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Labor Unions


jhook
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Are you in one? Do you hate them? Do you want to be in one? Discuss.

 

They belong in dangerous occupations, they do not belong in minimum wage jobs that push you below minimum wage with the mandatory union dues.  Oh, and then when you actually want to talk to them about something:

 

"You're a temporary worker, you don't qualify for union benefits"

 

"Oh, well I'll talk to my employer about removing the dues off my paycheck then, I've been paying them this whole time"

 

"No, you have to pay the dues"

 

"... I have to pay the dues and I can't use the union?"

 

"Yes"

 

"..."

 

Then when I quit I kept getting mail from them, so I called them:

 

"Hey, you keep sending me mail, but I quit a few months ago"

 

"You're still part of the union even if you quit"

 

"Well I'd like to opt out then"

 

"You can't"

 

"So you're going to keep sending me mail?"

 

"Yes, and please update your address if you move"

 

"..."

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do you think your job would be better non-unionized? serious question, not trolling or anything. does the union provide you with the necessary equipment and protection on the job in your CBA?

No, the company provides all that. I couldn't go either way because I don't know what it'd be like working without the union. I just feel like they never get our guys' backs when they need them. We don't even have sick leave. People get fired all the time or placed on probation for ridiculous reasons and the I don't see anyone fighting for them. If someone goes to an investigation the only representation they get is a co-worker who handles that craft's "needs" per that shift, which isn't much beyond giving answers to questions in the rule book depending on how much they care. We have some good guys handling that stuff but more often then not it's someone who is only doing it for the pay differential who doesn't care about your well being whatsoever.

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There's good and there's bad. The modern labor movement is paying the price for the sins of the past, but I think with some changes they will become more relevant as more people end up in manual labor jobs and more state legislatures do everything they can to undermine the working class.

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No, the company provides all that. I couldn't go either way because I don't know what it'd be like working without the union. I just feel like they never get our guys' backs when they need them. We don't even have sick leave. People get fired all the time or placed on probation for ridiculous reasons and the I don't see anyone fighting for them. If someone goes to an investigation the only representation they get is a co-worker who handles that craft's "needs" per that shift, which isn't much beyond giving answers to questions in the rule book depending on how much they care. We have some good guys handling that stuff but more often then not it's someone who is only doing it for the pay differential who doesn't care about your well being whatsoever.

 

yeah, I would hope they would, but is it dictated by the CBA?

 

yeah that sounds like a bad local rep for your union, has anyone ever filed a complaint with the state chapter or national about it? 

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They belong in dangerous occupations, they do not belong in minimum wage jobs that push you below minimum wage with the mandatory union dues.  Oh, and then when you actually want to talk to them about something:

 

"You're a temporary worker, you don't qualify for union benefits"

 

"Oh, well I'll talk to my employer about removing the dues off my paycheck then, I've been paying them this whole time"

 

"No, you have to pay the dues"

 

"... I have to pay the dues and I can't use the union?"

 

"Yes"

 

"..."

 

Then when I quit I kept getting mail from them, so I called them:

 

"Hey, you keep sending me mail, but I quit a few months ago"

 

"You're still part of the union even if you quit"

 

"Well I'd like to opt out then"

 

"You can't"

 

"So you're going to keep sending me mail?"

 

"Yes, and please update your address if you move"

 

"..."

 

labor laws in canada and the US differ some, as in the US we have Right-to-work States, which are states that prevent unions from signing agreements with employers that require employees to pay union dues, basically stripping unions of their funding, which makes it increasingly difficult to function/operate.  I believe we're up to 23 states that are RTW STates, all are States that lean right in elections, except for the State of Michigan.  RTW legislation is incredibly damaging to the labor movement.  I understand your frustration with paying union dues, I worked 3 years in grocery making $5.15/hr, paying dues on top of that in the late 90's/early 2000's. 

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If you feel like your local is taking advantage of you and others in the union, go above them and file a complaint. You have to take a stand or you will continue to be dicked over. You complain now but without the union you would be screwed. The guys who complain the most here are the ones who never show up to meetings or vote. Get involved its the least you can do.

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The Simpsons: Last Exit to Springfield (1993)

 

Waif: You can't treat the working man this way! One of these days we'll form a union, and get the fair and equitable treatment we deserve! Then we'll go too far, and become corrupt and shiftless, and the Japanese will eat us alive!

 

Burns' Grandfather: The Japanese? Those sandal-wearing goldfish tenders? Ha ha! Bosh! Flimshaw!

 

Mr. Burns: Oh, if only we'd listened to that young man, instead of walling him up in the abandoned coke oven.

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If you feel like your local is taking advantage of you and others in the union, go above them and file a complaint. You have to take a stand or you will continue to be dicked over. You complain now but without the union you would be screwed. The guys who complain the most here are the ones who never show up to meetings or vote. Get involved its the least you can do.

 

well thats not really fair, you and I dont know that about any of the people in the thread

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Yes, I am a proud union member. While I don't always agree with some of the decisions that my union makes, I still feel they are an important entity. Those who feel that unions have outlasted their worth haven't really taken into account what unions have historically done for workers in this country and other countries. Even if you're not in a union but work in a state that supports unions---you're better off than if you live in a state that doesn't support unions. 

 

If we abolish unions---you can kiss the middle class goodbye. We will become a country of rich and poor and guess where you fit in on that scale.

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If we abolish unions---you can kiss the middle class goodbye. We will become a country of rich and poor and guess where you fit in on that scale.

 

I entirely disagree.  Except for literally a month while I worked at that grocery store I've never been part of a union, and I am very much middle class.

 

I'm quite capable of working hard, advocating for myself, and securing a steady job that meets my needs.  Yes, I've been unemployed, yes I've been laid off before, multiple times.

 

While I see the need for unions in dangerous jobs, when it comes to the average job they are not needed.  They can be advantageous to the employee if the union is run fairly and efficiently run.  However, as some examples in this thread, often they are bloated or even advocating more for the employer rather than the employee. 

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I entirely disagree.  Except for literally a month while I worked at that grocery store I've never been part of a union, and I am very much middle class.

 

I'm quite capable of working hard, advocating for myself, and securing a steady job that meets my needs.  Yes, I've been unemployed, yes I've been laid off before, multiple times.

 

While I see the need for unions in dangerous jobs, when it comes to the average job they are not needed.  They can be advantageous to the employee if the union is run fairly and efficiently run.  However, as some examples in this thread, often they are bloated or even advocating more for the employer rather than the employee. 

 

Unions ensure that the middle class exists. They fight for fair wages and benefits---without them, where would we be? Look at recent attacks on teachers and what has happened in New Orleans. Watch what happens to quality of life when unions are abolished. Look what unions have accomplished over the years and how we all benefit from their existence. Paid anything, 40 hour work week, overtime, benefits, safety, due process---thank a fucking union.

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Unions ensure that the middle class exists. They fight for fair wages and benefits---without them, where would we be? Look at recent attacks on teachers and what has happened in New Orleans. Watch what happens to quality of life when unions are abolished. Look what unions have accomplished over the years and how we all benefit from their existence. Paid anything, 40 hour work week, overtime, benefits, safety, due process---thank a fucking union.

 

Unions have a time and place. Unions are not what they used to be and it's unfortunate. The political agenda gets in the way most of the time and most Unions end up hurting everyone involved. My grandmother was a public school teacher and did not always agree with the things her Union faught for - especially when they would force her to go on strike at the expensive fo the children's education. She felt they created an environment where the children's education was always being put at risk each time the Union got cranky and for those who genuinely CARED about doing their job, it was very upseting and disruptive.

 

Not only that but how can the Unions demand higher pay for teachers when the tax payers are having a hard time demanding profficient teachers who can educate our children?

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Unions ensure that the middle class exists. They fight for fair wages and benefits---without them, where would we be? Look at recent attacks on teachers and what has happened in New Orleans. Watch what happens to quality of life when unions are abolished. Look what unions have accomplished over the years and how we all benefit from their existence. Paid anything, 40 hour work week, overtime, benefits, safety, due process---thank a fucking union.

 

I have 40 hours a week (or more), awesome benefits, good quality of life.  No union.  To say that unions are needed to provide that is a crutch.

 

If you reread, I'm not saying unions aren't good sometimes, but to make such a blanket statement is just simply false.

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You could make a convincing argument that unions helped to create and support the American middle class, and though more contentious, you could further argue that organized labor's declining influence has kept in step with growing income disparity and suppressed wages and benefits the last few decades.

Many of the benefits people have these days came because someone with political clout fought for them. It's easy to take that for granted. There are industries in which companies offer benefits to compete for talent. There are even companies that treat workers like an asset to be leveraged, and not just costs to be controlled. Unions can be a good thing for those industries and companies that do not.

Not all companies dislike dealing with unions. There are benefits for some that deal positively with their unions. There are also companies that would rather clean up their acts than have their workers unionize, and those workers see an indirect benefit.

Ineffective and corrupt unions are just as bad as companies that mistreat their workers. And for that, there is no excuse.

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Not all companies dislike dealing with unions. There are benefits for some that deal positively with their unions. There are also companies that would rather clean up their acts than have their workers unionize, and those workers see an indirect benefit.

Ineffective and corrupt unions are just as bad as companies that mistreat their workers. And for that, there is no excuse.

 

 

This is the most balance opinion I've heard so far.  It's supposed to be a check and balance system when it works right.  Often larger corporations could use the help of a union to essentially act as a mediator.  And the threat of unionization is very real motivator.  Ultimately I feel that ideally the company should clean up their act and enact an effective a fair business model that develops positive relationships with their own employees.  I think it's probably a better thing in the long run if the employee knows and trusts that the company they work for has their best interests in mind, not just the bottom line.  It usually creates more loyalty and buy-in to the company goals if this can be accomplished without a union.

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Unions have a time and place. Unions are not what they used to be and it's unfortunate. The political agenda gets in the way most of the time and most Unions end up hurting everyone involved. My grandmother was a public school teacher and did not always agree with the things her Union faught for - especially when they would force her to go on strike at the expensive fo the children's education. She felt they created an environment where the children's education was always being put at risk each time the Union got cranky and for those who genuinely CARED about doing their job, it was very upseting and disruptive.

 

Not only that but how can the Unions demand higher pay for teachers when the tax payers are having a hard time demanding profficient teachers who can educate our children?

 

It's unfortunate that you buy into political spin regarding the proficiency of teachers. Granted, there are some bad teachers but the good teachers outweigh the bad ones by a landslide. You have to understand that there's a huge movement that wants to make education profitable. How do you do that? You keep salaries low and pensions nonexistent by creating an environment where no person would want to teach more than a few years. This is accomplished by painting teachers as the enemy and by tying teachers' longevity to standardized testing outcomes. Is the gluttony of standardized testing helping to better educate kids or helping to push teachers out of the profession? We're all a bunch of uneducated, lazy motherfuckers who are killing the economy because of our bloated pensions. Really?  Funny how Wall Street gets a free pass and educators are the devil.

 

Because of this climate---your grandmother would thank her lucky stars that she has union support if she was teaching today.

 

Could you please give me an example where unions hurt everyone involved? 

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I have 40 hours a week (or more), awesome benefits, good quality of life.  No union.  To say that unions are needed to provide that is a crutch.

 

If you reread, I'm not saying unions aren't good sometimes, but to make such a blanket statement is just simply false.

 

good for you, but unions exist where your great work environment does not exist.  Unions start BECAUSE employees are over/under worked, have terrible benefits, poor quality of life, and the employer is not listening to their workers. 

 

we have a hospital here in Pittsburgh, UPMC, their employees, the orderlies, janitors, nurse aides, etc requested raises over and over, never really got anything.  employees went to the newspapers to complain in op eds, how they cant afford groceries so they go to food banks in other neighborhoods to get enough food to eat, and even a dollar raise would help them out greatly.  UPMC makes $2 BILLION a year.  you know how they responded?  They created a food bank for employees.  That same employee wrote back in another op ed saying how big of a slap in the face that was, that the reason they went to other neighborhoods to go to food banks was so their friends, co workres, familes WOULDNT KNOW THEY WERE STRUGGLING (which she said in her first op ed that by writing this she was exposing her struggles).  So the SEIU came in and has tried to unionize.  UPMC has fought it, fired and intimidated workres to keep the union out.  They were just charged with 19 unfair labor practices by the National Labor Relation Board and will have a court date in December with the federal judge.

 

now, you're telling me that these workers shouldnt need to unionize, shouldnt use that CRUTCH to get a living wage, benefits?  That they should just assume their employer will respect their wishes?  Maybe that works in Canada, but it doesnt really work in the US.

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I have 40 hours a week (or more), awesome benefits, good quality of life.  No union.  To say that unions are needed to provide that is a crutch.

 

If you reread, I'm not saying unions aren't good sometimes, but to make such a blanket statement is just simply false.

 

The mere reason you have those things is because of union influence. If you think that's not true then you're either naive or uneducated. Do your homework.

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