xtobi-wanx Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Anyone from Europe/overseas has experiences with the DHL Express shipping option from the DW estore? Recently, I've used this option for the first time to Germany: Three records, $48 value. Shipping was super fast and actually cheaper than the USPS option - so far that’s great. But: a few days after christmas I’ve received an additional letter from DHL with an invoice for customs. Apparently, the DHL option includes a mandatory import customs clearance. This alone wouldn’t be much of a problem, however, what really annoys me is the fact that- they did a customs declaration with a customs value of 99,35 Euro (even 123,35 Euro for import turnover tax reference), although the commercial invoice stating $48 was attached, resulting in 23,82 Euro customs fees AND- they charged 10 Euro (+ VAT) for their service, which I had never ordered on purpose.I’m currently in the process of clarifying with DHL why they did a wrong import declaration (in my name!) that I haven’t even requested. Anyone with similar experiences? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinch Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 How much was the total cost you paid including shipping? And yeah, DHL's "importing fee" is a fixed 10 eur regardless of how much VAT you have to pay when importing. And this is exactly the downside to using courier services like DHL. It's faster, but while with standard post you might often get lucky and not have to pay any tax when importing, you will always get hit if you use DHL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarostino Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 I've had similar experiences with importing records using UPS and FedEx. Had a long discussion with both companies because they also charged me a fee of about 10€ for their "service" (same case as with DHL). In Germany no other company than Deutsche Post is allowed to do the customs process without your consent and charge your for that by law. Based on that I've received the service charge back from both companies (had this happen to me three times already). I'm not sure what to do in your case though since DHL is part of Deutsche Post. Was there a full invoice included in the package? I know that the local customs offices just do a quick research about the items' values if you can't provide a proper invoice. That research mostly involves just searching for listings on eBay. I can imagine that's how they get that insanely high value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
̮ ɤ ̮ Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 UPS does exactly the same. If you don't want them to take care of the customs you have to opt out. As for the VAT: How much were the shipping costs? You have to pay VAT for both the goods' value AND shipping costs. Still 99€ seems a bit high, else you would have paid almost $70 alone for shipping?! If it's like yarostino said, that they looked through ebay to determine the records' value, show your local customs office the invoice you got from Deathwish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mesi Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 The problem is that more often than not you don't pay the exact amount that shipping actually costs (which is way more). On ALL packages I received so far via a courrier service, the amount I paid for shipping was never mentioned. So they just whip out their chart and charge you VAT for the value of your goods AND their inflated shipping charges. As an example, I once paid $20 to have something shipped via UPS, but they charged me VAT for $120 shipping because they did not know (and not even bothered to ask) how much I actually paid for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mesi Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 And the only way to avoid excessive VAT charges is to transfer your receipt to whatever courrier service you use the moment the shipment enters the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtobi-wanx Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 Funny thing is: USPS parcels are also delivered from DHL in Germany (without this additional service). Shipping was $33, I habe no idea how they've calculated that amount in the customs declaration. The full commercial invoice from DW, however, was included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarostino Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Funny thing is: USPS parcels are also delivered from DHL in Germany (without this additional service). Shipping was $33, I habe no idea how they've calculated that amount in the customs declaration. The full commercial invoice from DW, however, was included. from my experience these "services" are mostly included in the courier services. usps packages are being delivered by the "normal" DHL people in germany, not by their express couriers. at least that was always the case for me so far. in that case definitely try to get somebody on the phone to explain to you how that high value comes together and send them over a copy of the invoice again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FangsAnalSatan Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Even in Canada DW will only ship certain things DHL which is expensive by it's self, then they always declare it as a wrong item and you're forced to pay duties. For Boris' Sunbaked Snowcave I had to pay $20 in duties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtobi-wanx Posted February 21, 2015 Author Share Posted February 21, 2015 Finally, after almost two months I’ve heard back from DHL Express in regard to this issue: I ended up paying the full amount invoiced. Their explanation was, that the commercial invoice from deathwish didn’t include the freight costs. Therefore, they „had to“ consider the standard IATA air freight rate for customs purposes, which is around 90,- Euro. From a formal perspective I can understand this; the commercial invoice indeed included only the items’ value but no freight costs. What I don’t understand is, why they haven’t actually looked at their own rates, which I paid via my order with deathwish. Any changes to the customs calculation would cost another 40,.- Euro or so. So in the end, I paid. In regard to their fees: 10,- is the minimum rate they charge for paying the customs duty in advance when importing stuff. Stated in their standard terms&conditions. All in all, this rules out DHL Express for me as a shipping option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
souljacker8888 Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 i've always felt the whole customs thing was a bit shady... in this example, they were able to calculate the shipping rate much higher than what it actually cost in order to get a higher customs fee!? that does not seem right... Could you have gotten DW to clarify the actually shipping charge since they somehow can't figure out what their own rate for that item actually is. But then they want to charge you a fee to recalculate the custom charge to the correct amount!? Am I reading that right?! SHADY! furthermore, I've always felt using Ebay to calculate value on an item is absolutely ridiculous! How could that even be legal? Ebay is not a retailer, and is in no way a reputable gauge of what something is worth! Seriously! Now I think I finally know why there are those oddball 'buy it now' listings for common cd's priced at $100+ and other crap outrageously priced when there 20 identical items for a fraction! ITS CUSTOMS!! ;p I would bet if they see a listing for Deathwish Record XX for $400, yet there are 10 other listings priced at a reasonable retail of around $15 - $20, the customs due is gonna be based off that $400 listing... even if they could look at the label, see the DW website, and find the ACTUAL price. Shady.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtobi-wanx Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 i've always felt the whole customs thing was a bit shady... in this example, they were able to calculate the shipping rate much higher than what it actually cost in order to get a higher customs fee!? that does not seem right... Could you have gotten DW to clarify the actually shipping charge since they somehow can't figure out what their own rate for that item actually is. But then they want to charge you a fee to recalculate the custom charge to the correct amount!? Am I reading that right?! SHADY! I think you've misunderstood / mixing up some things. DHL Express did the customs declaration in my name. Somehow, they couldn't figure out their own shipping rate, since the commercial invoice didn't include shipping costs. So they took the IATA rate. That's weird. But probably it's two different parts of the company, that are not communicating with each other. But, DHL Express has absolute no benefit from calculating with a higher shipping price, because they don't see the customs fees. So no reason to blame that. On the other side, they would also have no benefit from researching the correct rate... In regard to your third point: Yes, DHL would charge about 40,- Euro for a recalculating of the correct customs value and clarification with the authorities. For me, DHL Express is simply a no-go from now on, since I don't have any control over this process. The second part about eBay, I actually don't understand. I thought, their customs calculation is based on the total cost (auction price + shipping), which is the correct way. Isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarostino Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 The second part about eBay, I actually don't understand. I thought, their customs calculation is based on the total cost (auction price + shipping), which is the correct way. Isn't it? if theres no invoice in the package and you cant/dont provide any info on that the customs offices usually try to find out the value using ebay/amazon/... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
souljacker8888 Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 yea, it was late, I read and then wrote a lot of mixed bizness, especially where you quoted.... I think I comprehended that DHL used the wrong, higher rate, then I transferred that to customs charging based on that and went in the wrong direction. Still, pretty crappy deal by DHL on this one. but, I think it's weird that customs includes the shipping when calculating duties, especially since in this case DHL is a German company, but I get that I guess though I dont agree. when I order something, on say the Amazon marketplace, I always check to see that with shipping it's under the 22 euro (or 25 or whatever it is) threshold to be under where customs starts charging. I've been pretty lucky for the most part, but I did get dinged bad once where with shipping the extra import fee was almost 2/3 of the cost of what I bought. I think it should be based on the goods value... as for the using of ebay to determine value of an item. I absolutely dont agree with that. To much fluctuation. Two people could fight something out to over $200, then when the next one comes up, the bidding pool is one seriously interested bidder less, and it goes for $30 - $50. I've seen it happen. It shouldn't be too hard make the receiver track down the actual invoice, beyond that, I don't know, I am not gonna put a ton of energy into solving the problem, but I am pretty happy to complain and say I am sure a bidding site is not answer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtobi-wanx Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 if theres no invoice in the package and you cant/dont provide any info on that the customs offices usually try to find out the value using ebay/amazon/... actually, in Germany it works the following way: Orders shipped via USPS International are actually delivered via DHL parcel service in Germany. Based on the customs declaration by the shipper (and by some random selection process that I’ve never fully understood…) parcels are sorted out at the import airport and handed over to customs authorities. In this case, I don’t receive the parcel but a letter from the customs office requesting to provide a commercial invoice and any other supplementing documents for the import declaration. I have now two options: Either I go to the nearest customs office myself to present the documents, pay customs duty (if applicable) and pick up my parcel (this is usually a hassle; it takes all in all around 3-4 hours on a normal workday). Or I send them the requested documents, they are checked and I pay any customs duty (and only this amount!) to the parcel delivery person at my door (this is much more convenient, though it adds about 2 weeks lead time). (In some cases, an order which is subject to customs fees slips through and I end up without paying customs at all ) If I don't react on the letter, the parcel is returned to the sender. Noone at the customs authority tries to figure out the value by themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarostino Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 If I don't react on the letter, the parcel is returned to the sender. Noone at the customs authority tries to figure out the value by themselves. they to try to figure the value out if you go to the office and dont provide anything ive once had a lady standing next to me who wanted to pick up a record for her son. it was part of a subscription or something so she had no invoice or anything. the customs people looked the record up on ebay where it was up for some insane amount and they were just like "oh well, thats the value then!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
souljacker8888 Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 they to try to figure the value out if you go to the office and dont provide anything ive once had a lady standing next to me who wanted to pick up a record for her son. it was part of a subscription or something so she had no invoice or anything. the customs people looked the record up on ebay where it was up for some insane amount and they were just like "oh well, thats the value then!" ive had that happen to a friend... also, I was watching one of those ridiculous shows where they follow various 'authorities' around (customs workers, highway cops, market security, flea market organizers and so forth) They were showing people at the Post where items intercepted by customs are picked up. They made a guy open his package and when he didn't provide an invoice, they showed the clerk head to the back and get on ebay to figure out what to charge him. Granted, half these shows are fake and reenactments, but I'm pretty sure this segment was one of the real ones. I've always wondered what one could do to challenge them if they come up with some outrageous charge... again, I think it should be relatively easy to get an invoice.. but in the case of the subscription vinyl mentioned above, there might not be an invoice or if there is it may say $0.00 or something... then what. Tricky Business, and of course The Man is going to get his in the end... i've always worried about when my family sends me anything, what if they try to charge duty for the candy and food they send over, or make themselves? what if I have them grab a record out of my collection there and have them ship it over with that stuff? Can they, or would they, charge me for something I've owned for years? If I have a record that HAS (doesnt mean will again) sold for say $100 before, and I send it to myself, could I have to repay customs to get it! Crazy deal... ...ive pretty much hijacked this from the original post I guess... though still pondering on the original customs issue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtobi-wanx Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 mmmhhh... yes, subscriptions, that may actually be a case, where you can't provide the documents. in all other cases, this should not be any problem, because they usually accept whatever printout from ebay or paypal or order confirmation or whatever you bring... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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