TURTABLE/SYSTEM QUESTIONS

[pjaicomo]

The other thread seems to have died off, so if a mod wants to move this that is cool:

OK OK OK, I have read through most of the Help Me Choose thread, and now I would like to ask some questions. Any help would be much appreciated.

I am about to create my own little setup and I wanted to see what people thought. I am fairly new to vinyl, but I have the beginnings of a pretty nice collection, so I want a decent setup to spin them on.

My plan (as of now) is to buy a Pro-Ject Debut III USB and connect it directly to my Sony LBT-D290 (5 disc changer), which I am pretty sure it has a phono input . . .

Here are my questions:

1. Do I need the USB/preamp aspect of the Debut or will the Sony take care of it?

2. Is the Debut III USB a good turntable (I know there have been some comments about it)?

3. Will it sound bad if I run it through the Sony?

Just give me some general thoughts, and I will probably ask some more questions.

Thanks all.

ps Non-vinyl question. How good or bad can a CD player actually get, I saw one the other day for over a thousand that supposedly optimized all settings etc. What is the deal?

[ronniethebear]

I've never seen a standalone CD changer with a phono input, so I could be wrong, but I think you're going to need a receiver. And if you're going to drop the cash on a nice turntable like a Pro-Ject, I wouldn't skimp on the other components.

[pjaicomo]

The CD player isn't a standalone. Its a receiver/tape deck/cd player stereo rig.

There is a picture of it here: http://di1.shopping.com/images1/pi/74/13/50/29592-177x150-0-0.jpg

[voodooramen]

Yeah unless that cd thing is a combo cd player/receiver, I have no idea how you will amplify your records into speakers. No idea on the preamp part since I have no clue about the sony device.

The Project debut III is, from what I have heard time and again, a great starter table. Never heard any big issues with it. Don't spend extra for the USB capabilities if you dont need it though.

As far as cd player quality goes, don't bother spending big bucks on a deck unless you have the receiver and speakers to go with it. The difference between a $100 cd player and $1000 one is much smaller than the difference between a $100 turntable and a $1000 one.

[corbet]

Don't get the USB model. It's useless, you can just plug your turntable into most computers audio-in port and record from there.

[xxmartinxx]

That stereo does have a phono input. That table has a built in phono pre-amp. So I agree that the odds are, you don't need the USB version.

Keep in mind, that table is manual. That means, to start and to stop a record, you need to physically pick up the tone arm. Some people find that off-putting. Also, to change to 45 to 33 and back, you need to remove the platter to do so. I know that when I had my Music Hall MMF5, that drove me insane.

[pjaicomo]

Ok, so if I get the plain old Debut III, will I be able to plug it directly into that Sony stereo?

Let me just ask this then:

I have $500 to spend and that stereo, what should I buy to get the best sound possible out of my records?

[ps]

Also, to change to 45 to 33 and back, you need to remove the platter to do so. I know that when I had my Music Hall MMF5, that drove me insane.

Your VPI doesn't require you to move the belt for playing 33/45?

[celebdeath]

Ok, so if I get the plain old Debut III, will I be able to plug it directly into that Sony stereo?

if the sony has a PHONO input, then you are grand. if it only has an AUX input, you will need a phono stage. you would then plug the turntable into the phono stage, then the phone stage into the AUX input. unless, of course, if the Debut III has an inbult pre-amp. if thats the case, you will not need a phono stage - you can plug it straight into the AUX input.

HOWEVER, and please guys correct me if i'm wrong, if you plug a turntable into an AUX input, you shorten the life of the AUX input because a small electric charge is sent through, from the turntable, with the sound signal. hence why a PHONO input is required (amplifies the sound AND takes care of this small electric charge).

[xxmartinxx]

Ok, so if I get the plain old Debut III, will I be able to plug it directly into that Sony stereo?

Let me just ask this then:

I have $500 to spend and that stereo, what should I buy to get the best sound possible out of my records?

From what I saw on the one I found on eBay, yes. It has a phono input and an Aux type input. So you should be good to go.

I think you are on the right track to getting the most for your money.

[celebdeath]

I have $500 to spend and that stereo, what should I buy to get the best sound possible out of my records?

personally, i'd ditch the stereo and get a integrated receiver, the turntable and a CD player.

i have a rotel amp, a sony CD player and a Goldring GR1.2 turntable - the lot bought for just under $500 and the sound is fantastic. you can always add on a tuner for the radio later. tuner components are readily available for cheap.

i had a mini system similar to yours and the increase in sound quality when i bought these components was huge.

i use the same speakers from that old system too. it's really incredible the difference a decent amplifier makes to your sound.

[xxmartinxx]

Also, to change to 45 to 33 and back, you need to remove the platter to do so. I know that when I had my Music Hall MMF5, that drove me insane.

Your VPI doesn't require you to move the belt for playing 33/45?

It does, however the motor is on the side of the table. See the picture below.

So, I just have to move the belt from gear to gear.

On the Debut III, the motor is under the platter. See the picture below.

You actually have to pick that platter up and change the speed. I found that system extremely annoying, especially with punk/hc 7"s which can be either 33 or 45.

[pjaicomo]

Alright, thanks.

If I can get an Xpression III for $200 more than the Debut III is it worth the extra money there or should I spend it on better speakers or something?

Celeb, how did you get all that for under 500?

[xxmartinxx]

Ok, so if I get the plain old Debut III, will I be able to plug it directly into that Sony stereo?

HOWEVER, and please guys correct me if i'm wrong, if you plug a turntable into an AUX input, you shorten the life of the AUX input because a small electric charge is sent through, from the turntable, with the sound signal. hence why a PHONO input is required (amplifies the sound AND takes care of this small electric charge).

Not true. An "aux input" is made for high volume devices. A turntable is a very low output device. If you only have an AUX input, you need to get a phono pre-amp to amplify the signal to a level high enough for an AUX input.

[ps]

Your VPI doesn't require you to move the belt for playing 33/45?

It does, however the motor is on the side of the table. See the picture below.

So, I just have to move the belt from gear to gear.

On the Debut III, the motor is under the platter. See the picture below.

You actually have to pick that platter up and change the speed. I found that system extremely annoying, especially with punk/hc 7"s which can be either 33 or 45.

Ah, I see now... that would be easier. I have a Music Hall and it does get annoying to pull the platter off every time.

[xxmartinxx]

Alright, thanks.

If I can get an Xpression III for $200 more than the Debut III is it worth the extra money there or should I spend it on better speakers or something?

Celeb, how did you get all that for under 500?

That's not going to be worth the upgrade, in my opinion. You'd be better off saving the money towards these speakers :

http://www.axiomaudio.com/m3.html

You might also want to compare Goldring and Music Hall tables in that price range. They all make similar products.

[celebdeath]

HOWEVER, and please guys correct me if i'm wrong, if you plug a turntable into an AUX input, you shorten the life of the AUX input because a small electric charge is sent through, from the turntable, with the sound signal. hence why a PHONO input is required (amplifies the sound AND takes care of this small electric charge).

Not true. An "aux input" is made for high volume devices. A turntable is a very low output device. If you only have an AUX input, you need to get a phono pre-amp to amplify the signal to a level high enough for an AUX input.

yeah, i said that in the same post - you need a phono stage if connecting to an aux input...

what i was alluding to was the fact (and i think its a fact) that turntables send a small electic current through their RCA jacks, so if you WERE plugging it into AUX inputs, you're also sending electricity to them, thus shortening their life. if your turntable has a in-built pre-amp (therefore not requiring a seperate phone stage), then connecting it to the AUX input would get you the amplified sound you want but would also kill the input (eventually) becuase, unlike PHONO inputs, AUX inputs are not equipped to handle the electric current.

[xxmartinxx]

Not true. An "aux input" is made for high volume devices. A turntable is a very low output device. If you only have an AUX input, you need to get a phono pre-amp to amplify the signal to a level high enough for an AUX input.

yeah, i said that in the same post - you need a phono stage if connecting to an aux input...

what i was alluding to was the fact (and i think its a fact) that turntables send a small electic current through their RCA jacks, so if you WERE plugging it into AUX inputs, you're also sending electricity to them, thus shortening their life. if your turntable has a in-built pre-amp (therefore not requiring a seperate phone stage), then connecting it to the AUX input would get you the amplified sound you want but would also kill the input (eventually) becuase, unlike PHONO inputs, AUX inputs are not equipped to handle the electric current.

Turntables are inherently passive devices. The cartridge is not powered, it picks up vibrations using a magnet (or sometimes a coil). It is similar to a passive magnetic guitar pickup. Infact, one of the first electric guitar prototype used a phono cartridge as a pickup. The power needed to run a turntable is only to spin the record (and perhaps move the tone arm, etc if your table is equipped with such a device).

[melikecheese]

Alright, thanks.

If I can get an Xpression III for $200 more than the Debut III is it worth the extra money there or should I spend it on better speakers or something?

Celeb, how did you get all that for under 500?

That's not going to be worth the upgrade, in my opinion. You'd be better off saving the money towards these speakers :

http://www.axiomaudio.com/m3.html

You might also want to compare Goldring and Music Hall tables in that price range. They all make similar products.

Yes, Music Hall table is your best bet for a entry level table.

http://www.avguide.com/products/product-3286/

As far as speakers go I would really recommend you get some used speakers, I cant recall a brand name but look for large floor speakers that have solid WOOD cabinets. You'll get the best sound out of that in my opinion (and from personal experience) and can probably pick up a pair for about 100 bucks from a second hand store or eBay.

[celebdeath]

yeah, i said that in the same post - you need a phono stage if connecting to an aux input...

what i was alluding to was the fact (and i think its a fact) that turntables send a small electic current through their RCA jacks, so if you WERE plugging it into AUX inputs, you're also sending electricity to them, thus shortening their life. if your turntable has a in-built pre-amp (therefore not requiring a seperate phone stage), then connecting it to the AUX input would get you the amplified sound you want but would also kill the input (eventually) becuase, unlike PHONO inputs, AUX inputs are not equipped to handle the electric current.

Turntables are inherently passive devices. The cartridge is not powered, it picks up vibrations using a magnet (or sometimes a coil). It is similar to a passive magnetic guitar pickup. Infact, one of the first electric guitar prototype used a phono cartridge as a pickup. The power needed to run a turntable is only to spin the record (and perhaps move the tone arm, etc if your table is equipped with such a device).

i just heard somewhere that there was this electric charge business. ???

maybe my source was full of it.

[xxmartinxx]

Turntables are inherently passive devices. The cartridge is not powered, it picks up vibrations using a magnet (or sometimes a coil). It is similar to a passive magnetic guitar pickup. Infact, one of the first electric guitar prototype used a phono cartridge as a pickup. The power needed to run a turntable is only to spin the record (and perhaps move the tone arm, etc if your table is equipped with such a device).

i just heard somewhere that there was this electric charge business. ???

maybe my source was full of it.

Must be. The only thing I plug into a wall on my turntable is the motor, which isn't connected to the rest of the table.

[voodooramen]

Yeah martin explained it well, the cartridge and output are passive. The guitar mention actually could be used as a good comparison here, if you understand guitars. The pickups are magnetic, passive, and just pick up vibrations sending them as a very weak signal that needs to be amplified.

Definitely upgrade as much as you can with the system, don't spend it all on just the turntable.

[gristlejaw]

Anyone else have a vintage Sony PS-FL7 II? I have one of these in my living room system (i have a better vintage belt-driven Pioneer hooked up to my computer for converung to digital) and i love it. Great looks and the front loading feature is soo sweet. i don't hve pics of mine but here's an ebay listing with good pics. -jc

http://cgi.ebay.com/SONY-STEREO-TURNTABLE-SYSTEM-PS-FL7II-VERY-NICE_W0QQitemZ250239263732QQihZ015QQcategoryZ48649QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[xxmartinxx]

Anyone else have a vintage Sony PS-FL7 II? I have one of these in my living room system (i have a better vintage belt-driven Pioneer hooked up to my computer for converung to digital) and i love it. Great looks and the front loading feature is soo sweet. i don't hve pics of mine but here's an ebay listing with good pics. -jc

http://cgi.ebay.com/SONY-STEREO-TURNTABLE-SYSTEM-PS-FL7II-VERY-NICE_W0QQitemZ250239263732QQihZ015QQcategoryZ48649QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

That's a neat table. Not a lot of tables out there with an arm like it. Good for inner groove tracking. P-Mount cart, which is better that not being able to change it.

Do you have any problems playing clear vinyl on it? The manual says that it might.

[gristlejaw]

Not that i remember. I'll have to check that out for sure (it uses a light beam to identify the presence and size of the vinyl).