Mutemath S/T does anyone know if this ever going to be re-released?

[copelandkid]

9 minutes ago, Kanye West said:

 

*eye twitch*

 

That last comment referring to what I said.

Just because you HAVE money doesn't mean you should spend it like a moron. I enjoy cheesecake. Would I buy a slice for $40? No. 

smdh just save your money. any moron can do that!!!!!!!

[TFP]

39 minutes ago, copelandkid said:

i mean, the pre-emptive allusions by MM's management to flippers  suggests they're aware this product will get flipped – they just want a bigger share of the total pie. only way to do that is to charge a higher initial price. which is ironic, because pressing 2-3k and/or charging a REASONABLE price would probably mean flipping would be less successful as more folks would've managed to afford a copy at the outset.

This is what I thought of while reading this thread earlier. Why didn't they just go this route?

[dreamover]

2 hours ago, lindsaymusic said:

Hey everyone - since clearly the price tag is an issue for most fans here, I wanted to break down the situation for you all.

 

Manufacturing 180gram vinyl is expensive, it's more expensive when you have a double LP.

ya think?

 

It continues to get more expensive when you spend nearly a year negotiating getting the rights to press this vinyl from the master owners (Warner Bros).

Sounds like it was a bad record deal to begin with and ya'll are bad at negotiating. 

 

 That means legal fees, significant override royalties and beyond that will leave the band with very little net on this release.

Why would releasing this album increase override royalties? 

 

Not to mention the percentages the merch store takes off the top.
oh come on. 

 

So, I apologize if this somehow offends you, but we're doing what we can to not take this re-issue at a loss financially.
It's hard for me to imagine the manufacturing could cost more than $15,000-$20,000 which is a high estimate. If the other costs associated with this release (royalties, running an online shop [ha!]) tally up over $50,000 to make sure it's not a financial loss, someone is really horrible at their job.

Our "Changes" LP is all over Ebay because there are people who buy $20 LP's and turn around and sell them for $250 (as you have all seen).  We're trying to deter that in this situation.

This is asinine. Screw most of the band's fans that buy the record with an overpriced release so a few don't make a big profit. It sounds like it's not about principle at all, just the bottom line.

5

 

 

I cannot think of one $60 double LP that stayed $60, but I can think of tons of 180 gram, tip-on-sleeve, premium LP's that were under $30.

 

Edited November 30, 2016 by dreamover

[THE_James_Champ]

I don't do this often, but you get a +1 @dreamover

 

Edited November 30, 2016 by THE_James_Champ

[THE_James_Champ]

18 minutes ago, dreamover said:

 

I cannot think of one $60 double LP that stayed $60, but I can think of tons of 180 gram, tip-on-sleeve, premium LP's that were under $30.

 

I also agree with this. WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON???

[copelandkid]

30 minutes ago, dreamover said:

So, I apologize if this somehow offends you, but we're doing what we can to not take this re-issue at a loss financially.
It's hard for me to imagine the manufacturing could cost more than $15,000-$20,000 which is a high estimate. If the other costs associated with this release (royalties, running an online shop [ha!]) tally up over $50,000 to make sure it's not a financial loss, someone is really horrible at their job.

or someone is ensuring a fatter take-home from their cut of the profit

[THE_James_Champ]

 

This seems more likely than "trying to stop insane flipping", @copelandkid

 

Edited December 1, 2016 by THE_James_Champ

[dreamover]

2 hours ago, lindsaymusic said:

Man, this is such a bummer.  We're trying to fill a hole that Warner on it's own would not take the time to do.  Fans have been asking about this record and paying out the ass for it on Ebay for almost 10 years.  I spent nearly a year negotiating with their business affairs team to be allowed to do this.  

It sounds like this is your job. This reads like you expect something extra from the fans for your work. 

 

Guess what?

You're super condescending as far as representing the band goes.

 

There were a lot of stipulations - one being how much we had to pay them per copy

(this is normal)

 

ON TOP of our already insane override royalty

(irrelevant, in terms of this specific release. wouldn't that dictate the prices of everything the band sells now? Why is this different?)

 

and we were only allowed press 1,000 copies and could not distribute to retail.

this seems like a deal not worth negotiating. If you guys really had a metaphorical gun to your head by WB who said 'it's going to cost tens of thousands of dollars and you can only press 1,000'... I'm super curious how it took a year to come to such shitty terms. How did negotiations start? 10 copies for $1 million?

 

 This also does not take into consideration what it cost to recreate the packaging (because the original art files were lost)

this literally happens all the time with reissues. A lot of artwork is never even created with vinyl in mind.

 

the legal fees we incurred to make this happen,
???????

the year of work to put it together
time itself does not cost money.

and the split our e-commerce store will take off the top.
still grasping at straws. There's plenty of things in the store that aren't $75.

 

So, I think the bottom line here is that we're doing our best, trying to find ways to make happy that don't further eat into the band's pocket.
The bottom line is $75 is unreasonable for the product being sold. You are super condescending and defensive and it comes off as ignorant and unprofessional. There are plenty of people here who have manufactured vinyl and worked with major labels that know that this is ridiculous. 

They work really hard and I'm sorry if the price tag pisses you off but this is the best way for us to move forward and that's it.
It's a 10 year old record. I wouldn't worry about people being pissed off. I'd worry more about long-time fans of the band will feel taken advantage of and may think twice about buying the next album or attending the next tour date. It may seem trivial to you, but some people probably care.

 The negative feedback is really discouraging but you'll always find someone who thinks they know more/better than you.
When you make redundant arguments, it's really easy for people to feel like they know better than you.

 I'm sorry to the people that think the band is trying to "gouge" fans, as that's obviously the last thing we want to do.
Not as obvious as you think. Though, I think many will assume it's just business and the band is getting bad advice. Who knows?

It would be pretty heartbreaking to us all however, to have worked this hard, and see some dude on Ebay make all the money off it.
Here's the real issue.  The only thing heartbreaking about this is that someone got money that the band/management didn't. So to undercut some flippers (a small minority), the solution is to take the money from the majority, who in most cases are long-time supporters of the band. I don't, for a minute, believe that the overhead is expensive as you're suggesting. I think the real issues are more related to (1) the fact that the WB deal was shit, (2) the necessary profit must be larger than we'd expect for it to be worth it to the band. But that's why a band this size would normally press more than 1,000 units. 

 

 

[dreamover]

2 hours ago, highfives said:

This will be all over eBay for $250 no matter if you price it at $75 or $25.

I wouldn't be so sure. If there are 1,000 copies that are out there (I was always under the impression the original pressing was 500), 1,000 new copies at this ridiculous price will saturate the market quite a bit. There will be a few flippers that list it right away for a ridiculous price to attempt to drive the cost up, but buying a $75 record and expecting to flip it for a ton of money is a pretty dumb investment. With 1,000 new copies available to the public, no one will be paying $250 for a copy anymore. 

 

 

2 hours ago, copelandkid said:

the band currently has 270,000+ fans on facebook, allotting copies for .3% – i know vinyl isn't super popular in the grand scheme of things, but i'm sure MM could easily have moved 2-3k (3k being slightly over copies for 1% of the fanbase) at 1/3 of the current outlandish price.

I'd venture to guess that a majority of those fans have one mutemath release and it's a cd soundtrack from a  certain movie.

 

[dreamover]

52 minutes ago, THE_James_Champ said:

I don't do this often, but you get a +1 @dreamover

 

To be fair, I'm pretty sure I'm arguing the same point I was arguing before, when you decided you didn't care for my opinions. 

 

Perhaps you're evolving. 

 

[copelandkid]

7 minutes ago, dreamover said:

I'd venture to guess that a majority of those fans have one mutemath release and it's a cd soundtrack from a  certain movie.

 

Savage! But honestly, it may be that a lot of their fans, once v gung-ho on their sound, are now pretty dormant/disinterested, especially given the rather flat release with awkwardly-manifested commercial aspirations that was Vitals. Oh, and the remix album!!! TobyMac from 2003 called, he wants his business strategy back!

[dnl]

I wanna be mad, but really there are only 2 ways this will go:

1. People won't actually pay $75 for this, so the value will go down.

2. This sells out quickly and the inevitable re-re-press happens.

Either way, I'll just continue to wait on this record.

[dreamover]

.

Edited December 1, 2016 by dreamover

[dreamover]

13 minutes ago, dnl said:

I wanna be mad, but really there are only 2 ways this will go:

1. People won't actually pay $75 for this, so the value will go down.

2. This sells out quickly and the inevitable re-re-press happens.

Either way, I'll just continue to wait on this record.

 

 

I'll say this... I can't imagine spending $75 on a 10 year old record (or any record, for that matter) and ever thinking, "that was money well spent". 

[Fowty Dollaz]

So, I guess my wife is buying this? I thought I was the spender! Everyone meet Mrs. Sedendy Figh Dollaz!

[Vinyl Fury]

Holy shit. The shark has been jumped. 

 

Edited December 1, 2016 by Vinyl Fury

[SpazzyMcGee]

I do love mutemath. Vitals was a high point for 2015 and the tour they put on was phenomenal...but like I said, oof..

[highfives]

This reissue reminds me of the Lovedrug - Pretend You're Alive release.  

 

Everyone wanted it for a long time.  The band finally bites and makes it happen.  They charge way too much for it and piss off half their fan base.  The people in charge make a bunch of condescending, asinine excuses which further pissed off the fans and some of the "true" fans take up for the band and say "you guys are just assholes and want to be mad about something."  

 

Also, I guarantee we'll see these on eBay, on Friday.  They'll be listed for a shitty price, but that doesn't mean people will buy them.  Flippers won't make much money off of this UNLESS it sells out quickly.  Midnight is a weird time to drop it, so it should be around for most of the day, but who knows?

[copelandkid]

46 minutes ago, highfives said:

This reissue reminds me of the Lovedrug - Pretend You're Alive release.  

 

Everyone wanted it for a long time.  The band finally bites and makes it happen.  They charge way too much for it and piss off half their fan base. 

and lovedrug was never heard from again!

well, aside from the bleeding-heart MMers in that one FB group, i think the genpub is unaware that this might cost anywhere near $75. i'm expecting a lot more of a fuss once people start visiting the store, especially those stayin' up on the east coast. especially if the site crashes.

[highfives]

2 minutes ago, copelandkid said:

and lovedrug was never heard from again!

well, aside from the bleeding-heart MMers in that one FB group, i think the genpub is unaware that this might cost anywhere near $75. i'm expecting a lot more of a fuss once people start visiting the store, especially those stayin' up on the east coast. especially if the site crashes.

I used to love that band, but I swear, how they handled that whole thing soured me.  That and their last record...

[allenh]

6 hours ago, dreamover said:

I'll say this... I can't imagine spending $75 on a 10 year old record (or any record, for that matter) and ever thinking, "that was money well spent". 

I was thinking exactly the same, that and I can have a lie in tomorrow morning now

 

4 hours ago, copelandkid said:

 i think the genpub is unaware that this might cost anywhere near $75. i'm expecting a lot more of a fuss once people start visiting the store, especially those stayin' up on the east coast. especially if the site crashes.

Yep thought that as well.

I think there might be quite a few emotions going on when people arrive at the price on the site, I see the the emotional turmoil going something like:

 

How much?

 

Some milli seconds later

 

But I better get it or I never will.

 

Some more clicks later

 

WooHoo got it.

 

About 10 minutes later

 

I really shouldn't have bought that.

 

etc. etc.

 

They will be up on ebay and might already be being listed at extortionate prices that the odd soon to be skint idiot buys but I wonder like a few of these things if you won't see them for much less in a couple of weeks

[Giekorock]

I mean I don't really know what to believe. She also put on facebook that " I went through the numbers and the reality is, most of these types of re-pressing's sell for upwards of $60 at retail, and in this instance we are hoping this will deter people from scooping up copies to re-sell like the fucking scalpers they are. " I mean sure some bands may do it, but not most. This is just kinda sad seeing a fan base get taken advantage like this imo, cause yea people are going to buy it and are probably happy to and yea the band needs to make money. But at what cost I guess? Pissing off a ton of other fans who still can't afford it? Honestly I'd be less annoyed if it was just stated that "Hey this is what it costs, buy it or don't". I just don't like excuses. Maybe if it had insane packaging and was a boxset or something. But a plain 2XLP?  Naw

Edited December 1, 2016 by Giekorock

[The Vool]

It's stupid that this needs to be discussed in any way...$75 for a 2xLP is ridiculous and criminal! That's all to say.

 

That she took her time (probably calculated the hourly costs for her posts on top of all other costs for the record) and tried to explain how they came up with (a fictional numer) was nice...but it totally backfired because the argumentation (see all the posts above) is just plain stupid!

Edited December 1, 2016 by Sasan

[THE_James_Champ]

9 hours ago, Vinyl Fury said:

Holy shit. The shark has been jumped. 

 

[jmsmusic]

Well. I was going to buy it but, at $75 i think I'm going to give it a miss. Bummer.