futures Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I don't know about XOJane supplying information to ONTD, but thank you for that information. I am absolutely not standing against him because he's a popular cis white male. Absolutely not. I am standing with the victim because it's the right thing to do and because I am a victim myself. & No, I absolutely would not be standing with him if he was a lower class poc musician. You don't know anything about what I stand for or why I stand for them, so please, let's not assume that I'm against white cis males just for the sake of the "lesser" gender and/or race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Logan Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Yeah, the general population probably sided with him for shitty reasons. But it seems that you're doing just the opposite - standing AGAINST him because he is a popular - cis gendered - white male. If he was a lower class poc musician you'd be saying the accusations against him were outlandish and racist. Whoa...whoa...whoa. This was NEVER about race. The fact of the matter is, Oberst is incredibly privileged and therefore a lot more people will side with him without seeing the facts. That's all that was being said. Rape is rape regardless of race. Do not bring race into this. futures 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonesomexloveus Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 i don't understand why anyone would be upset with people investigating this girl's accusations. all people are doing is trying to verify (or disprove) the likelihood of her story. you and i have no idea what did or didn't happen. all i know is that if a guy got into an elevator alone with me and i decided i didn't like that person, i could accuse him of rape and he could be convincted and go to jail solely on my word alone in the state of PA. whether it's right or not, a rape accusation is something that needs to be investigated before you potentially ruin the rest of someone's life. do i sympathize with the victim? absolutely. but as someone whose family member was falsely accused of sexual assault, it's made me not jump to conclusions and brand someone a rapist immediately without more supporting evidence. one problem is that there's no repurcussions for making false accusations in this country, so people think it's acceptable to do, thus making it that much worse for people who actually were the victim of sexual assault. Hobbes and billya 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futures Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Investigating the accusations is what should happen, but what actually happens is people discrediting the victim, calling her names, making excuses in defense of the accused as to why something this horrible happened to her, etc. Meanwhile, the media (not even police) ask for a statement from Conor and his publicist says "Nope, false" and we're supposed to put it to bed. People are much more likely to say "she was probably asking for it" or in this thread's case "she was dumb for posting about it" rather than say "I think the police should get involved and investigate this like they would any other crime." (Which, in this thread, someone claims we shouldn't do for all sexual harassment accusations.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronniegwilliams Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 You do realize that false reports of rape are well below the national average for all false reported crimes right? Are you getting up in arms about the false reports of hit and runs, arson, murders? Those are falsely reported at a much higher rate then rape is. If I am accused of burning your house, people dont dig into your life and see every possible mistake, lie, poor choice, dating history, and how you dress, they just come after me and prove that I did or didnt do it. However, if I am accused of raping you, everyone goes after you and your life and tear you down. Yes, I am aware that the number of false reports for other crimes outranks those of rape. The point I was making supports what you seemed I get upset about within my statement. I believe it's ridiculous that because a person is accused of rape (prior to be proven guilty) their lives are torn apart completely, sometimes so much so that when proven innocent there isn't much of a life left afterward. lonesomexloveus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catalinacaper Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I just find it a bit comical really, in a cynical way, how judgemental and assuming you are being about Conor Oberst. You don't know him any better than you know the accuser or the facts of the story. When you want to treat both parties equally, maybe I'll care what you say. Just to be clear that's in reference to Futurekills and loganeatsdirt. You can stop referring to me anonymously. You're already using my words out of context. Also I should say that using the word "victim" assumes the accused's guilt. We don't live in a country that does that. You need to stop. seamoney 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hipsterasfolk Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 done goof'd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Logan Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Siiiiiiiggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhh. AlexH. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catalinacaper Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I'm convinced that no matter what I actually type here, you will construe it as me not taking the side of a general, nonspecific rape victim rather than me expressing my opinion about this one specific story, with specific details. I never even actually said a word regarding whether I believe the story to be true or not, if you read my original post. All I'm claiming is that there are better channels to seek support about sensitive topics like this than unanonymously on an internet forum, and it is no shock to me that the same internet that has time to post pictures of cats that look like Hitler has time to investigate some girls claims about being raped by Conor Oberst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futures Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I'm convinced that no matter what I actually type here, you will construe it as me not taking the side of a general, nonspecific rape victim rather than me expressing my opinion about this one specific story, with specific details. I never even actually said a word regarding whether I believe the story to be true or not, if you read my original post. All I'm claiming is that there are better channels to seek support about sensitive topics like this than unanonymously on an internet forum, and it is no shock to me that the same internet that has time to post pictures of cats that look like Hitler has time to investigate some girls claims about being raped by Conor Oberst. You cannot tell someone where to seek support for something tragic that has happened to them. I've already explained why this person did what she did and why she did it. But again - she does not have to gain your approval for where she decides to seek support. You can't fault her - or anyone - for that. I will continue to call her the victim, because that's what she is. If it's not to rape, then it's to cyber bullying. No matter how you slice it, she is a victim at this point in time. Stop. Discrediting. Women. Stop discrediting women for speaking out against their rapists no matter who they are. You're only making future victims more and more scared from trying to get justice from what has happened to them. Also, I never judged Conor. I never shamed him or called him names. THAT is the difference between how you are seeing this and how Logan & I are seeing this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Logan Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 All of the responses made weren't directed at your comments either. No one is making personal jabs at you, dude. However, who cares how she decided to deal with this? She did it to help someone else/to seek support herself. A very important thing Ashton said is "She was helping someone else cope with a very similar issue. Did anyone here read the original post? The woman was abused by a popular musician very recently and was afraid to post his name. This victim here posted Conor's name out of support and to prove that he doesn't hold that power over her anymore." I'm not against Connor, I'm not sitting here going "wow I hope you go to jail for these awful things you did." Because you're right, I do not know him personally and I don't know that he did these things. The same way that it currently has not been proven that the victim is in fact, not a victim. That doesn't mean I'm going to turn my back on someone who was seeking support because I'm not 110% sure it happened. If it turns out she wasn't a victim, we all move the fuck on. But don't sit here and tell someone how to feel and how to manage their feelings by what you feel is appropriate. When women started getting treated on the same level as men, that's when I'll start treating both sides in these situations as equals. futures and sacredheart 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseydave77 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I lost my virginity to a sexual assault. Trust me as a guy it was confusing. Being in the 90s it took me going to four separate therapists before I found one that could help me cope. I was assigned to a rape counselor and couldn't understand why at first then fired her because I thought I was taking her time away from people that needed her attention. I get wickedly depressed in the winter to this day since that's when it happened. I remember shaking in the freezing cold in my parent's driveway as I tried to explain what happened and having them tell me to stop since they couldn't help me. Trust me, professionals couldn't understand nor could my parents even let me finish my sentences. I bottled it up inside. I told my wife last year for the first time and have never uttered another word about it to her again. If I told people the circumstances and the individual they would never believe me. Shit, I bet half of you can't even believe what I wrote here hence why I've never given a name, date or place and never will - it's always been my cross to bare whether I wanted it to be or not. This is a beyond confusing experience. I nearly killed myself in the aftermath, failed to have professionals or family manage to help me and spent years trying to figure out my identity. So when I see these things come up and people ask "Why wait so Long?" I understand the question but you can't possibly understand what it feels like in the direct aftermath, the year after, the decade after etc. It's winter again and I've been lost in thinking of my lost years again, it comes without fail as I feel the sting of the cold like I did in my parents driveway all that time ago. A couple days ago I was looking at my kid swearing I would protect him so he wouldn't ever feel what I have. I won't judge her. I don't have enough details to judge him. But I can understand why it might be scattershot. hippielauryn, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, lonesomexloveus and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catalinacaper Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Say what you want, but I reserve the right to say that if you honestly believe that whatever you post on the internet is free from judgement, then you do not live in the real world. Not that anyone DESERVES judgement. But it's going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Logan Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 No one here is claiming that the world is perfect and judgement free. But you nailed it, not everyone deserves judgement. Just because you're free to tear people apart on the internet and they should know better/expect it, does that mean you should? Does that mean people shouldn't call you out when they believe your judgement is uncalled for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedeni Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I lost my virginity to a sexual assault. Trust me as a guy it was confusing. Being in the 90s it took me going to four separate therapists before I found one that could help me cope. I was assigned to a rape counselor and couldn't understand why at first then fired her because I thought I was taking her time away from people that needed her attention. I get wickedly depressed in the winter to this day since that's when it happened. I remember shaking in the freezing cold in my parent's driveway as I tried to explain what happened and having them tell me to stop since they couldn't help me. Trust me, professionals couldn't understand nor could my parents even let me finish my sentences. I bottled it up inside. I told my wife last year for the first time and have never uttered another word about it to her again. If I told people the circumstances and the individual they would never believe me. Shit, I bet half of you can't even believe what I wrote here hence why I've never given a name, date or place and never will - it's always been my cross to bare whether I wanted it to be or not. This is a beyond confusing experience. I nearly killed myself in the aftermath, failed to have professionals or family manage to help me and spent years trying to figure out my identity. So when I see these things come up and people ask "Why wait so Long?" I understand the question but you can't possibly understand what it feels like in the direct aftermath, the year after, the decade after etc. It's winter again and I've been lost in thinking of my lost years again, it comes without fail as I feel the sting of the cold like I did in my parents driveway all that time ago. A couple days ago I was looking at my kid swearing I would protect him so he wouldn't ever feel what I have. I won't judge her. I don't have enough details to judge him. But I can understand why it might be scattershot. Wow thank you for sharing that. I am sure that was tough to write. As guys we are told to be tough and such and when something like that happens no one believes you or thinks it is possible because you are a guy. I definitely think this girl is a victim. Whether she is a victim of rape I don't know but she is at least a victim of cyber-bullying. sonsofvipers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catalinacaper Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Wow thank you for sharing that. I am sure that was tough to write. As guys we are told to be tough and such and when something like that happens no one believes you or thinks it is possible because you are a guy. I definitely think this girl is a victim. Whether she is a victim of rape I don't know but she is at least a victim of cyber-bullying. From Melbz, you know all about the rape culture. That town is the worst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catalinacaper Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 No one here is claiming that the world is perfect and judgement free. But you nailed it, not everyone deserves judgement. Just because you're free to tear people apart on the internet and they should know better/expect it, does that mean you should? Does that mean people shouldn't call you out when they believe your judgement is uncalled for? Nope, and I'm perfectly okay with that. In fact I regret in my haste calling her "dumb". I don't take back my use of the word "naive". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanRees Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 http://www.punknews.org/article/54300/conor-oberst-files-lawsuit-against-rape-accuser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonesomexloveus Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 im not entirely sure what he's trying to do here? draw more attention to the situation? because that's what he's doing. not sure how, 10 years later, one can prove whether this did or did not happen, which i'm assuming is needed to prove libel. it's not slandering someone if an assault actually occured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futures Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Nobody without multiple recording contracts will be able to pay up $1million for anything, let alone a lawsuit that will just prove that power wins above anything else. Also, everything in that article about how she shared her story and took it down is false. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billya Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Big ups to them for spelling his name one way in the title and another in the article. robotfactory 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 fuck conner oberst, that is NOT how you raise money for charities for domestic violence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3arl Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I mean he does have a decent argument for the lawsuit. He's coming out with a new record soon, and anyone who googles his name will see "Connor Oberst Rape" headlines, which could definitely affect album sales (let alone reputation). $1 million just seems like an arbitrary large number to ensure that it is settled out of court. And since he's donating the money, I really don't have a problem with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonesomexloveus Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I mean he does have a decent argument for the lawsuit. He's coming out with a new record soon, and anyone who googles his name will see "Connor Oberst Rape" headlines, which could definitely affect album sales (let alone reputation). $1 million just seems like an arbitrary large number to ensure that it is settled out of court. And since he's donating the money, I really don't have a problem with it. wining a lawsuit won't get those results out of a google search. this just increases the exposure he's getting for this instead of his music. how is he going to prove libel in court? that's what i don't understand here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futures Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 $1 million just seems like an arbitrary large number to ensure that it is settled out of court. And since he's donating the money, I really don't have a problem with it. See the following: fuck conner oberst, that is NOT how you raise money for charities for domestic violence It's a slap in the face to people who are victims of DV. So many times are victims scared out of standing their ground by threats such as lawsuits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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