dangorange Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 I'm thinking this, try the 2M Red and go from there, like you said, it's not doing much of a dent in the budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannibal Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Yeah, but I also don't think it will do much at all, but cost you $100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangorange Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 Yeah, but I also don't think it will do much at all, but cost you $100. Might be right, and I'm definitely not looking to throw $100 out the door. Regardless, I'm starting to take a turn on this and open my eyes to other possible turntables. I've always been a big admirer of those Linn & a few of the old Thorens. That was back when I couldn't afford a decent turntable, now I can though, whether it makes sense is a whole other deal. I've never been someone my friends & family would call sensible though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 With a Linn you are buying a top end turntable but are definitely paying a load for a badge and some marketing hype. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangorange Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 With a Linn you are buying a top end turntable but are definitely paying a load for a badge and some marketing hype. Sure, if I went in this direction I would buy used, carefully. Lot's still to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swemoll Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 With a Linn you are buying a top end turntable but are definitely paying a load for a badge and some marketing hype. Remember to take everything said here with a grain of salt, as I would strongly disagree with this statement. Also, buying a Linn used is a frightening endeavor, and setting one up is even more difficult. Buy my Rega and you'll be good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tardcore Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Remember to take everything said here with a grain of salt, as I would strongly disagree with this statement. Also, buying a Linn used is a frightening endeavor, and setting one up is even more difficult. Buy my Rega and you'll be good to go. Remember to take everything said here with a grain of salt swemoll 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangorange Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 Remember to take everything said here with a grain of salt Ha yes, of course! That's a given, but still very good advice all around. I keep finding myself looking at that Funk Firm LSD, which is troubling, never a good sign. Closest dealer is in NYC (I'm near Boston) but there a few near Chicago and I'll be visiting my brother who lives out there over Labor day weekend. Might have to see it in person. That's over a month away, plenty of time to research more and decided whether I want to go all in on the turntable side. There's just something incredibly appealing with that turntable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannibal Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 If you are intent on upgrading your turntable, I highly recommend VPI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangorange Posted July 26, 2014 Author Share Posted July 26, 2014 If you are intent on upgrading your turntable, I highly recommend VPI. Any particular model? I'm reading about build issues with the Funk Firm and still digging it. VPI not so much, but sounds like a higher quality build, but not as interesting. But that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannibal Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 To follow up my VPI recommendation, like I said earlier, I'm not sure your listening situation really warrants a new TT, but if you are set on getting new one, I would take a big step up and really see what it's all about. Get a Traveller or Scout, put a Dynavector 10x5 on it, and enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannibal Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Any particular model? I'm reading about build issues with the Funk Firm and still digging it. VPI not so much, but sounds like a higher quality build, but not as interesting. But that's just me. Well looks certainly play a big part in turntable decisions, so I understand why someone may not care for the Scout line, so there is also the traveller, which looks more like the Rega/pro-ject design. I actually went from a Debut III w/ Acrylic platter and Denon DL-160 to my VPI Classic, first with the DL-160, then I upgraded to a Dynavector XX-2. After unboxing the Classic, I can't help but look at a lot of Rega and Project tables as toys. The VPI sound is a very natural, neutral, yet powerful sound. I love the monolithic, mechanical looks and Dynavector MC carts give them a great punch and smooth detail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangorange Posted July 26, 2014 Author Share Posted July 26, 2014 @kannibal, thanks for that info, more to consider, which I appreciate for sure. Also, I don't want to completely downplay my listening environment, it's just much of my time these days is an active movement while records are playing. That's not to say I don't make sure to take some time to really sit in front of my speakers and experience the sound. Plus, I'm educating my daughter, she's 4! to appreciate music and all it's nuances. Music is a very important and daily element for my family. I get a lot of flak as a film composer since they are forced to hear passages over and over again of stuff I'm working on, it's a joy to throw on a record and just let it play rather than what 'daddy is playing' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannibal Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 No problem. I'm not trying to downplay your current listening situation either. I try to stay grounded in the world of HiFi audio where it's easy to get carried away both by the "pie in the sky" and in thinking that a very entry level system sounds "Incredible!". Another note: Going from the P.O.S. Ortofon OM5e to the Acrylic platter and Denon cart was a big upgrade sound wise for my Debut III. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangorange Posted July 26, 2014 Author Share Posted July 26, 2014 No problem. I'm not trying to downplay your current listening situation either. I try to stay grounded in the world of HiFi audio where it's easy to get carried away both by the "pie in the sky" and in thinking that a very entry level system sounds "Incredible!". Another note: Going from the P.O.S. Ortofon OM5e to the Acrylic platter and Denon cart was a big upgrade sound wise for my Debut III. I hear you, considered upgrading the debut iii, and still might. i just don't like upgrading things that don't warrant it. Getting a lot of competing opinions on that front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Remember to take everything said here with a grain of salt, as I would strongly disagree with this statement. Also, buying a Linn used is a frightening endeavor, and setting one up is even more difficult. Buy my Rega and you'll be good to go. Always manages to get a rise out of someone that one. Lovely turntable but not at the price they command now. I've had several over the years in various guises of upgrade state but always sold them on as their monetary value outstrips their musical value to me. Apart from the extortionate cost I can't see why you say buying them 2nd hand is a frightening endeavour though? There is nothing special in the engineering of them and their fundamental design is that of an Ariston RD12 which is that of an AR XA, granted suspension setup can be a little tricky if you don't attack it in a logical manner but no more so than any of the turntables that use that design. Usually when I have set them up for people in the past they have got all crossed up with them because they go at the adjusting process a bit too vigorously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Any particular model? I'm reading about build issues with the Funk Firm and still digging it. VPI not so much, but sounds like a higher quality build, but not as interesting. But that's just me. All of the Funk/Pink turntables suffer from these comments and have always done so, it's because they tend to be constructed from very light and or thin components and because of this they need to be cherished and handled accordingly. I guess it's a design philosophy where they are after the very lightest and sensitive response which certainly works to my ears and always has. It depends how you treat your equipment and also the prices I have seen quoted for them in the US does seem to make them expensive which definitely needs to be taken into account but at these sort of prices its a decision you need to make after a few back and forth listening sessions with all the likely candidates using a range of the sort of music you listen to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 No problem. I'm not trying to downplay your current listening situation either. I try to stay grounded in the world of HiFi audio where it's easy to get carried away both by the "pie in the sky" and in thinking that a very entry level system sounds "Incredible!". Another note: Going from the P.O.S. Ortofon OM5e to the Acrylic platter and Denon cart was a big upgrade sound wise for my Debut III. Very true, you are talking about $2000 turntables and that is a big pile of money to spend on anything so be absolutely happy you are buying the right one whatever choice you make. But also in your original post spoke about new carts etc. So if you do go down the road of a new cart you can keep it to use in the next turntable if you do go for something more expensive. the acrylic platter will make a difference and you can usually sell them on but if you are working towards a new turntable it may not be as wise a place to put money as a new cartridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangorange Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share Posted July 27, 2014 Thanks allenh for the excellent responses. I have to say, I know a lot more than I did several days ago about turntables and cartridges, I love that. I thought about the Linn for a couple of reasons, years ago I fell in love with them for the look & reputation, but at the time could not afford one. Also, those days I was putting all monetary resources into my pro audio set up, which I have scaled back on lately. Now that I do have a budget to spend, I'm finding myself more interested in something for my home listening, than something for recording. Also with the Linn, it seems to be a reasonably solid investment, I've done well over the years with the instruments/amps etc I've bought and ultimately sold. I like to buy high quality, and if and when it's time to sell, I usually make my money back, or do better, not usually worse. That said, if I do buy a new turntable, I'm not going in as something I would plan to sell, or an investment. It's just something that crosses my mind since I'm that way when buying instruments etc. In terms of setting up any of these players, I'll have some learning to do, but I'm pretty good at that sort of thing. Always been DIYer, I build modular synthesizers, fix all sorts of mechanical and electronic devices. With some research, I'm confident I'll be able to sort out a turntable if it needs TLC. I mean, with the wealth of knowledge on the net these days, pretty much anyone can fix, set up anything, if they have the desire and a decent attention to detail. As for the chance to listen to these, that's my biggest handicap. Everyone close to me seems to be all about Rega and Clear Audio, those type of names. There's one place I might be able to check out a Linn that's not too far. Whether I'll be able to demo a Funk Firm when I'm out in Chicago is up in the air since that's going to be all about family. Might not be able to steal out for the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Thanks allenh for the excellent responses. I have to say, I know a lot more than I did several days ago about turntables and cartridges, I love that. I thought about the Linn for a couple of reasons, years ago I fell in love with them for the look & reputation, but at the time could not afford one. Also, those days I was putting all monetary resources into my pro audio set up, which I have scaled back on lately. Now that I do have a budget to spend, I'm finding myself more interested in something for my home listening, than something for recording. Also with the Linn, it seems to be a reasonably solid investment, I've done well over the years with the instruments/amps etc I've bought and ultimately sold. I like to buy high quality, and if and when it's time to sell, I usually make my money back, or do better, not usually worse. That said, if I do buy a new turntable, I'm not going in as something I would plan to sell, or an investment. It's just something that crosses my mind since I'm that way when buying instruments etc. In terms of setting up any of these players, I'll have some learning to do, but I'm pretty good at that sort of thing. Always been DIYer, I build modular synthesizers, fix all sorts of mechanical and electronic devices. With some research, I'm confident I'll be able to sort out a turntable if it needs TLC. I mean, with the wealth of knowledge on the net these days, pretty much anyone can fix, set up anything, if they have the desire and a decent attention to detail. As for the chance to listen to these, that's my biggest handicap. Everyone close to me seems to be all about Rega and Clear Audio, those type of names. There's one place I might be able to check out a Linn that's not too far. Whether I'll be able to demo a Funk Firm when I'm out in Chicago is up in the air since that's going to be all about family. Might not be able to steal out for the time. All this stuff really does come down to personal preference which is why I say you need to listen to them. You can take peoples advice but it will always be biased toward their preference for whatever reasons be they musical, financial or level of experience but you really can only buy with your ears, there are caveats to that like you get offered an LP12 for $50, in that case you risk it because even in spare parts there will be a profit but there is so much hype and bullshit with hifi that your ears should be the final thing you trust. I have nothing against the Linn as a piece of engineering, my problem is with things that command a price because of legend and marketing that is above their performance level. The LP12 is a superb turntable in every way except it's price but as you say they are a solid investment just as with others like the Technics SL1200 because they hold their money, so provided you are happy with what you pay for one it's not an issue, it has always bugged me though so whenever I get a piece of hifi that falls into that category I try it for a while and then end up selling it and buying an as good turntable for less money and have some change to buy something else. As you say you don't buy this stuff for any rational financial reason so you do have to be careful of the hyperbole that can go along with it. The Linn/Ariston story is an interesting one and worth a bit of research, having read the history and had an original LP12 and an Ariston RD12 here at the same time certainly makes you look at how Linn came into being and what drives them. It's been said many times but when you get up into the high end things don't necessarily sound better or worse they just sound different, which is to do as much with engineering limitations as it does to do with the law of diminishing returns so once you are in that category providing you buy and sell well you can move around within it quite easily. It sounds like you have your head screwed on and are happy with a screwdriver and a soldering iron so with that in mind 2nd hand is probably your best bet plus you get the fun of the hunt, I buy and sell way too much of this stuff because I want to experience as much of it as possible but I have to say the more of it I experience the better I have got at it. Anything brand new is lovely but with this stuff good engineering will always stand out and something that cost a big pile of money tends to get looked after. The last point I will make is don't get caught up in listening to the equipment as it's the music you should be listening to first and foremost, it's a trap people do sometimes fall into when they start spending lots of money on this stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangorange Posted July 28, 2014 Author Share Posted July 28, 2014 The last point I will make is don't get caught up in listening to the equipment as it's the music you should be listening to first and foremost, it's a trap people do sometimes fall into when they start spending lots of money on this stuff. Excellent advice and suggestions, especially this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangorange Posted August 15, 2014 Author Share Posted August 15, 2014 Update, and again, a huge thanks to all the excellent advice, special thanks to allenh! I ended up finding a great deal on a preowned Funk Firm LSD. It arrived the other day and after spend a couple hours reassembling it, I had a little scare. The shop I bought it from is a dealer(this was a trade in) so I bought a benz micro silver cartridge from them as well. When I felt like it was dialed in close enough to try a song, I ended up with no sound, just hum from the right channel. Luckily after some testing, it turned out to be a bad cartridge. Bought a Dynavector 10x5 instead from a local shop and gave it a spin yesterday. I'll admit, I was a little concerned I wouldn't hear a significant difference from my earlier table, wasn't sure how subtle it might be. Wow! This thing sounds incredible, I was hearing instruments I didn't even realize were there from before. Everything sounds tighter, punchier, and much better separation overall. I'm totally stoked over this turntable! Still need to do some more adjustments but I can tell this is a keeper! obligatory pic: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trott3r Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 We told you ! Glad you are enjoying it. Vinyl does seem to need more money to sound good than other formats it seems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannibal Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Good to hear! Good audio is a joy, but it really is something one needs to experience for one's self to hear what they are missing. It's also expensive. Nice choice on the Dynavector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 When it comes to vinyl going pink is always a good idea as Arthur has always had a good ear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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