RobSag

Maybe the 440 is better, but many people also say it's overly bright, which I wouldn't like. However, IGD is not a problem in 95% of the records I have, which must be a bit over a hundred. Right now I'm listening to the soundtrack of the movie "White Nights", a record I bought for $3, and it's not exactly in good shape, the groove noise along with pops and clicks is very audible. However, this records has zero IGD. And that's the case on almost every record since I bought the AT120ET, to the point where I'm much more hooked up on vinyl now than I was a week ago before I had discovered the AT120ET. There are just a few records that show some IGD (and even then it's much less than with any of the other carts I had in this TT and previous ones), for example Bruce Hornsby's "The Way It Is", but on most of them the last song sounds as good as the first. This of course can't be the case technically speaking because there's simply less information by the time the stylus reads the inner grooves, but to my ears it sounds just as good. I was blown away by the song "Thriller" in the album of the same name, not only there's no IGD, it has a sound quality that blows you away. Same with Huey Lewis' "Hip To Be Square" at the end of side A of "Fore!" and that is the case with many other records.

Well, it's what's recommended in the AT120ET manual. But like I said, I barely have any IGD since I installed this cart. It's just excellent. However, sometimes I have to set the tracking force a bit higher, because a few of these used records have those deformities that are not very gradual, but rather sudden, so it makes the arm kind of jump if left at 1.4. According to the manual, the tracking force can be set between 1.0 and 1.8, optimal being 1.4.

Thanks Allenh, the anti-skate is set to 2, which is what it says in the manual of the AT, but that is also considering the tracking force of the AT95E that comes with it, which is also 2. Does that mean that since the tracking force of the AT120ET is 1.4 I should set anti-skate to that as well?

Well, the heaviest records I have (and I don't know if they are 180g) are the two that make Foo Fighter's "Wasting Light", which I bought sealed brand new, but you'd be hard pressed to listen to any IGD on it even on a crappy turntable, because they only have three songs per side, actually two on the last side, and they are at 45 RPM. So I really don't know. I know that on most records I bought, which are cheap and used, I can't hear any IGD, or if I do, it's very faint. I can tell you this: Michael Jackson's "Thriller" the song, at the end of side A, sounds so perfect it that it could be the first song. And Huey Lewis & The News' "Hip To Be Square", also the last song of "Fore!" side A, same thing, it sounds unbelievable.

One thing I don't understand, since I got the AT120ET and aligned it, on most records I can't hear any IGD, only in a handful of them. So if it's possible to get rid of it almost completely, why is it that there is no standard on that? I mean, until I got the AT120ET, I assumed that IGD was a problem inherent to vinyl, but it's not as long as you have the right cart/stylus. Why is it that there isn't an ISO guideline or something like that to prevent it on every cart/stylus being sold?

Do you guys ever align the cartridge by ear? Meaning, moving it and testing the last song until you get an acceptable result? Because I've used the Technics Baerwald protractor, then the Stevenson protractor that is supposed to be perfect for my turntable, but I still get IGD. Then today I decided to play it by ear with Talking Heads' "True Stories", which is an album with rather bad IGD, if not the worst. But I twisted the cartridge bit by bit, not using any protractor, and I got it to a point where it sounded with less distortion than with the more scientific methods. This is with the AT95E cart, the Shure is already out and being packed for return. I ordered the AT120ET, mostly because I read from many people that it's about the best to minimize IGD, which is the only thing about vinyl that drives me up the wall.

Thanks for your replies, yes, the Shure is new so it's going back to Amazon for a refund, and then I'll order the AT120E, although I'm not sure yet, I will try to align my AT95E that came with the TT and see what kind of IGD I get. It sounds really good, and based on the first attempts at aligning it, it doesn't show a lot of IGD except with the worst records.

You're right, it seems a bit skewed so I did it again, this time without the headshell: 2° may not seem much, but it's clear that it's touching one side of the groove more than the other, so it's going back and I'm going to order the AT120E.

By the way, I think this Shure cart might be defective. When I was trying to align it, it seemed to me that the cantilever wasn't completely straight, so I set it upside down in a leveled place, set my DSLR to 200mm and then brought it into Lightroom and Photoshop to see it better. I corrected the lens profile in Lightroom, so in theory it shouldn't have any lens distortion, but I don't know for sure, it looks good to me. Well, as you can see, the cantilever and stylus are off 3.6° with the cart: So this means that it's touching one side of the groove more than the other side, and it's defective, right? I mean, shouldn't it be perfectly straight with the cart?

No, there's nothing on the reverse side, or in the manual about how it works. No, it has two points, I scanned it so you can see exactly how it is: The thing is, it doesn't matter how far or close I set the cart in the headshell, if I set it straight to the headshell, there is no way I can align it to the lines. I just tried again, and whether the art is all the way to the front, at the center, or rear, it just doesn't align to the lines unless I twist it. But then I think I saw that the cantilever wasn't exactly straight with the cart, although my eyes could be tricking me with something so small, and I don't have a good quality magnifying glass to check that properly, just a cheap plastic one. But if that's the case, then adjusting the cart straight to the lines would also be kind of useless, because in the end, what has to be perfectly straight is the cantilever, and unless I shrink down to a micron or so, or develop X-ray vision (to see through the headshell and cartridge) then how do I adjust that? This is giving me a headache.

One thing I noticed on two albums though, is that the first track has some weird noise on the right channel, but it could be because they had been played on bad turntables by their previous owners. I hadn't noticed that when playing them on the Denon, but it could be that I wasn't paying attention. I would be worried about it if the two new records I have had that problem, or if most of them had it, but it's not the case.

I would say pretty good, I'm not sure why they say this cart is lacking in highs, to me it sounds great. Inner groove distortion is still there on some albums, but I'm thinking that if the album was mastered like crap it's going to sound that way. I only have two brand new albums by Foo Fighters, both of which sound perfect from start to end, and my batch of about 40 used albums that I got in the past few days, it's hit and miss, some don't have any IGD, others a lot. The last song of side A of the St. Elmo's Fire soundtrack has a lame song that I'm pretty sure will be distorted even with the best audiophile cart/stylus. That's the worst case, the others are not so bad but still more or less noticeable depending on the album.

So the overhang can only be set with that gauge, not a protractor? I will get it, but what I'd like to know first is if it's normal to have the cartridge at an angle to the headshell, like mine is in the pictures I took.

Isn't setting overhang what the protractor is for? Basically I aligned it to the perpendicular lines, because this cart has like a rounded bottom, it's not easy to adjust using the Shure protractor, which only has lines in the direction of the cartridge. The other one, which I got from here: http://scouringthebins.blogspot.com/2013/03/tweaking-audio-technica-at-lp120.html also has perpendicular lines, and makes it easier.

OK, after a couple of hours of trying to fit those damn tiny screws I finally installed the Shure cartridge and aligned it, or so I think. Is it possible that if it's properly aligned with a protractor the cartridge is a bit diagonal to the headshell? I mean, I've never seen that before, but if I have to align it using either the protractor that came with the Shure or a Stevenson that is supposed to be the optimal for this turntable, it ends up being angled. If I set it straight like the one that came was mounted, then it's not aligned to the lines in the protractors, or to the records. After the alignment I did, the cart seems in perfect alignment with the grooves. The sound is pretty good, so I don't think it's totally wrong, but I'm just surprised because I've never seen the cartridge at an angle to the headshell. Here's what I'm talking about: Is this normal?

One quick question, I got the AT-LP120 turntable and I still haven't installed the Shure cart, I have been recording some songs to my computer so I can make a comparison at least between the included cart (AT95E) and the Shure. Now, as far as the height adjustment of the whole arm, the only thing on the manual about it is that for the included cart it has to be left at 0. Does anybody know if that's the same for the M97xE?

Sure, but it's better than nothing. I mean, unless I buy both, adjust them, record a bunch of songs to my computer and compare them, or even better, having two of the same TT, one with each cart, and each with the same set of records, with a mixer switching back and forth, this video gives me a good idea of what to expect. Especially since one of the records, Dixie Dregs, I have it, so I can do my own test and compare it. Here's the weird thing. The AT440 is noticeably brighter, but I cut and paste that Dixie Dreggs song to two different files, and I set the start to the same exact point, at least by ear and eye, in Audition, and then went to a point in the song where there's a double snare drum. I set the cursor over the same exact spot, and I was surprised to see that the M97xE shows more highs than the AT440, or at least it seems that the roll-off after 16k is more pronounced on the AT440

Thanks, I started getting back into vinyl recently, and I still have to check out the different stores here. I was at Cheshire Cat on Friday, and I spent hours there, but I made out with a collection of about 40, some of them real treasures from my teenage years. Even better, the vendor was having a sale and I got 20% off. Are there any record stores in Durham that are reasonably priced for me to make the trip?

Nevermind, I found it. Vertical Tracking Angle, for newbies like me.

If you live in the Raleigh, NC area and you have some Mike Oldfield and Genesis records in good shape that you want to sell, please PM me the prices and if I agree I can go get them. If you live anywhere in the rest of the US, please also PM the prices plus the shipping. Also if you live in Raleigh let me know what else you have, I might be interested as well. I just don't want to pay for too much shipping if I can find it locally, and shipping from the rest of the world is insane, which is why I put US seller only in the title. Thanks.

Sorry, I'm going to need some education here, what's VTA?

No problem, I appreciate the tip.

Even better, this person posted a great comparison between the Shure and the AT440. It seems to me that the At440 is too bright, except if the record itself was too muffled. For example, the Steely Dan record he tests sounds better on the AT440, but it's about the only one. The others sound too bright, and the Saxon song is almost unbearable on the AT440, while it sounds great on the M97xE.

I just found this test of a M97xE on YouTube, and obviously the audio file is highly compressed like everything on YouTube, but still sounds really good to my ears, on Audio Technica ATH-M40x headphones, connected to a Pioneer VSX-1020 receiver. The music goes into it from the computer through an M-Audio M-Track Plus audio interface, which sounds better than the onboard audio. If the guy is actually showing the sound being filmed, it's the last song in the record and I can't hear any inner groove distortion. I don't like the song at all, but it sounds great, and it doesn't seem muffled at all to me.

I'm looking for a record that has a good amount of white or pink noise to allow me to test frequency response. Any recommendations? Also, does anybody know if the Frequency Analysis module in Adobe Audition CC 2014 is accurate, and if not, what software would you recommend?