Pioneer PL-15D ll: Please Help QUICK!

[FlaStateGuy]

Hey guys,

 

I've been looking to buy a turntable for a couple months now and haven't found a good one for a decent price. I've been searching eBay and found a Pioneer PL-15D II for $180 plus $30 shipping. It's sounds like a lot of money but it's in MINT condition and the guy says that it plays great. 

 

To me, it looks like a great table although it seems a bit over priced. I've been people talking about get really great deals for $30-$60 on tables but I haven't had any luck. I've checked all over the internet.

 

So the question is, what do you guys think of it? Should I buy it? If $180 is too much, how much is a reasonable offer for a table like this one? Thanks for all the help guys. You've always got my back when I need it!

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370855284167?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

 

 

Chris

[FlaStateGuy]

Anyone?

[SaviorSelf]

Seems rather expensive. Buying a TT off ebay is kinda risky with what can happen during shipping and what not. If he offers returns within 30 days that might cushion the fear of shipping damage but that still seems kinda pricey.

[bearchuck]

The PL-15D is a pretty decent vintage starter table.  It's basically a PL-12D with automatic functions.  The PL-12D is one of those tables that you hear people talk about how it punches well above its weight class.  Not a giant killer, per say, but very respectable.

 

Forgot about $30 deals on some awesome turntable.  That's for crazy yard sale dudes who wake up at 4am every saturday and hit 20 different houses in the span of a morning.  Shit is rare, so don't stress out about finding some bargain bin treasure.

 

$200 for a good turntable that will serve you well for a few years is not unreasonable.  However, if you do a search on completed eBay sales for both the PL-15D or the 12D, you'll find that you can probably get the same table in good condition for much less.  Probably closer to $100 if you're patient.

 

Also, there are a couple red flags all over this particular listing.  The seller may have had the turntable for 30 years - and it certainly looks like it's in good shape - but he / she doesn't strike me as any sort of audiophile (popluar S-curve stylus?  C'mon!) which means that they probably have zero experience shipping turntables.  That's the real danger of buying these things on eBay.  It's the rare few who actually know how to pack up a turntable correctly so it arrives in one piece.

 

The seller also doesn't mention what type of cartridge is included.  More importantly, she doesn't say anything about actually using / playing the turntable recently.  What does "excellent condition" mean anyway?  It could mean that she just kept it really clean over the past 30 years.  Because these tables are pretty durable, it's probably fine ... but you never know.  You could be buying yourself a bunch of additional repairs.  New belt, new stylus ... does it need to be cleaned and re-lubed?  Who knows.

 

My advice would be to wait.  I think that you're on the right track with either a PL-15D or PL-12D, but you can probably find a better deal from someone who knows turntables and how to ship them.

[bearchuck]

Hey FlaStateGuy ... where do you live right now?  I'll check Craigslist for you and see if there's anything worth pursuing.

 

Are you going to be anywhere near Charlotte, NC within the next few months?  Thinking about selling off some old gear, including my Dual 1229, a great idler wheel TT in terrific shape.  It was serviced / cleaned / lubed about a year ago.  I can put a nice Grado Blue cartridge with a barely-used stylus on it too.  Unfortunately, I have no intention of shipping it anywhere.  Just too much of a hassle and too many chances it would get damaged in transit.

[FlaStateGuy]

The PL-15D is a pretty decent vintage starter table.  It's basically a PL-12D with automatic functions.  The PL-12D is one of those tables that you hear people talk about how it punches well above its weight class.  Not a giant killer, per say, but very respectable.

 

Forgot about $30 deals on some awesome turntable.  That's for crazy yard sale dudes who wake up at 4am every saturday and hit 20 different houses in the span of a morning.  Shit is rare, so don't stress out about finding some bargain bin treasure.

 

$200 for a good turntable that will serve you well for a few years is not unreasonable.  However, if you do a search on completed eBay sales for both the PL-15D or the 12D, you'll find that you can probably get the same table in good condition for much less.  Probably closer to $100 if you're patient.

 

Also, there are a couple red flags all over this particular listing.  The seller may have had the turntable for 30 years - and it certainly looks like it's in good shape - but he / she doesn't strike me as any sort of audiophile (popluar S-curve stylus?  C'mon!) which means that they probably have zero experience shipping turntables.  That's the real danger of buying these things on eBay.  It's the rare few who actually know how to pack up a turntable correctly so it arrives in one piece.

 

The seller also doesn't mention what type of cartridge is included.  More importantly, she doesn't say anything about actually using / playing the turntable recently.  What does "excellent condition" mean anyway?  It could mean that she just kept it really clean over the past 30 years.  Because these tables are pretty durable, it's probably fine ... but you never know.  You could be buying yourself a bunch of additional repairs.  New belt, new stylus ... does it need to be cleaned and re-lubed?  Who knows.

 

My advice would be to wait.  I think that you're on the right track with either a PL-15D or PL-12D, but you can probably find a better deal from someone who knows turntables and how to ship them.

 

Wow thanks for all the advice. I think I'm probably going to wait and keep checking them. I live in Orlando, FL, but I haven't been able to find much recently. I can also travel to Tallahassee and Gainesville, or get stuff from Knoxville (sister lives there and comes down frequently). What exactly should I be looking for in a table? Are there certain brands/models that are good starter tables? My budget is capped at $150-$200, so i feel like I should be able to find a decent one that will last awhile. 

I have an entire audio setup and the last thing I need is a table. Just wish I could get a good deal on one already. Lol. 

 

Sadly, the closest I'll be to Charlotte is Knoxville. I would definitely be interested in maybe setting something up. 

[bearchuck]

I didn't see much in the Orlando Craigslist.  There's not any set of rules or guidelines when it comes to buying a used table.  Lots of great stuff out there from a variety of manufacturers; it just really depends on what you're looking for and what kind of deal you'd be willing to settle for.  Whatever you do, my advice is to buy from someone local - preferably someone who is into audio equipment and takes good care of their stuff - and who will allow you to audition the table before you commit.

 

There's just too many to list, but I'd be on the lookout for these turntables.  They're reliable, relatively good performers and can be found for reasonable prices.

 

AR-XA ... this would be my number one choice.  There are a ton out there, they're affordable and in stock form sound excellent.  However, they can also be modded to no end.  In fact, a few simple tweaks and you'll have yourself a turntable that will out-perform tables costing 4 or 5 times as much.  VinylNirvana.com is an excellent resource for all things AR and Thorens.

 

On that note, a Thorens TD166 is worth looking for in your price range.

 

Dual 1219 or 1229 or a Garrard Lab 80 are nice idler wheel tables that can be found for under $200.

 

Other brands to look for: Pioneer, Technics, Sony, Kenwood, Lenco, Harman Kardon, Yamaha.  There's even some under-the-radar turntables from Sansui, JVC and Sanyo.  You just really need to do your research.  While these companies made plenty of quality gear, they also made low-level crap that I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.

 

And let's not forget that there are more modern companies to consider.  I'm sure you could find a used Pro-Ject or Rega in the $200 range.

 

As for my Dual 1229, it's not going anywhere.  I just have a decent amount of gear that is being neglected and I feel like most of it deserves a good home with someone who will actually use it.  Maybe there will be an opportunity to meet up sometime.  Just drop me a PM if you have any ideas.  I'll be going to Fest in Oct, so there's that!

 

c

[Korgull Of Morgoth]

Way too pricy for an old TT even if in pristine conditions.

[FlaStateGuy]

I found a nice Dual 1209 for $100 and Pioneer PL-12D II for $50 (needs a new belt). I don't know which to buy, but also I was wondering if someone could help me in terms of information about each table. Here are my main questions:

 

1. Can I upgrade the cartridge and needle/stylus to something better later on when I have more money? If not, how hard is it to find replacement parts with the exact ones that I need? 

2. Are these tables worth the money they're being sold for?

3. In terms of condition of the tables, what questions should I ask the seller?

 

 

The first question is the Thanks guys!

[FlaStateGuy]

The first question is the most important***

[JumpingBean]

I've never been impressed by a Dual, although they did have low mass tonearms which was a breakthrough for the time.

The PL-12D was a good table and worth the 50 dollars.  You can easily find a belt for it I'm certain.

However there are a number of Pioneers you could find in the same price range that would be a whole lot better (PL-55, PL-71, PL-518, PL-255, PL-630, PL-61)
 

[FlaStateGuy]

I've never been impressed by a Dual, although they did have low mass tonearms which was a breakthrough for the time.

The PL-12D was a good table and worth the 50 dollars.  You can easily find a belt for it I'm certain.

However there are a number of Pioneers you could find in the same price range that would be a whole lot better (PL-55, PL-71, PL-518, PL-255, PL-630, PL-61)

 

 

Does the PL-12D II have an automatic "tone arm return" feature like the Dual 1209 does? That's a big thing that I enjoy about the Dual. Also, can you manually put the needle on the record with the Dual or is it automatic only (stupid question, sorry)?

[JumpingBean]

Any automatic record player will also operate as a manual player.

The PL-12D does not have an autoreturn feature to my knowledge.

I would see if you can haggle on the price of the Dual, if you can get it for 60-70 bucks it would be a better buy.

[bearchuck]

The 12XX series Duals are pretty well regarded and there are a ton still out there today because they're built like tanks.  Having said that, they need to be cleaned an lubed once every 2-3 years, and if something goes wrong, there's about a trillion parts underneath one of those things and it's not exactly an easy job for a noob.

 

I love Duals - they're fun machines and they have that idler wheel "soul" that makes music rock.  But if you're unwilling to deal with issues that come with these vintage decks, you'll have a better chance of a trouble-free experience with the Pioneer. Of course, nothing is guaranteed with either of them.

 

You can swap cartridges on both, no problem.  The pioneer will take any standard, modern day headshell, so you could buy an extra, mount a 2nd cart on it and swap between the two ... just for funsies.  The Dual "head sled" is harder to find.  If you want a 2nd one, you'll have to keep your eyes on ebay, but they're out there.

 

But yeah, you only need one headshell for each and you can slap whatever cartridge you want on it, providing it's a good match for the tonearm.  Any moving magnet cart should work.

 

The Dual is automatic, but you can cue it manually.

 

Here's a very short thread on the 1209 with some interesting observations.  The first poster - NoTransistors - is one of the Dual experts out there.  The last guy - Bohhey - is another one and he's the owner of FixMyDual.com.  You'll find plenty of great comments about the PL12D out there as well.

 

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=166034

[FlaStateGuy]

The 12XX series Duals are pretty well regarded and there are a ton still out there today because they're built like tanks.  Having said that, they need to be cleaned an lubed once every 2-3 years, and if something goes wrong, there's about a trillion parts underneath one of those things and it's not exactly an easy job for a noob.

 

I love Duals - they're fun machines and they have that idler wheel "soul" that makes music rock.  But if you're unwilling to deal with issues that come with these vintage decks, you'll have a better chance of a trouble-free experience with the Pioneer. Of course, nothing is guaranteed with either of them.

 

You can swap cartridges on both, no problem.  The pioneer will take any standard, modern day headshell, so you could buy an extra, mount a 2nd cart on it and swap between the two ... just for funsies.  The Dual "head sled" is harder to find.  If you want a 2nd one, you'll have to keep your eyes on ebay, but they're out there.

 

But yeah, you only need one headshell for each and you can slap whatever cartridge you want on it, providing it's a good match for the tonearm.  Any moving magnet cart should work.

 

The Dual is automatic, but you can cue it manually.

 

Here's a very short thread on the 1209 with some interesting observations.  The first poster - NoTransistors - is one of the Dual experts out there.  The last guy - Bohhey - is another one and he's the owner of FixMyDual.com.  You'll find plenty of great comments about the PL12D out there as well.

 

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=166034

 

Awesome! Thank you for all of the help. Do you think that you could give me a couple suggestions on cartridges and styluses to buy for each? Just so I can see about the availability on both tables? I'd rather not spend $100-$150 on a table and then find out later that I have to spend an arm and a leg for a replacement part. 

[JumpingBean]

The AT95e is pretty much my go-to cart when dealing with a vintage table. It's cheap and it will give me a good idea of how all of my other components are doing.

If you want a step up from that I would go with a Shure m97xe or a ortofon 2M red.  If you want a warmer old school sound go with the shure, if you want brilliant highs and more detail then get the ortofon.

But still, you can't go wrong with the at95e...

[FlaStateGuy]

The AT95e is pretty much my go-to cart when dealing with a vintage table. It's cheap and it will give me a good idea of how all of my other components are doing.

If you want a step up from that I would go with a Shure m97xe or a ortofon 2M red.  If you want a warmer old school sound go with the shure, if you want brilliant highs and more detail then get the ortofon.

But still, you can't go wrong with the at95e...

 

Awesome! Thanks a lot!

[jase]

I use a the shure m97xe too. It's very middle of the road, and good quality for its price.