EvanWharton Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Hi all! I am fairly new to all this, so excuse me if this is a stupid question!I currently have my AT-PL120 running through a TCC TC-750 preamp into my Onkyo TX-SR313. My question is in regards to the Onkyo. It is a newer receiver that has 5.1 surround. I have my table plugged into the input labeled "CBL/SAT" and my speakers connected to what is labeled as "Front B." My question is if this receiver is a bad fit for my setup. With it being model that has surround sound, is it converting my signal to digital? Basically, is the receiver having a negative impact on my sound in any way. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Bon Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Hi all! I am fairly new to all this, so excuse me if this is a stupid question! I currently have my AT-PL120 running through a TCC TC-750 preamp into my Onkyo TX-SR313. My question is in regards to the Onkyo. It is a newer receiver that has 5.1 surround. I have my table plugged into the input labeled "CBL/SAT" and my speakers connected to what is labeled as "Front B." My question is if this receiver is a bad fit for my setup. With it being model that has surround sound, is it converting my signal to digital? Basically, is the receiver having a negative impact on my sound in any way. Thanks! no thats fine... just make sure you set the sound to stereo and not surround (in the settings) ... it will be fine... its not converting the signal digital .. you are using an analogue input and an analogue output ... EvanWharton 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanWharton Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 Ok, I understand. Thanks! So if I wanted to eventually add a surround sound system for movies and such, I could connect them to the other speaker inputs (while having my turntable's speakers connected where I have them now) and switch between the "A" and "B" speaker sets and be just fine? A slightly unrelated question....I know of people who have old vintage receivers with built in phono pre amps but choose to use an external preamp. Is there any benefit to having a vintage receiver if you're not even using the preamp that is built into it? Thanks for humoring me! I'm starting to understand all this, there's just a few things I'm still confused on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aarondltd Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Ok, I understand. Thanks! So if I wanted to eventually add a surround sound system for movies and such, I could connect them to the other speaker inputs (while having my turntable's speakers connected where I have them now) and switch between the "A" and "B" speaker sets and be just fine? A slightly unrelated question....I know of people who have old vintage receivers with built in phono pre amps but choose to use an external preamp. Is there any benefit to having a vintage receiver if you're not even using the preamp that is built into it? Thanks for humoring me! I'm starting to understand all this, there's just a few things I'm still confused on. I believe it's because sometimes the quality isn't great because it was put in as an after thought. Also it seems to be a general rule that separate components are better than combined ones. It lets you have a little more control if the pre-amp has any settings like gain. I'm only throwing ideas out there until someone else answers but these are things I've picked up. I have chosen to do this and I like it so far. Only did it because I got a deal on a preamp and thought it would be worth a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Ok, I understand. Thanks! So if I wanted to eventually add a surround sound system for movies and such, I could connect them to the other speaker inputs (while having my turntable's speakers connected where I have them now) and switch between the "A" and "B" speaker sets and be just fine? A slightly unrelated question....I know of people who have old vintage receivers with built in phono pre amps but choose to use an external preamp. Is there any benefit to having a vintage receiver if you're not even using the preamp that is built into it? Thanks for humoring me! I'm starting to understand all this, there's just a few things I'm still confused on. Your front pair are your stereo pair be them A or B and as has been said make sure the receiver is set to 2 Ch (stereo) In general a proper 2 Ch stereo amp will sound better because your surround sound amp is designed primarily for AV sound rather than music and its trying to be all things to all men but unless you are after proper hifi sound it will work just fine and do a perfectly adequate job. With on board phono stages it's a question of how vintage, if it's a proper vintage unit from the heyday of vinyl i.e. late 60's to mid 80's then the chances are the on board phono stage will be pretty good and in some cases very good but if it's after that the chances are it will be piss poor because as YeAhX mentioned it's an afterthought and Onkyo were particularly bad for this so be glad yours hasn't got a phono stage in. There are a lot of general rules for this stuff which are explained very well in the many pages of the beginners guide and as I say they are general so there are always exceptions but to give you a little insight in general for music a proper 2 channel amp not a receiver is best and preferably it needs to be in 3 or more boxes (phono stage, pre amp, power amp). Although it will do a perfectly adequate job an AV receiver isn't considered hifi because it's not intended for music primarily and it will do some electronic signal processing in the output mode selection regardless of which output mode you are in which just adds unwanted and unneeded electronics into the audio chain and it contains a radio tuner which is bad for the same reasons as the need to split stuff in to separate boxes which is electrical noise and the need to isolate it. The signal processing is probably what you have picked up somewhere as a negative against using an AV receiver for 2 channel. There are many many variations and stages along these lines but the golden rule is if you like what you hear then it's good enough until you go mad and spend some more money so by all means do your research and get the basics right but don't worry about the minutia yet, a really expensive system badly set up and positioned will sound average but an average system properly set up and positioned will sound good. One tweak you might be able to make is with your A and B front speakers as you might be able to bi amp your speakers if they are bi-ampable so read the manuals for your amp and it will tell you how to wire them up for this if it does it. Some of the Onkyo's do and some don't so you would need to do a bit of research on both your amp and speakers. Don't get confused with bi amping and bi wiring, bi amping is good and bi wiring is pointless but sometimes manufacturers refer to their speakers as bi wireable which is confusing as at the speaker it means exactly the same thing but at the amp it doesn't, bi meaning 2 means that with bi amping you drive a set of speakers with 2 amp outputs rather than 1 (A+ and bi wire means you wire the two sets of speaker terminals from one amp which is pointless as all you do is give speaker wire manufacturers more business. Have a good read through the beginners guide there is a lot of very good information so it's worth the read and although it will raise some more questions it will answer the simple ones and any new questions will be better educated ones. Welcome to the equally frustrating and beguiling but wallet emptying world of hifi and enjoy. EvanWharton 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aarondltd Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Welcome to the equally frustrating and beguiling but wallet emptying world of hifi and enjoy. I like this variation on the greeting from another audio related forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanWharton Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 Your front pair are your stereo pair be them A or B and as has been said make sure the receiver is set to 2 Ch (stereo) In general a proper 2 Ch stereo amp will sound better because your surround sound amp is designed primarily for AV sound rather than music and its trying to be all things to all men but unless you are after proper hifi sound it will work just fine and do a perfectly adequate job. With on board phono stages it's a question of how vintage, if it's a proper vintage unit from the heyday of vinyl i.e. late 60's to mid 80's then the chances are the on board phono stage will be pretty good and in some cases very good but if it's after that the chances are it will be piss poor because as YeAhX mentioned it's an afterthought and Onkyo were particularly bad for this so be glad yours hasn't got a phono stage in. There are a lot of general rules for this stuff which are explained very well in the many pages of the beginners guide and as I say they are general so there are always exceptions but to give you a little insight in general for music a proper 2 channel amp not a receiver is best and preferably it needs to be in 3 or more boxes (phono stage, pre amp, power amp). Although it will do a perfectly adequate job an AV receiver isn't considered hifi because it's not intended for music primarily and it will do some electronic signal processing in the output mode selection regardless of which output mode you are in which just adds unwanted and unneeded electronics into the audio chain and it contains a radio tuner which is bad for the same reasons as the need to split stuff in to separate boxes which is electrical noise and the need to isolate it. The signal processing is probably what you have picked up somewhere as a negative against using an AV receiver for 2 channel. There are many many variations and stages along these lines but the golden rule is if you like what you hear then it's good enough until you go mad and spend some more money so by all means do your research and get the basics right but don't worry about the minutia yet, a really expensive system badly set up and positioned will sound average but an average system properly set up and positioned will sound good. One tweak you might be able to make is with your A and B front speakers as you might be able to bi amp your speakers if they are bi-ampable so read the manuals for your amp and it will tell you how to wire them up for this if it does it. Some of the Onkyo's do and some don't so you would need to do a bit of research on both your amp and speakers. Don't get confused with bi amping and bi wiring, bi amping is good and bi wiring is pointless but sometimes manufacturers refer to their speakers as bi wireable which is confusing as at the speaker it means exactly the same thing but at the amp it doesn't, bi meaning 2 means that with bi amping you drive a set of speakers with 2 amp outputs rather than 1 (A+ and bi wire means you wire the two sets of speaker terminals from one amp which is pointless as all you do is give speaker wire manufacturers more business. Have a good read through the beginners guide there is a lot of very good information so it's worth the read and although it will raise some more questions it will answer the simple ones and any new questions will be better educated ones. Welcome to the equally frustrating and beguiling but wallet emptying world of hifi and enjoy. I'm open to buying a 2 channel stereo amp. Can you recommend me a few models in the $400 and under range that would be worth checking out that would work with my current setup? I'm getting a lot of the "frustration" mentioned in the post above....the internet can be an infuriating place (: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanWharton Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 Also, if I buy a separate 2 channel stereo amp for my TT, but decide down the line that I want to use my Onkyo to set up surround sound for my TV, is there any way to "share" a pair of speakers between the two systems? Is there some sort of splitter that would allow me to use one set of my speakers for my vinyl playback but also include those speakers in my surround sound system (as front speakers possibly)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tardcore Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Also, if I buy a separate 2 channel stereo amp for my TT, but decide down the line that I want to use my Onkyo to set up surround sound for my TV, is there any way to "share" a pair of speakers between the two systems? Is there some sort of splitter that would allow me to use one set of my speakers for my vinyl playback but also include those speakers in my surround sound system (as front speakers possibly)?Possibly but probably not. Both your AV receiver and stereo integrated would have to support it.I have my system set up like this with a Marantz SR5008 AVR and my Marantz PM8004 integrated. I have the AVR's Front L/R preamp outputs plugged into an 'amp only' input on the integrated. That way, the stereo amp is always driving the Front speakers and if I'm just listening to music, I can swap the integrated out of 'amp only' mode to re-engage the preamp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidamnesiac Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Here's a video explaining in a little more detail what Tardcore has going on: http://www.whathifi.com/news/how-to-add-hi-fi-amplifier-to-your-home-cinema-system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tardcore Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Here's a video explaining in a little more detail what Tardcore has going on: http://www.whathifi.com/news/how-to-add-hi-fi-amplifier-to-your-home-cinema-system More or less. With the exception that my integrated as a dedicated input completely defeats the preamp (volume control) so you don't have to fiddle around with volume matching when you switch back to AV. But yeah, at the very least you need an AVR that has preamp outputs. I don't think Onkyo includes that feature until you get to the 7xx or 8xx range. I know my old Onkyo SR608 did not have them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 More or less. With the exception that my integrated as a dedicated input completely defeats the preamp (volume control) so you don't have to fiddle around with volume matching when you switch back to AV. But yeah, at the very least you need an AVR that has preamp outputs. I don't think Onkyo includes that feature until you get to the 7xx or 8xx range. I know my old Onkyo SR608 did not have them. What Tardcore has done is a great way of doing it with modern kit and years ago companies offered AV processor add on units so that you used the processor for the other 3 channels and the sub, this unit's front ouput went into a spare or AV input on your main Stereo amp which was very simple but technology has overtaken these and they don't have the most up to date dolby etc. They are still a cheap alternative though as they go for next to nothing when you can find one. Some contain the power amps for the other 3 channels and some don't. Yamaha made a load of them plus Arcam made one and Cambridge, Marantz, Sony, Pioneer and Technics. The Arcam Xeta is the best I have heard with in built amps and these can be had for very little over here, the last one I bought was £30 with the remote and manual for a friend a couple of weeks ago and of the un amped ones it's a close run thing between the Pioneer Elite and the Cambridge V500. I have a Cambridge V500 but that's only because they are more common here than the Pioneer. I use it in my main Hifi system to connect things like the bluray and satellite receiver through but am only using it in Stereo at the moment as I have a full AV system in another room so it's an afterthought really and I haven't gotten round to building the other 3 power amps for it yet. I'm sure there are other versions and makes in different markets around the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 I'm open to buying a 2 channel stereo amp. Can you recommend me a few models in the $400 and under range that would be worth checking out that would work with my current setup? I'm getting a lot of the "frustration" mentioned in the post above....the internet can be an infuriating place (: The best place to look will be the beginners guide on this forum as not knowing where in the world you are my opinions will be biased to what is available here in the UK which might not be cost effective where you are but from a basic bang for your buck point of view the Cambridge Azur models and those from Marantz always get a favourable review and don't discount vintage if it's from a reputable seller that you can return it to if it has a fault. A lot of the big manufacturers make from utter cack all the way up so different brands can get wildly different reviews but most offer something decent somewhere in the range with one of the frustrating bits of hifi being finding them. Fundamentally though its all based on personal preference so you need to listen to a lot of kit to get an idea of what you like which does tend to come over time, I've been at this years so have a pretty good handle on what I like but that doesn't stop me being surprised every now and then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannibal Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 I'm open to buying a 2 channel stereo amp. Can you recommend me a few models in the $400 and under range that would be worth checking out that would work with my current setup? I'm getting a lot of the "frustration" mentioned in the post above....the internet can be an infuriating place (: Just continue using and enjoy your current amp. AVRs have weaknesses, but you don't need to rush out and buy a cheap 2-channel amp. I don't think that's a good investment at this point considering the rest of your system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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