nivek87 Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 thebiglebowski, on 12 Feb 2013 - 11:07, said: You can't guarantee this because no one can. I would bet that those guys would still put up top-5 numbers under Cam Cameron. That is why they are elite. Cassel was better in NE than KC. No doubt. No one saying that team doesn't matter. But Cassel's year in the same system was still about 600 yards short of what Brady has consistently done over the last 5 years. Also 15 Tds short and with a couple more interceptions than his average. There was a noticeable drop with Cassel instead of Brady, because Brady is elite and Cassel isn't. yeah you are comparing a matured qb to matt cassels first time as a starter. look at it like this,bradys numbers in first four seasons as a starter average yards per game a season, 3,480 average tds a season, 25 (including rushing) average ints a season, 13 matt cassels numbers as a pats starter yards per game, 3,693 average tds a season, 23(including rushing) average ints a season, 11 yes brady has gotten better and better, but he plays in a great system. most likely cassel would of done the same thing. his first year starting looks better than bradys body of work in his first four seasons as a starter. what if brady went to kc? if matt cassel had similar numbers in ne as brady, maybe brady would have similar numbers in kc. my whole point is, the coaching matters. i would be very curious to see what would happen if cam cameron was calling the shots in new england. look at how much of a change having a new OC in baltimore has done for the qb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I'm not crying for Flynn. He got a contract bigger than he should have with barely any on-field experience. I'd take a $6m signing bonus and $5m salary to sit on the bench if I was him. I wish no one would ever use the terms "near-elite" or any variation. You are elite or you aren't. Eli started this whole thing with that interview. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 yeah you are comparing a matured qb to matt cassels first time as a starter. look at it like this, bradys numbers in first four seasons as a starter average yards per game a season, 3,480 average tds a season, 25 (including rushing) average ints a season, 13 matt cassels numbers as a pats starter yards per game, 3,693 average tds a season, 23(including rushing) average ints a season, 11 yes brady has gotten better and better, but he plays in a great system. most likely cassel would of done the same thing. his first year starting looks better than bradys body of work in his first four seasons as a starter. what if brady went to kc? if matt cassel had similar numbers in ne as brady, maybe brady would have similar numbers in kc. my whole point is, the coaching matters. i would be very curious to see what would happen if cam cameron was calling the shots in new england. look at how much of a change having a new OC in baltimore has done for the qb. Your argument makes no sense. You say that it is the system that created Brady and he wouldn't be an elite qb in another system. Then you want to compare Brady from 12 years ago to Cassel's year 8 years later, when 90%+ of the players would have turned over? No one in here is talking about player progression. Brady had one of the best QB seasons of all time in '07, Cassel came in and did OK in '08, then Brady came back and was typical elite Tom Brady. How can you draw any conclusion from that then that Brady is the difference between the NE QB being a decent player and elite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nivek87 Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Mike T, on 12 Feb 2013 - 11:25, said: You cant bring up Matt Flynn because he never got a chance in Seattle. They went with Wilson from the start. Flynn got a raw deal there. BAL chanced coordinators mid season and teams didnt have many opportunities to plan for the change/had no idea what to expect. give teams/franchises a chance to study the offense and then we'll talk about if the O-Coordinator can change the perception of Flacco being mediocre. one good playoff run does not change 3 years of mediocrity before. Again, if Flacco was an elite QB, he'd have been able to put up the numbers. look at big ben, a borderline elite QB, todd haley butchered that offense and Ben was still able to throw for 3200 yards, 26 TD, 8 INT in 12 1/2 games, which had he played all 16 games he'd probably have almost 4000 yards. a rookie beat him for the starting job off the gun, i think that says enough and if a HC and DC can't scheme all of the same players with a different OC in town. that man doesn't deserve his job. however, i guess thats why denvers secondary coach lost his job. joes always been able to bomb the ball, nothing new there.as much as it pains me, ben is an absolute beast. he is a great play maker and there is a reason he has two super bowl rings. todd hailey did butcher that offense and thats why ben and co lost 6 games with him as a starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 cassell played for a new england team that went 18-1 the season before. it's no surprise at all that some of the other guys knew a thing or two about what they were doing. and yeah, in 2007 and going into 2008, and every year since.. brady has been surrounded by talent. way more weapons than he ever had in his first 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nivek87 Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 thebiglebowski, on 12 Feb 2013 - 11:41, said: Your argument makes no sense. You say that it is the system that created Brady and he wouldn't be an elite qb in another system. Then you want to compare Brady from 12 years ago to Cassel's year 8 years later, when 90%+ of the players would have turned over? No one in here is talking about player progression. Brady had one of the best QB seasons of all time in '07, Cassel came in and did OK in '08, then Brady came back and was typical elite Tom Brady. How can you draw any conclusion from that then that Brady is the difference between the NE QB being a decent player and elite? for the very reason brady had year more experience against defenses, cassel was thrown out into the wolves in the beginning of a week 1 game and shined. of course its skewed because they didn't enter the league at the same time and brady had years of experience under his belt. if cassel continued he would of only improved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 So you think that if Cassel had been drafted by New England in 2000 and Brady in 2005 that Cassel would be heading to the hall of fame and Brady would be struggling in KC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Ben won 1 super bowl, the other super bowl ring he got he was so awful, had the worst QB performance ever of any winning super bowl team. had a QB rating of 22.6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nivek87 Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 So you think that if Cassel had been drafted by New England in 2000 and Brady in 2005 that Cassel would be heading to the hall of fame and Brady would be struggling in KC?i would love to think that. after all, he was drafted in the 6th round. Ben won 1 super bowl, the other super bowl ring he got he was so awful, had the worst QB performance ever of any winning super bowl team. had a QB rating of 22.6.if brady performed awful in a super bowl and they still won, doesn't mean his season is ruined and he didn't deserve a ring and the season to get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nivek87 Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 i'd also like to note that i am extremely bored at work and obviously only posting stats and examples in my favor of arguing. its kind of fun and entertaining. i will also say, i do think flacco is an elite qb and cam cameron was a team cancer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nivek87 Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 yeah you are comparing a matured qb to matt cassels first time as a starter. look at it like this, bradys numbers in first four seasons as a starter average yards per game a season, 3,480 average tds a season, 25 (including rushing) average ints a season, 13 joes numbers thus far. average yards per game a season, 3,612 average tds a season, 22 (including rushing) average ints a season, 11 no spygating the defenses either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Brady wasn't elite his first 4 seasons. Neither was Flacco. They were both just good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 i would love to think that. after all, he was drafted in the 6th round. if brady performed awful in a super bowl and they still won, doesn't mean his season is ruined and he didn't deserve a ring and the season to get there. but he didnt, and we'll never have to wonder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nivek87 Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Mike T, on 12 Feb 2013 - 13:52, said: but he didnt, and we'll never have to wonder we can always wonder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Brady wasn't elite his first 4 seasons. Neither was Flacco. They were both just good. By the 3rd superbowl, I think it was safe to call him elite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 By the 3rd superbowl, I think it was safe to call him elite. If you want to take the approach that a teams success determines an elite quarterback, then you should probably agree that Eli and Flacco are elite quarterbacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 that's not what i'm saying at all. tom brady is the definition of elite quarterback in the national football league, and by 2004, he had earned that title. if it was brought up in conversation, it didn't have nearly as many "yeah, but"s as eli and flacco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nivek87 Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 all i know is that there is probably a 75% chance we see tom brady and joe flacco square off again on TNF to begin the season. the other 20% being the steelers vs ravens and the other 5% being the nfl thought they could find a more high profile opponent than those two match ups for the ravens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 that's not what i'm saying at all. tom brady is the definition of elite quarterback in the national football league, and by 2004, he had earned that title. if it was brought up in conversation, it didn't have nearly as many "yeah, but"s as eli and flacco. He did. A lot of those years from 2002 to 2005 when he was winning super bowls he was ranked in the 5-10 range in yards and TDs for QBs. That is not elite production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 This is interesting. It looks like a man playing football against middle schoolers: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1524933-david-fangupo-is-a-350-pound-running-back-and-hes-bigger-and-faster-than-you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emptyhanded Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 I'm a little surprised by the players the giants have released to this point, but the giants have one of the best GM's so I'm interested to see how it all plays out in the draft/next season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Titus Young lasts 10 days with the Rams LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nivek87 Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 woodson cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefchino Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 woodson cut. Fingers crossed jacksonville approaches him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Fingers crossed jacksonville approaches him. he's 38 and coming off an injury plagued season... you can have him. love him as a player, but he's not the player he was anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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