Let Us Talk Politics

[fixedfrequencies]

Richard Wolff: Debt Showdown is "Political Theater" Burdening Society’s Most Vulnerable: http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/28/richard_wolff_debt_showdown_is_political

[mcm1610]

I've been watching that video, just got to the break in the middle (since the time ticker at the bottom of the video isn't working for me).

An interesting point made is that corporations are not hiring, but instead investing money, and much of that investment is in the US debt itself, so corporations are not paying their share of taxes and then profiting off of those who DO pay their taxes.

[gumbycross]

It would ruin economic ties between the two nations. But back to China, they rely on our purchasing of their goods so much that they actually adjust their exchange rates based on how our dollar floats. Most nations have a floating currency and China does not, they artificially value their dollar based on other currencies, and mostly want to make their goods attractive to us.

Isn't there a ridiculous rotation of currency circulating itself from China to the US like some kind of strange continuum. Like we are constantly loaning money to China, money we shouldn't be loaning them nor do we have. This money not to be confused with money paid on debts.

[j4m35]

for anyone who is having trouble understanding why the debt ceiling matters, read this bbc article. it lays it out pretty clearly: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14204527

[mcm1610]

Even some of the more middle-of-the-road economic/political blogs I read are getting doom-and-gloomy on the debt deal. It seems that there's a lot of worry, and in my opinion rightfully so, that the planned cuts are going to tank the economy which will ruin tax revenues, which will actually INcrease the federal deficit.

Then there's the whole unemployed population who at best is just ignored, but at worst will see its unemployment benefits dry up pretty quickly, especially as thousands of government workers are added to the mob.

[jhog3411]

ALL of it is retarded. The whole situation is, and the terrible political situation it highlights is pathetic. I was reading something the other day comparing it to the situation leading up to Shay's Rebellion and that in some political circumstances (the rebellion, slavery around the Civil War), there just isn't a possible way to compromise and one side in fact does have to just beat the other. This person said today's shithole seems like one of those situations. Compromising on some half-assed bill doesn't get us anywhere but back in the same place, so either we raise it and dramatically fix the problem, or don't raise it, crash ourselves and rebuild, we have to do one or the other.

Now what would your idea for fixing the problem be? I'm a huge proponent of cutting spending and raising taxes. It HAS to be a two pronged approach. You kinda can't have one without the other, as I don't think either will make a sizable dent in the problem. It's quite pathetic with the amount of political posturing and unwillingness to compromise. It honestly seems as though there's no room to work with one another because both sides are so brazenly stubborn, it's completely destroyed any chance of a compromise.

I hate that the Republicans are so against tax increases. It's become a total squeeze on the middle class. When you've got something like 5% of the population holding 90% of the wealth and paying zero taxes, there's a severe problem.

You realize that the richest Americans already pay the bulk of all taxes, right? The top 25% of all earners paid 86% of all income taxes. The top 50% pay 97% of all income taxes.

In fact the bottom 50%'s average tax rate is 2.59%, meaning they are already not paying much income tax.

non-partisan Tax Foundation http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

[mcm1610]

Because they CAN'T. You do realize that a very, very large portion of the country lives off little money, right? When the income gap is as large as it is, the one making 1948928562 billion dollars can't turn around and say, "hey you poor asshole, why aren't you chipping in?!" That person is trying to eat and keep the heat on. If I didn't have to run out the door, I'd find you a good defense of that shitty argument, but I'm going to be late for work. Use google and stop being an asshole hating on the poor and defending the rich, who, by the way, don't give a shit about you.

[mcm1610]

Fuck it, it doesn't take me that long to get to work. Also, keep in mind that income taxes are not the only way to make money, and the rich certainly do not pay their fair share when you count capital gains taxes. But that's another argument... here's yours. (Pay attention to who the cite in the article, too.)

http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2011/07/51-zombie-lie

Every morning I take a couple of short breaks from the keyboard to do some stretching exercises that are designed to ease my neck and shoulder pain. I usually turn on the TV while I'm doing this, and that's pretty much my entire exposure to Fox News. So what were they going on about a few minutes ago while I stretched? The fact that people get really upset when they hear that 51 percent of Americans pay no taxes.

Well, I'd be upset too. Who the hell are these freeloaders? Answer: They don't exist, of course. From the Tax Foundation, an organization that even conservatives ought to be willing to credit, here's a report from a few years ago showing the total tax burden on various income groups in America:

Other estimates put the low-end tax burden higher and the high-end tax burden lower, but no matter. This tells the story. The blue bars don't cherry pick just the federal income tax to make a dumb partisan talking point; they show how much each group actually pays in total taxes. Bottom line: Poor people pay less in taxes than rich people, as they should, but it's very far from zero. The midpoint of that first quintile is about $11,000, and even a household earning that little pays about $1,400 in taxes. The household in the second quintile, earning a munificent $30,000 per year, pays $7,000 in taxes.

I know we live in a post-fact environment, but those are the facts. Pass 'em around. There are no freeloaders here.

UPDATE: Just to clear this up in case there's any misunderstanding, it's approximately true that 51 percent of Americans pay no federal income tax. However, conservatives routinely abbreviate this by claiming that 51 percent of Americans pay no taxes. This is the zombie lie. Conservatives get very upset when you call them on it, but that never makes them stop.

So where does the rest come from? Well, in addition to federal income taxes, Americans pay excise taxes, payroll taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, state income taxes, and various other taxes. That's where the blue bar in the chart comes from. In one form or another, even poor Americans pay a fair chunk of their income in taxes.

http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2011/07/breaking-down-lucky-duckies

The other day I wrote about the zombie lie that half of Americans pay no taxes. This is something conservatives repeat routinely, somehow forgetting repeatedly to explain that what they really mean is that half of Americans pay no federal income tax but do pay plenty of other taxes. When you call them out on this wee mistake they tend to get offended — though somehow, never quite offended enough to stop saying it.

But put that aside. Even stated accurately, you might be wondering how it is that so many people end up not paying any federal income tax. Today the Tax Policy Center has the answer for you. In 2011 they estimate that 46% of Americans will pay no federal income tax. Donald Marron breaks this down:

23% pay nothing because they're poor. A couple making less than $19,000, for example, doesn't owe anything after their $11,600 standard deduction and two exemptions of $3,700 each reduce their taxable income to zero. As Bob Williamson puts it, "The basic structure of the income tax simply exempts subsistence levels of income from tax."

10% are elderly and pay nothing because their Social Security benefits are exempt from federal income taxes.

7% pay nothing thanks to provisions in the tax code designed to benefit low-income families: the earned income tax credit, the child credit, and the childcare credit account.

And the other 6%? Their taxes are zero for a variety of reasons: above-the-line deductions and tax-exempt interest; itemized deductions; education credits; other credits; and reduced rates on capital gains and dividends. TPC's report has all the gruesome details.

But for the vast bulk of nonpayers, the explanation is simple: the federal tax code is designed not to tax either poor families or working class families with children, and there are more of these in America than you'd think. One way or another, it turns out, this accounts for about 40% of the country.