Widar Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) Last night I discovered a Toti variant! A while ago I found a copy on local auction site but with record C/D missing . So I thought "Excellent! Backup of disc A/B and cover." Looking at them yesterday, I found that they have different matrix numbers. One pressing has "TWSLP13 A-2" and "Damont" etched, Damont being a vinyl pressing plant in Middlesex, UK. https://www.discogs.com/label/141989-Damont (Sorry for picture quality, pain in the ass trying to take good pictures) The other has only "TWSLP13 A1" etched, not Damont. The record seemed to be a cheaper press(or at least a worse), little "bumps" on the surface, the pictures turned out as crap so i'll take better ones tonight. I'll update Discogs as well, since there are at least two pressings of the original Toti release! :::O From what i could find, the cover had no differences, I'll look into it more this evening. :::) Edited February 16, 2018 by Widar Synaptik and EHughes527 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHughes527 Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Widar said: Last night I discovered a Toti variant! Very cool! Did you see my small discussion on the AYS Deluxe test presses vs. the final product a little bit back in this thread? Made the determinations based on the matrix etches as well. Lots to learn by looking closely! Edited February 16, 2018 by EHughes527 Widar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widar Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) Yes, I read that! It's cool info. But I'm always struck with jealousy when i read that post. Test pressings, clear AYS, AYS signed by Simon... :::D What does the matrix on your Toti say? Edited February 16, 2018 by Widar EHughes527 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHughes527 Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 9 minutes ago, Widar said: Yes, I read that! It's cool info. But I'm always struck with jealousy when i read that post. Test pressings, clear AYS, AYS signed by Simon... :::D What does the matrix on your Toti say? Ok, I've got some intersting info for you now! The first pressing of this was on black in 2001: https://www.discogs.com/Shpongle-Tales-Of-The-Inexpressible/release/73839 My black copy lacks the DAMONT matrix info. [Also this discogs entry seems to have the DAMONT in the matrix, see below] Second press was on clear with multi color splatter in 2008: https://www.discogs.com/Shpongle-Tales-Of-The-Inexpressible/release/1292685 My clear copy exhibits the DAMONT matrix info. I conclude that in 2008, the clear repress got entirely new stamper plates (prob due to a new press plant vs. the 2001 press) and new lacquers were cut... but here's the kicker, it seems as if there were also new copies pressed on black at that time as well. I highly suspect that black copies with DAMONT on side A matrix etchings are the 2008 represses. Widar and Synaptik 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widar Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) 40 minutes ago, EHughes527 said: Ok, I've got some intersting info for you now! You wheren't kidding! :::) The 2001 discogs matrix info was updated just now by me, maybe i was to early..? It's very strange that also the clear says Damont, since the plant was closed in 2006 according to https://www.discogs.com/label/141989-Damont ? Anything else other than Damont (and the different press quality I found) that suggest a 2008 black repress? I have to check really close this evening and see if i can see any differences on the cover. Paper quality etc. Do you see any difference between black 2001 and 2008 clear covers? But if the black was repressed back in 2008 would explain why Toti is the album I see whenever I come across a Shpongle vinyl outside of Discogs. I've seen at least five different ones sold here in Sweden the last couple of years. Edit: What does your non-damont say on the etching? TWSLP A1? Edited February 16, 2018 by Widar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHughes527 Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) BLACK (2001) Side A: TWSLP13 A1 Side B: TWSLP13 B1 Side C: TWSLP13 C1 Side D: TWSLP13 D1 SPLATTER (2008) Side A: TWSLP13 A-2 DAMONT 75909E1/A Side B: TWSLP13 B-2 75909E2/A DAMONT Side C: TWSLP13 C1 75909E3/A Side D: TWSLP13 D1 75909E4/A Sides C/D for both 2001 and 2008 presses have identical matrix etchings and I'm 100% certain they were the same lacquer for both presses. (Specifically compare the 'S' and overall spacing) The 2008 press has the addition of the "75909E..." string, but those appear to be machined on and certainly not hand written. At most we can an infer this: Twisted was unable or unwilling (potential reasons are numerous) to reuse the Side A/B plates when they decided to repress TOTI and had to have a new lacquer cut. They were able to reuse the 2001 plates for the Sides C/D, but added the additional machined string to it. If DAMONT was not operational post-2006 it's possible Twisted simply had been working on the repress much earlier than when it eventually was released (not terribly uncommon for releases to be delayed months to years for various reasons). The TOTI 5th anniversary was ca. 2006, so it's plausible that they had that work done well before DAMONT shut down. Thoughts? Edited February 16, 2018 by EHughes527 Synaptik and Widar 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widar Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 This is exciting! Yes, i agree. I and have to double check later today if the black A-2 has the 759090E1/A stamped, i don't recall seeing anything like that. Could it be that early (A1) blacks turned out worse than they thought and made new plates, A-2, continuing black and in 2001. Later reused them for the 2008 and added the 7590...? Any thoughts on the covers? Anything you can spot or feel that is different from the 2001 and clear/splatter 2008? Synaptik and EHughes527 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHughes527 Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Widar said: This is exciting! Yes, i agree. I and have to double check later today if the black A-2 has the 759090E1/A stamped, i don't recall seeing anything like that. Could it be that early (A1) blacks turned out worse than they thought and made new plates, A-2, continuing black and in 2001. Later reused them for the 2008 and added the 7590...? Any thoughts on the covers? Anything you can spot or feel that is different from the 2001 and clear/splatter 2008? It's possible they were unwilling to use them due to some audio defect or something, or it's possible they were unable to use them due to them being damaged or misplaced perhaps? As far as the jackets, both look identical to me. I even checked the center labels. Same there too. In theory, they should have updated the (P) 2001 to (P) 2008 for the repress, but didn't update their art files it would seem. Edited February 16, 2018 by EHughes527 Synaptik and Widar 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHughes527 Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 8 minutes ago, Widar said: Could it be that early (A1) blacks turned out worse than they thought and made new plates, A-2, continuing black and in 2001. Later reused them for the 2008 and added the 7590...? This is possible too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widar Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Yes, that was my thought as well, Copyrighted to 2008. Ok, nothing there then. The pictures of the TWSLP13, looks identical to me. Would be the same plates. If you carefully look over the surface of the black 2001, do you see any imperfections? I saw some strange things yesterday, like little... (here my english stutters).. like little pits(?). I haven't listened to it either, yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V3XED Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 I have no idea whats going on in here. But I am enjoying the detective work and wild speculation. Huzzah! EHughes527, Widar and Synaptik 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHughes527 Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, V3XED said: I have no idea whats going on in here. But I am enjoying the detective work and wild speculation. Huzzah! Let's just see how far this rabbit hole goes... I like to spend some time checking out old archived Twisted/Shpongle pages in search of first hand info about releases. I've been searching for pressing numbers and exact release dates to update their respective Discogs entries... Example: Here's the original sales page for the AYS minidisc. Shpongle - Are You Shpongled? (Minidisc) [TWSMD4] https://web.archive.org/web/20101016011913/http://www.twistedrecords.co.uk:80/shop/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=88 You guys help me look for a ~2008 TOTI announcement! Beware, the archive is full of dead ends. It's like a choose your own adventure! Haha Edited February 16, 2018 by EHughes527 Widar and Synaptik 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHughes527 Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 On 2/26/2017 at 7:31 PM, EHughes527 said: I feel the same this year too! Lol I guess I'll settle for old Shpongle w/ new pressings. IM needs a full discography repressing too! Widar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHughes527 Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 Side note on Codex VI pressings: This comment was found in the Discogs entry comment section. 1) Green and Blue copies are not bootleg or unofficial. 2) Black copies + Blue copies + Green copies = 2000 copies. 3) There is no association between colors and nations. 4) The're just different coloured randomly distributed. Is all! Source: S. Holtom (Sales & Distribution, Twisted Music) Widar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widar Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 (edited) Ok. Didn't have as much time as i thought yesterday, two kids have this effect. There is no 759090x-string anywhere on the matrixes on the vinyl, no difference between the sleeves, the paper etc feels exactly the same. This could indicate that they where made at the same time, and that would be 2001. On 2018-02-16 at 9:57 AM, EHughes527 said: BLACK (2001) Side A: TWSLP13 A1 Side B: TWSLP13 B1 Side C: TWSLP13 C1 Side D: TWSLP13 D1 SPLATTER (2008) Side A: TWSLP13 A-2 DAMONT 75909E1/A Side B: TWSLP13 B-2 75909E2/A DAMONT Side C: TWSLP13 C1 75909E3/A Side D: TWSLP13 D1 75909E4/A Sides C/D for both 2001 and 2008 presses have identical matrix etchings and I'm 100% certain they were the same lacquer for both presses. A1/B1 has small inperfections as i said earlier, I haven't played it yet thou. Dunno if it's heard. The other release is; BLACK (2001?) Side A: TWSLP13 A-2 DAMONT Side B: TWSLP13 B-2 DAMONT Side C: TWSLP13 C1 Side D: TWSLP13 D1 NO 7590-string! My theory; 2001: First press plates (A1/B1) deteriorated or something broke within the press/plates etc, and the plates had to be scrapped. They replaced the A1/B1 plates with A-2/B-2 at DAMONT, but kept the earlier C1/D1 and the sleeves. This would explain why only one disc has the DAMONT etching and the same sleeves. 2008: Reuse of A-2/B-2 and C1/D1 plates but added the machined 75909-string to keep them seperated. This would explain why it says DAMONT at all since the plant closed in 2006. A black repress should have the 7590-string as well. Sleeves being the same 2001 and 2008 is strange... Thoughts? Edit: I'll email Simon Holtom and ask if he recalls anything about this. That would be final. :::) Edited February 17, 2018 by Widar Synaptik and EHughes527 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHughes527 Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Widar said: Sleeves being the same 2001 and 2008 is strange... Thoughts? This is the least strange part of it to me. They simply kept and then reused the same art files when ordering the repress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widar Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 21 hours ago, EHughes527 said: I feel the same this year too! Lol I guess I'll settle for old Shpongle w/ new pressings. IM needs a full discography repressing too! Even better! Old Shpongle with new masterings!! IM would be cool remastered! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widar Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, EHughes527 said: This is the least strange part of it to me. They simply kept and then reused the same art files when ordering the repress. True! But the same feel to the paper etc? Same glossy feel on the inside on 2008 splatter? This is beyond nerdy, I know! :::D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widar Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) I have now emailed Simon Holtom of Twisted Records asking if he recalls anything about a black variant. Edited February 18, 2018 by Widar EHughes527 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHughes527 Posted February 18, 2018 Author Share Posted February 18, 2018 8 hours ago, Widar said: I have now emailed Simon Holtom of Twisted Records asking if he recalls anything about a black variant. I'm dying to know press qty too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHughes527 Posted February 19, 2018 Author Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) Y'all ready for this? Good luck tomorrow! 99% sure this will be the eventual buy URL: https://shponglemusic.bandcamp.com/merch Use this link to determine the exact time relative to your local time this will drop: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=19th+February+at+6pm+GMT Edited February 19, 2018 by EHughes527 Widar and Synaptik 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widar Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) On 2018-02-16 at 5:41 PM, EHughes527 said: Let's just see how far this rabbit hole goes... I like to spend some time checking out old archived Twisted/Shpongle pages in search of first hand info about releases. I've been searching for pressing numbers and exact release dates to update their respective Discogs entries... Example: Here's the original sales page for the AYS minidisc. Shpongle - Are You Shpongled? (Minidisc) [TWSMD4] https://web.archive.org/web/20101016011913/http://www.twistedrecords.co.uk:80/shop/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=88 You guys help me look for a ~2008 TOTI announcement! Beware, the archive is full of dead ends. It's like a choose your own adventure! Haha I love a fast rabbit hole! ;;;) Cool minidisc info! I haven't found anything about a 2008 TOTI, but the prices for these vinyl are incredible. https://web.archive.org/web/20080122171624/http://www.twistedrecords.co.uk:80/shop/catalog/index.php?cPath=22_24_32 Edit: I looked on psyshop as well, no luck there. Edited February 19, 2018 by Widar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHughes527 Posted February 19, 2018 Author Share Posted February 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Widar said: I love a fast rabbit hole! ;;;) Cool minidisc info! I haven't found anything about a 2008 TOTI, but the prices for these vinyl are incredible. https://web.archive.org/web/20080122171624/http://www.twistedrecords.co.uk:80/shop/catalog/index.php?cPath=22_24_32 Yeah, I'm dubious those were the actual prices, but would love to believe it was true at the time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widar Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Yes, shouldn't have been that cheap, and shouldn't ever have needed a clearance sale either. 36 minutes ago, EHughes527 said: Y'all ready for this? Good luck tomorrow! Oh yeah, I'm ready! 12hours to go! Thing's a beauty... EHughes527 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toomanyrecords Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 But the question is... should we wait for the clear pressing that comes right after? Widar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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