zakworthless Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 don't due pirate press, buy american, plus their vinyl doesn't look as good as american plants. is there a reason you say "buy american"? do you think pirates press is taking american jobs and opportunities and shipping them overseas? do you think the quality is not as good because it is not manufactured by americans? i don't really understand the sentiment, especially when most of us are very uninterested in actually buying anything that is american made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingus Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 the main complaint i've heard voiced about pirates press is that, because they press in the czech republic where environmental regulations are more lax, the environmental toll of printing 500 copies of your band or whatever are far greater than if you produced them domestically. that's not even taking into consideration the transport of 500 records from the czech republic to the states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zac Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Other than the whole buy American idea, which I totally support, Pirates Press records that I own always have this weird dust or something in the sleeves that is really annoying and I've heard a lot of complaints about the way they do their A-B side labels. They just use cheap quality paper and inks apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zakworthless Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 the main complaint i've heard voiced about pirates press is that, because they press in the czech republic where environmental regulations are more lax, the environmental toll of printing 500 copies of your band or whatever are far greater than if you produced them domestically.that's not even taking into consideration the transport of 500 records from the czech republic to the states. i will admit that the labor/environmental issue was a concern for us and i've inquired in depth with regards to this issue and the answers i got from both owners and employees of pirates press who have visited the gz plant on multiple occasions were satisfactory and really helped put those concerns to rest. i will admit, i hadn't considered the environmental toll of shipping, and while it is a valid argument, the distance from europe to the east coast is roughly the same as the west coast to the east coast, so depending ones location to a plant it could potentially balance itself out. with all that said, my ties with pirates press are too close to be objective at this point, and i don't want to come off like some kind of spokesperson for the company, but i love the stuff they do, the packaging they have done for chunksaah (as well for my own bands[released on pirates press records]), is always top notch and it's always a pleasure working with that crew. i will, however, agree that i'm not a huge fan of their a/b labels. i don't think they are cheap paper, i just don't like the finish on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjustinxschwierx Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 don't due pirate press, buy american, plus their vinyl doesn't look as good as american plants. I don't think it's necessarily different...just different colors is there a reason you say "buy american"? do you think pirates press is taking american jobs and opportunities and shipping them overseas? do you think the quality is not as good because it is not manufactured by americans? i don't really understand the sentiment, especially when most of us are very uninterested in actually buying anything that is american made. no, it's just that there are so many plants in the US, there's no legitimate reason to...it'd be one thing if this was a rarefied process that no one did anymore, but there are 10 plants I can name off the top of my head in the US. As for the comment about not actually buying anything American made...if you mean as a society as a whole not caring where things come, then yeah maybe...but it's the effort that counts...if you spend a short amount of time searching and doing research you can limit the amount of imported items you purchase. the main complaint i've heard voiced about pirates press is that, because they press in the czech republic where environmental regulations are more lax, the environmental toll of printing 500 copies of your band or whatever are far greater than if you produced them domestically.that's not even taking into consideration the transport of 500 records from the czech republic to the states. this is what I've heard as well...I believe it's from the "haze" coor process that does this, that or the air is so dirty in the plant that the dust just settles on everything. The Shot Baker LP I put out has that dust on them and it drives me crazy. Other than the whole buy American idea, which I totally support, Pirates Press records that I own always have this weird dust or something in the sleeves that is really annoying and I've heard a lot of complaints about the way they do their A-B side labels. They just use cheap quality paper and inks apparently. I've used them and have no major complaints with their service, they seem like really good dudes and have their shit together way more than most US plants, but they're also more expensive. Press a record through them and wait for that shipping bill that isn't on the quote. the labels issue is that they don't use glossy paper, I think if you request that they'll do it. also the center holes are a hair bigger than other plants...but that is a argument of semantics, it's never affected the play of any of my records, but some people disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjustinxschwierx Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 the main complaint i've heard voiced about pirates press is that, because they press in the czech republic where environmental regulations are more lax, the environmental toll of printing 500 copies of your band or whatever are far greater than if you produced them domestically.that's not even taking into consideration the transport of 500 records from the czech republic to the states. i will admit that the labor/environmental issue was a concern for us and i've inquired in depth with regards to this issue and the answers i got from both owners and employees of pirates press who have visited the gz plant on multiple occasions were satisfactory and really helped put those concerns to rest. i will admit, i hadn't considered the environmental toll of shipping, and while it is a valid argument, the distance from europe to the east coast is roughly the same as the west coast to the east coast, so depending ones location to a plant it could potentially balance itself out. with all that said, my ties with pirates press are too close to be objective at this point, and i don't want to come off like some kind of spokesperson for the company, but i love the stuff they do, the packaging they have done for chunksaah (as well for my own bands[released on pirates press records]), is always top notch and it's always a pleasure working with that crew. i will, however, agree that i'm not a huge fan of their a/b labels. i don't think they are cheap paper, i just don't like the finish on them. I believe they are shipped from the Czech Replublic to San Francisco then the pallets are broken down and re-shipped out. I could be wrong on this though...that would explain the massive shipping charges... which in theory would double the carbon footprint if that was the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zakworthless Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 i guess my main point really has very little to do with pirates vs. any other pressing plant (although i really think united sucks) but more to do the notion that "buy american" is somehow the better option. there are pros and cons to any company, likes and dislikes from one product to another, but the "buy american" sentiment reeks of nationalism and xenophobia. it's not like we're talking about some undeveloped third world country with a labor force being exploited by a giant corporation (i.e. the 80's/90's situation with pepsi in burma, nike in indonesia, etc.) that should be boycotted or protested, and it's not like we're talking about cheaply made or unsafe products being made in mexico or china or something to that nature. the czech republic is an advanced country, albeit economically challenged by decades of soviet rule followed by 20 years of trying to re-establish itself since the collapse of it's political and economic system, with skilled workers who have a fairly decent standard of living given their semi-recent history. unionizing (while down in their numbers) is legal, 40 hour week, half hour breaks for 8 hour shifts, overtime rates, and they actually get 4 weeks of paid leave as compared to our 2. i've seen this "buy american/don't use pirates" statement posted on here for years and it just never really made any sense to me. i've worked in american printing places and they have been hazardous and unsafe, shitty wages, and anytime unionizing was mentioned ever tactic the company could use was employed to put fear into the workers and squash any hope of making the workplace a better place for it's workers. environmentally, we all know how bad this business/hobby is, regardless of where or how it's made, buying and shipping records to and from all over the world, consuming and wasting precious resources. so i have a hard time backing the "buy american" because on the surface it's just weak bumper-sticker politics. and none of this is meant as a dis to the person who stated it in this post and it's not meant to try to discredit any of the reasons that have been stated to prefer one company or another (except united...they stink). ok...that's it...i'm done...i have important record label stuff to attend to (just kidding). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmythescumbag Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I like the term "bumper sticker politics"...gonna have to use that one more often, as most people I run into have political "concerns" that fall into that category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zac Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Other than the whole buy American idea, which I totally support, Pirates Press records that I own always have this weird dust or something in the sleeves that is really annoying and I've heard a lot of complaints about the way they do their A-B side labels. They just use cheap quality paper and inks apparently. I've used them and have no major complaints with their service, they seem like really good dudes and have their shit together way more than most US plants, but they're also more expensive. Press a record through them and wait for that shipping bill that isn't on the quote. the labels issue is that they don't use glossy paper, I think if you request that they'll do it. also the center holes are a hair bigger than other plants...but that is a argument of semantics, it's never affected the play of any of my records, but some people disagree. They are really good at customer service, I'll give them that. When I was first looking around for quotes and stuff they were by far the nicest to talk with and got back to me very fast and answered any questions I had (because I was new to all this at that point, not that I'm an expert now). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjustinxschwierx Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 i guess my main point really has very little to do with pirates vs. any other pressing plant (although i really think united sucks) but more to do the notion that "buy american" is somehow the better option. there are pros and cons to any company, likes and dislikes from one product to another, but the "buy american" sentiment reeks of nationalism and xenophobia. it's not like we're talking about some undeveloped third world country with a labor force being exploited by a giant corporation (i.e. the 80's/90's situation with pepsi in burma, nike in indonesia, etc.) that should be boycotted or protested, and it's not like we're talking about cheaply made or unsafe products being made in mexico or china or something to that nature. the czech republic is an advanced country, albeit economically challenged by decades of soviet rule followed by 20 years of trying to re-establish itself since the collapse of it's political and economic system, with skilled workers who have a fairly decent standard of living given their semi-recent history. unionizing (while down in their numbers) is legal, 40 hour week, half hour breaks for 8 hour shifts, overtime rates, and they actually get 4 weeks of paid leave as compared to our 2. i've seen this "buy american/don't use pirates" statement posted on here for years and it just never really made any sense to me. i've worked in american printing places and they have been hazardous and unsafe, shitty wages, and anytime unionizing was mentioned ever tactic the company could use was employed to put fear into the workers and squash any hope of making the workplace a better place for it's workers. environmentally, we all know how bad this business/hobby is, regardless of where or how it's made, buying and shipping records to and from all over the world, consuming and wasting precious resources. so i have a hard time backing the "buy american" because on the surface it's just weak bumper-sticker politics. and none of this is meant as a dis to the person who stated it in this post and it's not meant to try to discredit any of the reasons that have been stated to prefer one company or another (except united...they stink). ok...that's it...i'm done...i have important record label stuff to attend to (just kidding). my opinion on the matter isn't about nationalism/xenophobic views, I'm sure other people have that reasoning, my opinion is based on trying to do things locally(or as locally as possible). I used United, the quality worked part of the time, then I got burned, so I stopped using them. the next local place is/was Musicol, used them for a while then tried a few other places. I have used Pirates Press and they delivered quality records, only flawed by that dust problem, so I'm not really knocking them(I like the non-glossy labels sometimes it looks good). While using them and testing the waters at other plants I got a bit of a guilty conscience thinking of the carbon footprint issue combined with my ability to do the records much more cheaply through US plants...so I stopped using them. I don't boycott labels that use them or the record they produce...no one should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jailhouse Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Also, add about 1000 bucks to whatever they quote you, and you have a more accurate view of the final bill. They also have a tendency to send mysterious bills months and months after you already paid. Their accounting dept sucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunna Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 No Idea presses at United but yet they suck? Grant - every single person you talk to is going to give you a different story on where to press stuff. It's like asking someone if they like Coke or Pepsi. Most big labels stick with one plant and build a relationship. A lot of little labels jump around a lot because of little mistakes that are easily fixed and half of the time their own fault. What record are you putting out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jailhouse Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 No Idea presses at United but yet they suck? Grant - every single person you talk to is going to give you a different story on where to press stuff. It's like asking someone if they like Coke or Pepsi. Most big labels stick with one plant and build a relationship. A lot of little labels jump around a lot because of little mistakes that are easily fixed and half of the time their own fault. What record are you putting out? No with URP it's like the difference between between coke or Sams Choice "Soda" URP sucks, Just because a label somewhere choses to press at URP doesn't mean that URP doesn't put out shitty quality vinyl. No idea is a fantastic label, and I have mad, crazy respect or them, but I hardly think that they would be considered the pinnacle of high quality either, as far as the physical medium goes. I think most indie labels can agree on Rainbo, A+R, RTI, Bill Smith, and even Pirates Press. At the same time, it has been (at least in the label world) fairly common knowledge that URP sucks ass. They used to be cheap as all hell, so smaller labels gambled with em anyway, but nowdays they are just as expensive if not more than other places, seems most labels have moved on. And yes plants treat customers that press a record twice a month and sell tens of thousands of records a year a lot better than those of us who are happy to sell 2000 12" in a years time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zac Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 No Idea presses at United but yet they suck? Grant - every single person you talk to is going to give you a different story on where to press stuff. It's like asking someone if they like Coke or Pepsi. Most big labels stick with one plant and build a relationship. A lot of little labels jump around a lot because of little mistakes that are easily fixed and half of the time their own fault. What record are you putting out? No with URP it's like the difference between between coke or Sams Choice "Soda" URP sucks, Just because a label somewhere choses to press at URP doesn't mean that URP doesn't put out shitty quality vinyl. No idea is a fantastic label, and I have mad, crazy respect or them, but I hardly think that they would be considered the pinnacle of high quality either, as far as the physical medium goes. I think most indie labels can agree on Rainbo, A+R, RTI, Bill Smith, and even Pirates Press. At the same time, it has been (at least in the label world) fairly common knowledge that URP sucks ass. They used to be cheap as all hell, so smaller labels gambled with em anyway, but nowdays they are just as expensive if not more than other places, seems most labels have moved on. And yes plants treat customers that press a record twice a month and sell tens of thousands of records a year a lot better than those of us who are happy to sell 2000 12" in a years time. Yeah at United I felt like they really had bigger and better things to worry about when I was talking to them. However, Rainbos president called me himself to apologize when they overcharged me for shipping. Nicest guy too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgrantx Posted January 10, 2010 Author Share Posted January 10, 2010 hey Zac- About how much did it cost to ship your records from Rainbo to TN? I will be doing 500 and shipping to NC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zac Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 I think it ended up being around $175 for 558 records (they do overruns). I'll look at my records once I get back to school this week and I'll let you know for sure. I'm currently at home though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddingtonb Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 I have used: Musicol(Sketchy but cheap) hi, apologies for this being my first post, i'll stick around and try to contribute. i was just wondering what specifically was sketchy about musicol, as i'm currently looking around to press a 7" for the first time and was thinking of using them. cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgeagain Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 I've used United for many projects and any issues I've had with the final product were dealt with swiftly and fairly. To say their vinyl quality is crap is a bit of an overstatement. It's fine. Their prices were jacked up pretty heavily when the vinyl resurgence started but then lowered again when the economy went to shit. I switched over to Bill Smith due to a sample issue on one of my releases and have never looked back. If United has a special that works for one of my projects I'll probably do it, but for now I am completely happy with Bill Smith. Imprint is a broker for Ross Ellis for their jackets - they print inserts/labels/etc. in-house. Ross Ellis direct is like $200 more than Imprint though, so obviously it makes sense to go through them. They do nice work and they're pretty cheap. It used to cost more like $900-1000 to do 500 LP jackets back when you had to get films made. Now you can get jackets AND inserts for less. Pirates Press is what it is. Expensive, the labels suck, and the shipping ends up being insane. They were nice and I was happy with the two projects I've done with them, but at this point the only real benefit to using them is to do wacky colored vinyl stuff - and who ISN'T doing that lately? You've seen it all by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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