xxmartinxx Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 So I've kind of painted myself into a corner with my recent phono stage upgrade. I have a VPI Scout with a newish Denon DL-103. I was using a Parasound Zphono USB, which sounded pretty damn good, but I wanted things a little more refined. I bought a Sutherland PH3D. Immediately upon installing it I knew that there wasn't enough gain in the Sutherland for the Denon. The sound was flat and dead. Bass didn't have the punch it did with the Parasound. I was hoping that maybe it would break in and sound better, but of course it never did. After a bunch of Google searching, I've basically confirmed that the 60dB that the Sutherland has available isn't enough for the Denon. So I have a few options: -Replace the phono preamp that has more gain and sell the Sutherland at a loss. (with a Rogue Triton or something else) -Buy a step up transformer. (not really a smart option) -Replace the cartridge. (with a Denon DL-110 or other, Clearaudio Concept MM, or go big and get a Dynavector 10x5) I want to just do the Dynavector cart, but if my wife finds out I paid $450 for a cartridge she'll kill me. I'm not sure which is the best way to go, so opinions welcomed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tardcore Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 let's be honest. if you're looking for somebody to talk you out of the 'go big' option, you have come to the wrong place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxmartinxx Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 I was hoping someone was going to say, "Buy a Pro-Ject Debut and a Marantz and be done with it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tardcore Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I was hoping someone was going to say, "Buy a Pro-Ject Debut and a Marantz and be done with it." to be fair, that is the correct answer to 90% of the "what should I buy" threads that come up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxmartinxx Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 I know, it's a good starter system. I just think it's funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Dude. Go big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannibal Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Only the 10? swemoll 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxmartinxx Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 Yes, only the 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requiescat Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Probably would sell the preamp and get a new one, personally. Just make sure you read up on specs and do your best to confirm synergy with the component in mind with your existing ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 -Buy a step up transformer. (not really a smart option) Why do you say that? it always used to be the preferred option for high end MC's If you were in the UK I would say talk to these guys http://www.stevens-billington.co.uk/ but there must be an equivalent in the US If you like the sound of the cartridge and you think the phono stage will sound right then these guys would probably have something of the shelf or would wind something to suit and there must be someone in the US doing a similar service, if not there is a bloody big hole in a very large market that needs exploiting. I've been using a pair of their bog standard transformers for years and have never felt I could do much better unless I spent a shed load more money, these transformers get used with my Koetsu Rosewood amongst others and work superbly well with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxmartinxx Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 Probably would sell the preamp and get a new one, personally. Just make sure you read up on specs and do your best to confirm synergy with the component in mind with your existing ones. From what I had read, 58dB should be sufficient, so I assume 60dB would be fine. I found something recently that said that is wrong and you need 60dB minimally, preferably more gain. I think I'm going to pull the trigger on a Rogue Triton. It has 65dB available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxmartinxx Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 Why do you say that? it always used to be the preferred option for high end MC's Because what's the point of buying a $1k phono preamp just to throw a SUT in front of it? If I wanted to go that route, there are cheaper MM phono preamps I could have bought that would have worked as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxmartinxx Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 I just bought a Rogue Triton. I'll give an update when I receive it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seangj Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I have the 10x5 on my Scout, and I love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxmartinxx Posted June 29, 2014 Author Share Posted June 29, 2014 I received the Rogue yesterday. I haven't A/B-ed them, but with 65dB of gain, the Denon sounds more dynamic than with the Sutherland. I started with 100 ohms and moved up to 300 ohms. It was a little thin sounding at 100 ohm, 300 ohms thickened things up nicely. The Rogue is fairly detailed without being bright or harsh. There is no graininess to the sound, but it's not overly smoothed out, either. Bass is solid, midrange well voiced, and the highs airy without being too delicate. I still want to mess with more loading settings and I've only used 150pF of capacitance, so I'm going to play with that, too. So far, so good though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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