Il_Presidente Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Well, hi everyone, this is my first post. I signed in because this issue is driving me crazy and I’m desperately looking for a solution. It seems that I have an issue with my setup: there is a constant buzzing noise and I can’t get rid of it. I hope someone here can help. Turntable Pro-Ject Debut Carbon DC with Ortofon 2M Red cartridgePhono pre-amp Pro-Ject Phono Box Amplifier Pioneer VSX-818V Speakers Indiana Line Tesi 542 I get this annoying static noise/humming as soon as I turn on the amp and swtich it to AUX channel. I don’t need to crank up the volume, it is always audible. I’ve got other stuff plugged to the amp, all digital (tv, blu-ray, media player), none suffering from the same issue.Things I’ve done: -To move any component (turntable, preamp…) or to touch the cables doesn’t affect the noise. -TT is connected with preamp using the default Debut cable: shielded, gold-plated and grounded. If I disconnect the ground the noise gets worse. -Preamp was connected to amp with an entry-level cable. I upgraded to a better one, double shielded and gold plated (we are talking about a 20 euros price anyway) but nothing changes. -If I touch the connections between cartridge and arm the noise gets worse (is it my body acting as an antenna?) -Preamp has a MM/MC switch (2M Red is MM). If I switch to MC the noise disappears but of course sound quality is deeply affected. -I tried to get rid of the amp: I hooked both TT and preamp to my computer (which is placed in another room, by the way), using a rca stereo cable plugged into an external Sound Blaster box. Nothing changes, noise again.-I bought a Hama shielding filter, supposedly a ‘ground loop breaker’. Tried connecting it everywhere but nothing changes, it gets worse. -Power units (TT and preamp) are connected in the same plug as the amplifier. I tried several sockets/plugs but nothing changes. Additional info: -I tried a couple of TTs. One being an old 70s Technics, beaten down and unreliable (even worse noise). The other one was an Audio-Technica with built-in phono (thus skipping my Phono Box) and this one showed no noise or humming. I’m sorry but I can’t remember the model…I don’t even know if it had a MC or MM cartridge…but for sure it was less expensive than the Debut Carbon. -In another house, I tried and plugged both TT and preamp to a Yamaha YHT-S401 soundbar and the noise disappeared (well there was just a low end noise but I had to crank up the volume to hear it). Any idea? Tomorrow I will go and buy an additional ground plug to ground the preamp, it’s the only other thing I can imagine to try, even if I doubt I’m actually affected by a ground loop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas³ Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Try plugging the ground directly into the ground on the amp, by-passing the preamp. It could be the Pro-ject too. Some are known to suffer from hum issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il_Presidente Posted May 20, 2016 Author Share Posted May 20, 2016 Actually I have just one cable with the ground extension, and I use it to plug TT and preamp. Are you suggesting to switch this cable with the other one plugged, and ground preamp and amp? Do you mean the pro-ject TT or the phono box? I tried them in another house and they work fine...I will try them again tomorrow, in another house with another amplifier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) Have you made sure all your cartridge cables are connected properly? Have you made sure the tonearm ground is in place? See that small screw slightly to the right of the cartridge connections? Check there as well. Or as Thomas said, there has been manufacturing issues with hum. There's an internal cable that has bad solder points if I remember correctly. Edited May 20, 2016 by ajxd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il_Presidente Posted May 20, 2016 Author Share Posted May 20, 2016 Thank you, I will check the cartridge connections asap. By looking at them everything seems fine, but I have to test their connection still. What about the small screw? WhaT's its correct position? Anyway, I doubt that it has something to do with the TT. I tried it in another place and everything was fine. Tomorrow I will hook it up to yet another amplifier in another house. Maybe it's stupid but...I have a telecom central near home...could it be the one generating some interference for the cartridge to pick up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Ah- re-read and missed the part of trying another table. A lot points to the preamp. 2 hours ago, Il_Presidente said: I get this annoying static noise/humming as soon as I turn on the amp and swtich it to AUX channel. I don’t need to crank up the volume, it is always audible. I’ve got other stuff plugged to the amp, all digital (tv, blu-ray, media player), none suffering from the same issue. I'm assuming these are all digital... so non-issue. -TT is connected with preamp using the default Debut cable: shielded, gold-plated and grounded. If I disconnect the ground the noise gets worse. Gotta have the ground. -Preamp was connected to amp with an entry-level cable. I upgraded to a better one, double shielded and gold plated (we are talking about a 20 euros price anyway) but nothing changes. This means its not the cables. -If I touch the connections between cartridge and arm the noise gets worse (is it my body acting as an antenna?) Yeah those don't like to be touched, check to see if they're strong connections. -Preamp has a MM/MC switch (2M Red is MM). If I switch to MC the noise disappears but of course sound quality is deeply affected. 2M Red means MM. Its not MC, don't mess with that. The MM channel could be bad on the Pre. -I tried to get rid of the amp: I hooked both TT and preamp to my computer (which is placed in another room, by the way), using a rca stereo cable plugged into an external Sound Blaster box. Nothing changes, noise again. So its not the amp, its either TT or Pre. -I bought a Hama shielding filter, supposedly a ‘ground loop breaker’. Tried connecting it everywhere but nothing changes, it gets worse. I don't know what this is exactly, but if its worse, no use. -Power units (TT and preamp) are connected in the same plug as the amplifier. I tried several sockets/plugs but nothing changes. I'm assuming the AC Adaptor for the Preamp is the correct one? Additional info: -I tried a couple of TTs. One being an old 70s Technics, beaten down and unreliable (even worse noise). The other one was an Audio-Technica with built-in phono (thus skipping my Phono Box) and this one showed no noise or humming. I’m sorry but I can’t remember the model…I don’t even know if it had a MC or MM cartridge…but for sure it was less expensive than the Debut Carbon. This means its not the TT, its the Preamp. -In another house, I tried and plugged both TT and preamp to a Yamaha YHT-S401 soundbar and the noise disappeared (well there was just a low end noise but I had to crank up the volume to hear it). Meaning its still there... meaning its the Preamp. Conclusion: Preamp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il_Presidente Posted May 20, 2016 Author Share Posted May 20, 2016 Yeah. The more I think about it, the more I realize all clues point to the preamp. The only thing holding me back is that I tried both TT and preamp with a soundbar (in another home) and they worked fine AND I forgot to mention that I actually have another cheap preamp (15 bucks), I tried to use it but the noise gets even worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas³ Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Il_Presidente said: Actually I have just one cable with the ground extension, and I use it to plug TT and preamp. Are you suggesting to switch this cable with the other one plugged, and ground preamp and amp? Do you mean the pro-ject TT or the phono box? I tried them in another house and they work fine...I will try them again tomorrow, in another house with another amplifier. Bypass the preamp with the ground cable, go TT to amp. Also the motor screws, used to hold it in place during shipping have been known to cause hum issues on their tables. Edited May 20, 2016 by Thomas³ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il_Presidente Posted May 20, 2016 Author Share Posted May 20, 2016 I'm sorry but I can't figure how to do that: the ground cable is part of the cable that connectsa TT with preamp. I can't connect the TT directly to the amp because neither have phono exit (that's why I need preamp in the first place). Yes I heard about the motor screws but it was on earlier models and I don't get that kind of hum -I guess-. Anyway I will try to play with those screws too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas³ Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 The amp has a ground, but no preamp? Weird. Other suggestion is make your own ground cable, and connect it to the TT and amp (or the splice it on the end of the existing ground wire to reach). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il_Presidente Posted May 20, 2016 Author Share Posted May 20, 2016 Later I'll ground the shit out of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 1 hour ago, Thomas³ said: The amp has a ground, but no preamp? Weird. Other suggestion is make your own ground cable, and connect it to the TT and amp (or the splice it on the end of the existing ground wire to reach). I mean, any screw can be a ground on the amp. But its doesn't have a dedicated ground nor phono. Don't worry about splicing or anything like that, just take a wire from the TT and to a grounding point. KISS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas³ Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 19 minutes ago, ajxd said: I mean, any screw can be a ground on the amp. But its doesn't have a dedicated ground nor phono. Don't worry about splicing or anything like that, just take a wire from the TT and to a grounding point. KISS. Very true. I was not sure if the Project had a built in ground post, or if since it was attached to the RCA cables it came off one of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannibal Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) As you mentioned, it could be interference in your home. The pre made no noise at someone else's house, and a cheaper pre made even MORE noise. So, while yes, it's the pre, it's indirectly the pre. Edited May 20, 2016 by kannibal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il_Presidente Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 Ok, I experimented a bit. I'm quite sure now it's not a bad ground issue. I mean, ok if I take away a ground cable it gets worse, but everything is properly grounded and any extra ground cable doesn't change a thing. You must excuse my english (I'm Italian) but I have to describe the noise again: it is not a humming (the usual bad-ground low-pitched humming) but more properly it's a high-pitched hissing. I went to a friend's house and I hooked up TT and preamp to his Onkyo amplifier...and we got the same issue. I guess that, the time I tried with the Yamaha soundbar, it worked because the bar is not powerful enough or somehow it cuts those high frequencies. Am I a dick that can't even set his own amp? Well maybe. I'm a newbie with analog audio, but come on it can't be so difficult to hook up TT! Do I really have to look into the amp EQ and trim the frequencies?!? Anyway, I really hope it's nothing related to the turntable. I don't want to open it up and check if the wiring is done properly...but then again what sould I do? Change preamp? Change cartridge? I spent already more than 400 euros for TT + preamp, I can't believe a friend of mine with a cheap Audio-Technica plugged into a mini hi-fi is doing better :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 If its not a ground problem and a high pitched sound doesnt sound like a ground problem so it could be feedback possibly, or a cartridge mismatch but thats unlikely or possibly a faulty phono stage. Are any speakers very close to the turntable? Is it possible to try the phono stage with your friends turntable and amplifier? Is it possible to try your turntable with your friends phono stage and amplifier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il_Presidente Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 15 minutes ago, allenh said: If its not a ground problem and a high pitched sound doesnt sound like a ground problem so it could be feedback possibly, or a cartridge mismatch but thats unlikely or possibly a faulty phono stage. Are any speakers very close to the turntable? Is it possible to try the phono stage with your friends turntable and amplifier? Is it possible to try your turntable with your friends phono stage and amplifier? No, speakers are not close to the TT My friends have TTs with built in preamp. I could try the phono stage just with the Technics TT...but it was so bad already that I can't consider thisa a proper test. I tried to hook up the TT to the Onkyo without preamp. That Onkyo had no phono stage but somehow it manage to produce some sounds (we had to turn up the volume to unimaginable levels...) well it was soft but we couldn't hear the hissing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Ok try the Technics and your phono stage with the other amplifier, as it did it with your turntable and phono stage into your friends amplifier if it still does it with the Technics the chances are it's the phono stage and if it doesn't then the chances are it's your cartridge or cabling in the turntable, my money is on the phono stage though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il_Presidente Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 Problem with the Technics is that the cartridge is MC (it's a late '70s TT). When I switch the phono stage to MC it doesn't give the hissing already. Well sound with the Technicsa was a mess anyway, but for other reasons. Now that we are at it, what would be a good phono stage for the Ortofon 2M Red? My Pro-Ject phono box cost already over 100 euros... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 you need to get something you can use to check the phono stage so do any of your friends turntables have a switch to shut off the internal phono stage? And make sure you know where the problem is before you spend any more money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il_Presidente Posted May 24, 2016 Author Share Posted May 24, 2016 Ok I ran again severl tests: -TT + preamp + amp = noise -TT + preamp + amp (but using another entrance instead of AUX) = again, noise - just preamp + amp (no TT plugged) = NO noise (someone suggested to try this, too) -TT + amp = noise I thought nothing could come out (as my amp has no phono) but actually I can hear something if I crank the volume all the way up So, I started focusing on just the TT. Back in the day I tried with a cheaper preamp, too, and the hissing noise was even worse. Removing the plate, I tried to play a little with the motor's screws but nothing changes I inspected the internal wiring: the wires that come from the cartrige, all the way inside the tonearm up to the rca jacks seem properly connected. Four wires, two for each channel and the ground wire, too. I can't tell if there is something wrong with the power unit...so I'll start focusing on the cartridge...I'll try to unplug/re-plug the tiny wires... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Well you've pretty much proved the problem is in your TT somewhere. If it's still under gaurantee take it back, if not then you can mount the cart from your Technics in it and try that. Also if you have a test meter you can check between all the wires including ground without the cart connected and all should be open circuit (no resistance or a very very high one depending on your meter). dont meter the cart as it is possible to damage the coils that way. If there is a problem with the power supply and it's breaking through into the audio then that still means there is a shielding problem as it shouldnt but you could have high RF being produced in the power supply, the only way you can test this without lots of test equipment is with a replacement but you could try just plugging the PSU in on its own and put a cheap radio next to it and see if you can tune into the sound. To be honest I'd be trying to talk to whoever you bought it from first though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il_Presidente Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 Well, up again just for completeness' sake. I brought TT and phono to a serious workshop and it turned out that...they are fine. Totally. In the end it seems that the problem lies within my very own flat. Looks like the Telecom central nearby causes too much interference and the TT picks it up. This thing happens also to my electric guitars (minus the one with active pickups) Well, looks like I can forget about analog audio.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 I think someone suggested that further up and at least you know for sure now. I would move, that or blow up the Telecom place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdz68 Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 I have one random thought for the OP.... I have my system in a very big room with many overhead lights. I also have lutron wireless controllers and when I turn one bank of lights on in said room, the buzzing sound thru my speakers is insane! Apparently the lutron wireless switch connectors for the lights cause interference. If I turn that bank of lights off, the noise goes away completely! SHowed it to my contractor (who happens to be family) and he just laughed! Anyways, it may not be your case but try turning off all the lights in the room..... Its a million to one chance but when we were setting up my rig, my audio guy saw the switches and immediately knew of the issue! Hope it helps and if not, at least in the future be wary of lutron wireless controllers! HA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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