Do I need a preamp?

[moonbeams]

Until now I've enjoyed great sound by running a cheap audio technica with a built in preamp directly through small computer speakers w/ a subwoofer. Sounds like a stereo for a 10th the price.

Today I picked up a Denon receiver/amp and a denon cd player. No speakers, running the little ones through the headphone jack. CD player sounds fine, but the record player is too quiet. The receiver has a phono input, so I figured that there would be no need for a preamp.

The record player has two options "line" and "phono." If the switch is on "line" everything sounds distorted. If the switch is on "phono" it's just too quiet, worse than mp3 quality.

Do I need a preamp? Any advice would be appreciated. Also, I am planning on upgrading to a pro-ject debut, soon.

Thank you for your time

[mygreatdevastator]

http://www.presonus.com/products/Detail.aspx?ProductId=16

Whenever anyone ever needs an inexpensive preamp for anything I recommend this. I use for a million different things. If you get the right 1/4 inch adapters you can use it for anything. Very very warm sound.

[mattstrike]

What model # is the Denon amp?

Is there a setting for MC/MM cartridges - or any other gain and loading setting?

[melikecheese]

yes you do.

[moonbeams]

http://www.presonus.com/products/Detail.aspx?ProductId=16

Whenever anyone ever needs an inexpensive preamp for anything I recommend this. I use for a million different things. If you get the right 1/4 inch adapters you can use it for anything. Very very warm sound.

I'll check it out, thanks

[moonbeams]

What model # is the Denon amp?

Is there a setting for MC/MM cartridges - or any other gain and loading setting?

It's a DRA-F107

[mattstrike]

The specs state that there is a MM phono stage built in.

Is your cart a MC design? I am assuming yu have checked and re-checked all the connections and made sure no interconnects are switched around? I can't imagine why the output level is so low. You don't have the tape monitor on by accident do you?

[sonix]

I've never needed a preamp, but this one seems pretty good for the price.

link

[moonbeams]

The specs state that there is a MM phono stage built in.

Is your cart a MC design? I am assuming yu have checked and re-checked all the connections and made sure no interconnects are switched around? I can't imagine why the output level is so low. You don't have the tape monitor on by accident do you?

Does cart mean cartridge? It's just a built in audio technical plastic beginners turntable. It also has a built in preamp for line. I connect it to computer speakers sounds great. But I'm upgrading soon to a project debut.

I checked the connections. On line it sounds distorted and underwater. On phono it sounds like it's muffled under a few mattresses.

[moonbeams]

I've never needed a preamp, but this one seems pretty good for the price.

link

all I have is the matching cd deck.

I was thinking about the at preamp. It's funny cause it's called a phono equalizer here but it's the same model number. But that's made to run a record player through a line and my at turntable already has something like that built in.

[mattstrike]

I assume you have the turntable's preamp turned off when plugged in to the phono section of the amplifier?

[moonbeams]

I assume you have the turntable's preamp turned off when plugged in to the phono section of the amplifier?

Yes. When I have it on phono, the quality is just really quiet and muffled compared to when I have the table on line and running directly through line speakers.

I have the receiver running through the same line speakers. However, the CD player sounds nice, so I think the set up is okay.

When I turn on the preamp, everything sounds distorted. if i bought a preamp, wouldn't it be distortes as well? but the AT preamp is $50 whereas the recordplayer i have with built in preamp is $90, so probably a better preamp

[mattstrike]

I'm not sure I understand what you're doing!

What do you mean "when I turn on the preamp"? If you have the turntable's built in preamp on while plugged in to the Denon's phono section, it will distort.

Have you tried plugging the turntable into a line level (e.g. CD) to see what it sounds like with the 'table's preamp on?

[moonbeams]

I'm not sure I understand what you're doing!

What do you mean "when I turn on the preamp"? If you have the turntable's built in preamp on while plugged in to the Denon's phono section, it will distort.

Have you tried plugging the turntable into a line level (e.g. CD) to see what it sounds like with the 'table's preamp on?

tried aux, but will try cd now..

but wouldn't I need a preamp anyway if i upgrade to a project?

[moonbeams]

CD still still muffled. Maybe it's just the natural sound..

But this sounds rad just having the line hooked up directly to the turntable.

[xxmartinxx]

Every input EXCEPT the Phono input will be at line level.

Assuming that both your turntable and stereo are functioning properly, you don't need an additional preamp. If you plug into the Phono input your turntable should be set to "phono". If you plug your turntable into any of the other inputs, your turntable should be set to "line". Either way should work.

By "muffled" do you mean noisy? If you're getting humming and making a lot of noise, you need to connect the ground from the turntable to the grounding point on your stereo.

[celebdeath]

think the pro-ject turntables will work fine through your phono input. did you buy your amp brand new? i bought a second hand Rotel amp and it used to do some weird shit with the sound - i just grew to accept it. i ended up using the Tuner input for CDs, the aux for TV. the phono worked OK though.

if the turntable sounds great going through the CD input, using the line option, sounds like theres something wrong with the phono input on the amp.

would i be correct in assuming that when using the phono option on the deck, the pre-amp stage at the deck would not operate because you're utilising the Denon's pre-amp through the phono input? if so, logically speaking, the pre-amp on the deck is working correctly because it is successfully amplifying the signal to send it via the line option to the CD input.

unless there IS something wrong with the phono output option on the deck (not the actual deck pre-amp) and it's sending a rubbish signal to a functioning phono input on the amp....

sheesh, i confuse myself with my shit sometimes.....

maybe get someone to look at the phono input on the amp, in light of yourself soon to be replacing the deck with a new one.

[moonbeams]

Every input EXCEPT the Phono input will be at line level.

Assuming that both your turntable and stereo are functioning properly, you don't need an additional preamp. If you plug into the Phono input your turntable should be set to "phono". If you plug your turntable into any of the other inputs, your turntable should be set to "line". Either way should work.

By "muffled" do you mean noisy? If you're getting humming and making a lot of noise, you need to connect the ground from the turntable to the grounding point on your stereo.

Thanks for the help.

By muffled, I mean quiet like the speakers are under two mattresses.

Nothing helped. When I run the record player through the receiver, either line or phono sound equally muffled. But running line directly through the record player sounds crisp and live.

[moonbeams]

think the pro-ject turntables will work fine through your phono input. did you buy your amp brand new? i bought a second hand Rotel amp and it used to do some weird shit with the sound - i just grew to accept it. i ended up using the Tuner input for CDs, the aux for TV. the phono worked OK though.

if the turntable sounds great going through the CD input, using the line option, sounds like theres something wrong with the phono input on the amp.

would i be correct in assuming that when using the phono option on the deck, the pre-amp stage at the deck would not operate because you're utilising the Denon's pre-amp through the phono input? if so, logically speaking, the pre-amp on the deck is working correctly because it is successfully amplifying the signal to send it via the line option to the CD input.

unless there IS something wrong with the phono output option on the deck (not the actual deck pre-amp) and it's sending a rubbish signal to a functioning phono input on the amp....

sheesh, i confuse myself with my shit sometimes.....

maybe get someone to look at the phono input on the amp, in light of yourself soon to be replacing the deck with a new one.

I must apologize for not explaining this clearly.

The deck is brand new.

The record player has a built in line/phono switch. Hooking the TT to the deck's phono with the TT set on phono sounds muffled. Hooking the TT to a line option set on line sounds the same, muffled. Hooking the TT to the phono set on line sounds distorted.

Running line speakers directly through the TT sounds great! But makes the expensive deck pointless..

[celebdeath]

could it be that the turntable is supposed to only be a stand-alone device? that it is NOT supposed to be connected to an amplifier.

so, if you're connecting the speakers straight to the line out on the TT, the sound is great but when connecting the TT to an amplifier, it sounds all muffled. that says to me that your TT is not meant to be connected to an amp.

had a quick look at audio technica and they seem to specialise in turntable-to-computer TT's. maybe they're not really supposed to be plugged into an amp - they're produced purely for sending the signal to the computer. that's maybe why you're not getting much sound through the amp, because the TT doesn't send a strong signal through the line out. the signal is only strong enough for your computer to record it and for direct-to-line speakers/headphones.

similar scenario happens with ipods. sound great through headphones but gets very low volume through speakers because the signal is too weak to power them.

your pro-ject TT will sound awesome through the phono inputs on the Denon amp.

[xxmartinxx]

Every input EXCEPT the Phono input will be at line level.

Assuming that both your turntable and stereo are functioning properly, you don't need an additional preamp. If you plug into the Phono input your turntable should be set to "phono". If you plug your turntable into any of the other inputs, your turntable should be set to "line". Either way should work.

By "muffled" do you mean noisy? If you're getting humming and making a lot of noise, you need to connect the ground from the turntable to the grounding point on your stereo.

Thanks for the help.

By muffled, I mean quiet like the speakers are under two mattresses.

Nothing helped. When I run the record player through the receiver, either line or phono sound equally muffled. But running line directly through the record player sounds crisp and live.

How are you hooking speakers up directly to your turntable? ???

[moonbeams]

could it be that the turntable is supposed to only be a stand-alone device? that it is NOT supposed to be connected to an amplifier.

so, if you're connecting the speakers straight to the line out on the TT, the sound is great but when connecting the TT to an amplifier, it sounds all muffled. that says to me that your TT is not meant to be connected to an amp.

had a quick look at audio technica and they seem to specialise in turntable-to-computer TT's. maybe they're not really supposed to be plugged into an amp - they're produced purely for sending the signal to the computer. that's maybe why you're not getting much sound through the amp, because the TT doesn't send a strong signal through the line out. the signal is only strong enough for your computer to record it and for direct-to-line speakers/headphones.

similar scenario happens with ipods. sound great through headphones but gets very low volume through speakers because the signal is too weak to power them.

your pro-ject TT will sound awesome through the phono inputs on the Denon amp.

I appreciate that you looked that up. I have an AT-PL 300, it doesn't have a USB connection and is meant to be connected to a receiver. It has a built in line/phono switch.

But methinks it might not be the best tt..

[moonbeams]

Thanks for the help.

By muffled, I mean quiet like the speakers are under two mattresses.

Nothing helped. When I run the record player through the receiver, either line or phono sound equally muffled. But running line directly through the record player sounds crisp and live.

How are you hooking speakers up directly to your turntable? ???

They are line speakers. $60 and great sound.

[xxmartinxx]

You're talking about something that you could hook your iPod up to? I'm so confused.

[moonbeams]

Those speakers could be connected to an iPod. I run them through the headphone outlet of the receiver or directly to the tt by a Y-shaped cord that turns the red and white audio cords into one cord. It came with the tt.