Beginner’s Guide to Turntables & Hi–Fi *READ 1st PAGE BEFORE POSTING NEW THREADS / BASIC QUESTIONS*

[RowBearToe]

Are you dead-set on new? I'd advise against the A-S301/501 choice. It's by no means a bad amplifier, but the preamp is pretty lacking and I think you'll feel the desire to upgrade it quick (speaking from experience with an A-S500). For the same price used you can get a hell of a deal on some really get integrated amps that will last much longer down your upgrade tier.

 

I'm planning on grabbing a Cambridge Azur 551 or 651 pre-amp (thanks for the suggestion allenh!). Just curious, would you still advise against the A-S301/501 if I'm using a pre-amp? I'm still looking at the used options, but was curious of your thoughts?

[sdike]

Hi!

I saw the thread on the U-turn Pluto and the comparison to the Schiit and have heard such good things about the Cambridge Azur 551 and I'm torn on which to choose- Besides the 40$ ish price difference factor, they both seem like good choices. 

[Guest]

Grabbing the H/K today. I'll post a picture or two once it's up and running. I need to find more info on the cart mounted on it, since I remembered he had it tracking at 2.5 grams the store, which seems high.

[xxsilence]

I'm planning on grabbing a Cambridge Azur 551 or 651 pre-amp (thanks for the suggestion allenh!). Just curious, would you still advise against the A-S301/501 if I'm using a pre-amp? I'm still looking at the used options, but was curious of your thoughts?

 

I don't think there's really a value to that, honestly. The price of a 651p + a A-S501 puts you right up near the cost of a much better integrated amp combo. Funny enough I actually had a 651p paired with my A-S500 for a while - it's what I bought when I couldn't get over the bad preamp on the Yamaha. I liked the combo pretty well, it was definitely an improvement from just the A-S500, but I sold the 651p and A-S500 for enough to buy a used Rega Brio-R integrated, and that thing blows the other combo out of the water. 

 

So rather than buying a 551 or 651 and a Yamaha integrated, just step up and look for Cambridge's integrated amps. 

 

Here is a Cambridge Azur 840a that probably isn't far off what you were looking to pay for both, and looks like he's taking offers too.

 

http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649191667-cambridge-audio-azur-840a-v2-integrated-amplifierblack/

 

Edit: or if you can stretch your budget a bit, this Creek 50A v2 is an INCREDIBLE sounding integrated amp at the price. I liked it more than the Brio-R by just a bit, but couldn't find a good deal on one used when I was looking since the v2 was so new at the time. 

 

http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649225755-creek-evolution-50a-v2/

 

2nd Edit: I got my Brio-R used for about $500, for some perspective. I would have stretched up to about 600 if I had to, and would have been willing to spend about 700 for the Evo 50a V2. Keep an eye out for a Brio-R as well, they don't pop up as often but damn do I really love mine at the price. By far the best sonic upgrade I've noticed in my system was that transition.

[Guest]

Anyone ID this cartridge without me having to take if off?

 

http://i.imgur.com/IeME7mn.jpg

[xxsilence]

Anyone ID this cartridge without me having to take if off?

 

http://i.imgur.com/IeME7mn.jpg

 

Huh...I mean the markings imply it's probably one of the AT-20 series, but I've never seen one that isn't some shade of gold. I'm confused. 

[xxsilence]

Think I found it, AT-20SS. 

 

Edit: Here, scroll down to the 20SS and it looks like yours. I've never seen the "SS" and there's not a lot of info out, but I think it has to be it, given the limited number of AT stuff with a "2" in the model number. http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_database.php?m=Audio%20Technica&sort=2&t=mm&Search=Search&mod=&ovlo=&ovhi=&sty=&stid=&dclo=&dchi=&can=&masslo=&masshi=&notes=&prlo=&prhi=&page=50

[Guest]

Think I found it, AT-20SS. 

 

Edit: Here, scroll down to the 20SS and it looks like yours. I've never seen the "SS" and there's not a lot of info out, but I think it has to be it, given the limited number of AT stuff with a "2" in the model number. http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_database.php?m=Audio%20Technica&sort=2&t=mm&Search=Search&mod=&ovlo=&ovhi=&sty=&stid=&dclo=&dchi=&can=&masslo=&masshi=&notes=&prlo=&prhi=&page=50

 

I was thinking that or a 2013/2011. I think I'm going to toss my AT120E on it now, since I can't find much info on tracking force and such on this one. It looks like it has a generic stylus right now, just green with no markings.

[xxsilence]

I was thinking that or a 2013/2011. I think I'm going to toss my AT120E on it now, since I can't find much info on tracking force and such on this one. It looks like it has a generic stylus right now, just green with no markings.

 

It looks like it might have this stylus on it? http://www.lpgear.com/product/ATS0020EU.html

[Guest]

Very similar. It's that or a cheap ebay one. I have it tracking at 1.5 grams now, and it sounds great. They had it at 2.5 in the store, which I thought seemed really high. I have no clue what type of alignment to use when installing a new cart. According to the owners manual, it looks like it came with a protractor. 

 

I'm playing cheap LP right now, just to test it out. It's going to take some getting used to with the suspension on the table.

 

Edit: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OS7VO2Y?colid=ZRJFVK052T7B&coliid=I2FMBG41LNTAEC&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pd_S_ttl

 

How well do these work? Every time I try to print one out, I can't get the center hole even enough for it to be accurate. '

 

Edit 2: After closer inspection, after a record sounded a it off, it looks like the stylus is bent, so I really need to change it to the 120E.

[allenh]

I'd try and get a genuine AT for it. I have an AT2002VE which I got new old stock a few years ago and it's a very competent cartridge but when I tried a copy stylus in it then it just became average.

 

Yours looks very similar but the label on mine is gold but are you sure yours is not a 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004?

[Guest]

I'm going to take it off tonight after work, and find out exactly what model it is so I can decide if I want to keep it or not.

 

Edit: I also forgot to mention, I took the headshell off and tried to take the stylus off, but it would not budge at all. Who know how long it was on there. I'm going to toss the 120E on it tonight, once I figure out how to properly cut the hole for the alignment protractors off VE.

[RowBearToe]

That sort of restricts you then, generally anything new with a built in phono stage will be average at best or have a poor phono stage and that's more true with 2nd hand amps you would be buying that are within the last 10 or 15 years. Older than that is a different story but then you are getting into the realms of stuff that might need a bit of work.

 

There are exceptions of course but these will be lots of money so new or nearly new with the budget you have you are looking at the bottom of the range mass produced Japanese major manufacturer stuff if it has a built in phono stage

 

If you were in the UK it would be easy and I would say an Audiolab 8000A or a Musical Fidelity B1 but that side of the Atlantic they will be big bucks and probably about 2 or 3 times what you want to spend and 4 or 5 times what you could get them for here.

 

 

I don't think there's really a value to that, honestly. The price of a 651p + a A-S501 puts you right up near the cost of a much better integrated amp combo. Funny enough I actually had a 651p paired with my A-S500 for a while - it's what I bought when I couldn't get over the bad preamp on the Yamaha. I liked the combo pretty well, it was definitely an improvement from just the A-S500, but I sold the 651p and A-S500 for enough to buy a used Rega Brio-R integrated, and that thing blows the other combo out of the water. 

 

So rather than buying a 551 or 651 and a Yamaha integrated, just step up and look for Cambridge's integrated amps. 

 

Here is a Cambridge Azur 840a that probably isn't far off what you were looking to pay for both, and looks like he's taking offers too.

 

http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649191667-cambridge-audio-azur-840a-v2-integrated-amplifierblack/

 

Edit: or if you can stretch your budget a bit, this Creek 50A v2 is an INCREDIBLE sounding integrated amp at the price. I liked it more than the Brio-R by just a bit, but couldn't find a good deal on one used when I was looking since the v2 was so new at the time. 

 

http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649225755-creek-evolution-50a-v2/

 

2nd Edit: I got my Brio-R used for about $500, for some perspective. I would have stretched up to about 600 if I had to, and would have been willing to spend about 700 for the Evo 50a V2. Keep an eye out for a Brio-R as well, they don't pop up as often but damn do I really love mine at the price. By far the best sonic upgrade I've noticed in my system was that transition.

 

Ok, now I'm confused haha The top post said to stay away from amps with a built in phono input because they are lower quality. So I thought I needed to go with both apre-amp and an amp. But that's not the case? If I get a higher quality amp with a built in phono input I should be good and not need a pre-amp?

[Tardcore]

Ok, now I'm confused haha The top post said to stay away from amps with a built in phono input because they are lower quality. So I thought I needed to go with both apre-amp and an amp. But that's not the case? If I get a higher quality amp with a built in phono input I should be good and not need a pre-amp?

 

I think at your price point, you're better off with an integrated amp with a built-in phono input assuming you're willing to shop around and go 2nd hand.  I bought a Marantz PM8004 for $500 shipped and I don't think I could improve the phono stage significantly without stepping up to the $200-$300 range.  If I had spent the same amount of money on a comparable phono preamp and some other integrated, I would be much worse off.

 

You can always add an outboard phono preamp later down the line.

[allenh]

There's no right or wrong answer really because with all hifi there are are a lot of generalities but also some exceptions and when you talk about a price range it will vary a lot depending on whether you are talking about brand new, nearly new or a bit older.

 

When it comes to new amps, in general amps like the Yamaha and other similar mid market Asian designed and built amps have very average sounding phono stages because in general they are a bit of an afterthought and thrown in because the customer suddenly wants them again so with those an off board one is generally an improvement. That said the Yamaha is probably the best of the bunch against similar products from Onkyo, Denon and Pioneer etc. and the Pioneer is probably a close 2nd.

 

But for amps where the phono stage was a bit more intentional in the design or the whole thing was just a bit more hifi then no an off board one until you get a bit higher up the food chain won't be an improvement.

 

If you go a bit older where the phono stage was a bit more essential then the chances are an on board one will be more than good enough to be starting with.

 

Your original questions were about the Yamaha and amps like it in the $300 range but of course if you go a bit higher up so you get into proper hifi territory then there are amps like the Rega's and Marantz that have perfectly good phono stages built in, I'm not sure the Cambridge range come with them built in as standard as they always used to be an option though.

[Guest]

To anyone who prints alignment protractors off VE or somewhere similar, what is the best way to get the hole cut our accurately? I tried a pin in the middle, just like it said to do, but when I try to ease it on the spindle the paper rips and it is not accurate. Maybe an exact knife cut in an "X" will work? I'd rather not have to pay for one, because of my stupidity, when they are free online.

[allenh]

I use a scalpel or other very sharp fine knife to cut out the circle. I cut the cross first then carefully cut the quarters of the circle

[Guest]

Sounds like a plan. Everything was much easier on the AT table, so this is like learning to do everything again. Will mount the 120E tonight, and hopefully figure out what cart is on it now and if I can get the stylus off. Some research shows a Loefgren alignment as working the best with the tonearm.

 

Edit: My next move, when I get paid next week, is some blue jeans interconnects for it and some new speaker cables. I'm thinking of upgrading my phono pre soon too, so I might sell my Mani and use the on-board for now until I can find/afford what I want. Those Vincent PHO 8's look tempting. I also want to grab a Grado to test out on it.

[Guest]

I'd try and get a genuine AT for it. I have an AT2002VE which I got new old stock a few years ago and it's a very competent cartridge but when I tried a copy stylus in it then it just became average.

 

Yours looks very similar but the label on mine is gold but are you sure yours is not a 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004?

 

I got the cart off, and stylus. It is a AT2011E. Any good Jico stylus for it? I can't find much info on it.

 

Edit: Just installed the AT120E cart. It sounds good. Hopefully it's aligned and tracking correctly. I need to get a digital scale, I don't trust the metal shure one I have. I dropped the stylus on the mat once, so hopefully I didn't damage it. I stress too much about doing such simple things. I might take it back to the shop Saturday and have them check it.

[Guest]

I know someone was interested in the Rega Brio 3 intergrated, looks like it is onsale on LPGear.

 

http://www.lpgear.com/product/REGABRIO.html

[Tardcore]

I know someone was interested in the Rega Brio 3 intergrated, looks like it is onsale on LPGear.

 

http://www.lpgear.com/product/REGABRIO.html

 

That's a good find.  Rega gear tends to come at a bit of a premium in the US but at $450, it's right there with the more commonly available stuff.

[Guest]

It was listed on their daily specials, so it may just be for today if anyone is in the market for one in that price range. It really is a great deal on Rega gear.

[allenh]

I got the cart off, and stylus. It is a AT2011E. Any good Jico stylus for it? I can't find much info on it.

 

Edit: Just installed the AT120E cart. It sounds good. Hopefully it's aligned and tracking correctly. I need to get a digital scale, I don't trust the metal shure one I have. I dropped the stylus on the mat once, so hopefully I didn't damage it. I stress too much about doing such simple things. I might take it back to the shop Saturday and have them check it.

 

The 2000 numbered AT carts do seem to quite rare and lacking in available info but there are quite a few interchangeable styli for the bodies so I'd look into the AT options first.

[Guest]

The 2000 numbered AT carts do seem to quite rare and lacking in available info but there are quite a few interchangeable styli for the bodies so I'd look into the AT options first.

 

Some research shows they take stylus from the AT 10-12 bodies, so will look into that option. I'm going to enjoy the 120E for now, and wait until I have some money for a second headshell to find a better stylus for it. The one on it now looks really bent, which was easier to see once it was off.

[allenh]

Some research shows they take stylus from the AT 10-12 bodies, so will look into that option. I'm going to enjoy the 120E for now, and wait until I have some money for a second headshell to find a better stylus for it. The one on it now looks really bent, which was easier to see once it was off.

 

Check the anti skate then as too much anti skate over a long period will cause that, some arms will do it with too little but that's usually down to the quality of the arm bearings more than anything else.