Paypal dispute problems!

[woolage]

I sold a record to someone who posts on this board and he has filed a paypal dispute against me. He lives in Australia and I live in the UK.

I kept good communication with the buyer and posted his record on the 5th of Jan. It's been 20 days since i posted this, and i have proof of postage, and he has filed a dispute against me.

Does anyone think he's being extremely impatient? He has filed a claim against me, basically suggesting that I have not sent his item. He has not, however, asked to see proof of postage. He did not ask for the record to be insured or be sent recorded delivery.

Any other sellers had problems with buyers being impatient and filing unnecessary paypal claims?

[thesack18]

ok relax mate. ive never once accused you of not sending it. i havent asked for proof because i believe youve sent it. like i said. but its not my fault it takes you two weeks to post it from payment. the only reason i am filing a claim is because i want to cover my ass before paypal says its been too long. thats all. ive told you this three times now. if you cant understand that then thats your problem. sure, it may be unneccesary and impatient if it had been two weeks (not sure when 20 days became two weeks but whatever) from payment, but payment was on the 18th of december. 42 days ago.

[trev]

That's pretty lame if he's maintained good communication, you get something like six weeks to file a paypal claim I think, so it's a bit over zealous if nothing else.

[chiefwahoo]

If you hadn't waited two weeks to send the record from the time he paid you, he wouldn't have to cover his ass. Paypal has strict timelines. Personally, I'd have probably been content with a scan of the receipt, but it's his choice. Sounds like he waited as long as he could before filing the claim. And it sounds like he tried to explain that this wasn't a malicious action but a "just in case" situation. I can personally understand it and it wouldn't upset me. And I can also see where it would bother someone else.

[woolage]

ok relax mate. ive never once accused you of not sending it. i havent asked for proof because i believe youve sent it. like i said. but its not my fault it takes you two weeks to post it from payment. the only reason i am filing a claim is because i want to cover my ass before paypal says its been too long. thats all. ive told you this three times now. if you cant understand that then thats your problem.

i don't know what to say to that. i'm sorry it took me a while to send your record but i kept you informed with everything. it's been 20 days for a record to travel half way across the world and you're filing a paypal claim against me. ???

sorry to sound overly harsh but if you were afraid of your record getting lost you should have asked for insurance on it or had it sent recorded delivery (both things i said i would do).

i have sent your record the way you asked and if it's got lost i don't think i should be left out of pocket either. buyers seem to have no rights at all with things like this.

i'm also really disappointed that you filed a claim against me before discussing options with me first.

i guess i'm getting to old for all this now. there seems to be no patience or trust left in punk anymore.

[thesack18]

ive said all i needed. if it comes, ill drop the claim. if it doesnt, then ill let paypal take its course and you should have no worries getting out of it. not a big deal

[woolage]

If you hadn't waited two weeks to send the record from the time he paid you, he wouldn't have to cover his ass. Paypal has strict timelines. Personally, I'd have probably been content with a scan of the receipt, but it's his choice. Sounds like he waited as long as he could before filing the claim. And it sounds like he tried to explain that this wasn't a malicious action but a "just in case" situation. I can personally understand it and it wouldn't upset me. And I can also see where it would bother someone else.

but i kept him informed. shit happens and sending his record was not on the top of my to do list just after xmas and losing my job.

i sent his record and have proof of doing so. would you not ask to see proof of postage before filing a paypal dispute? hell, he didn't even make any attempt to resolve this with me before filing the dispute!

ive had records go missing before so now always ask for insurance on a package coming from abroard. the buyer has to take responsibility when dealing with the postal services too. why should the seller lose out if he's done nothing wrong?

please, i don't want to argue here, i'm just interested on peoples thoughts because i think this is insane!

[chiefwahoo]

If you hadn't waited two weeks to send the record from the time he paid you, he wouldn't have to cover his ass. Paypal has strict timelines. Personally, I'd have probably been content with a scan of the receipt, but it's his choice. Sounds like he waited as long as he could before filing the claim. And it sounds like he tried to explain that this wasn't a malicious action but a "just in case" situation. I can personally understand it and it wouldn't upset me. And I can also see where it would bother someone else.

but i kept him informed. shit happens and sending his record was not on the top of my to do list just after xmas and losing my job.

i sent his record and have proof of doing so. would you not ask to see proof of postage before filing a paypal dispute? hell, he didn't even make any attempt to resolve this with me before filing the dispute!

ive had records go missing before so now always ask for insurance on a package coming from abroard. the buyer has to take responsibility when dealing with the postal services too. why should the seller lose out if he's done nothing wrong?

please, i don't want to argue here, i'm just interested on peoples thoughts because i think this is insane!

I'm certainly not arguing, just offering up my opinion because you started a thread asking for it. Your first sentence alone would concern me if I was him. If I'm paid for anything or to do anything, it's immediately at the top of my list.

The paypal dispute is a two step process. It sounds like this guy took step one to leave the option open in the event there's a problem. I believe he has another 60 days to escalate it. The odds of a claim needing to happen are slim to none. I can understand where it's freaking you out, especially if you don't do a ton of transactions, but the guy just seems to be playing it safe.

I'm not saying I'd take the actions that this guy did, but I can see why he did it and I don't think he's trying to screw you.

[justindinealone]

ive said all i needed. if it comes, ill drop the claim. if it doesnt, then ill let paypal take its course and you should have no worries getting out of it. not a big deal

situation sucks, but this is fair. hes being straight with it..

[brentoage]

If you hadn't waited two weeks to send the record from the time he paid you, he wouldn't have to cover his ass. Paypal has strict timelines. Personally, I'd have probably been content with a scan of the receipt, but it's his choice. Sounds like he waited as long as he could before filing the claim. And it sounds like he tried to explain that this wasn't a malicious action but a "just in case" situation. I can personally understand it and it wouldn't upset me. And I can also see where it would bother someone else.

but i kept him informed. shit happens and sending his record was not on the top of my to do list just after xmas and losing my job.

i sent his record and have proof of doing so. would you not ask to see proof of postage before filing a paypal dispute? hell, he didn't even make any attempt to resolve this with me before filing the dispute!

ive had records go missing before so now always ask for insurance on a package coming from abroard. the buyer has to take responsibility when dealing with the postal services too. why should the seller lose out if he's done nothing wrong?

please, i don't want to argue here, i'm just interested on peoples thoughts because i think this is insane!

dude, if you waited 2 weeks to send the record from the date of payment, it's your own fault.

it's already been said, but the paypal process has very strict time lines and your inability to send the record right away is going to end up biting you in the ass this time around.

showing proof of shipment is part of the paypal dispute process. the buyer has done nothing wrong here. if he waits any longer, he is completely out of luck if the record fails to arrive.

send your records as quickly as possible. 2 weeks is not acceptable, especially considering that the buyer is the one paying for shipping. not you.

[dreamover]

ok relax mate.

haha... he said mate.

people can't get emotional about this stuff. you gotta do what you gotta do. buyer doesn't know seller, and although we'd all like to believe and trust eachother, he doesn't know 100% for sure you're not lying. i've dealt with tons of people who have lied about stuff before on ebay and such. Dealth with a label that i made two orders from and they never sent me anything. They kept saying it was in the mail, and it never came, and it was too late for me to file a claim and they stopped answering my emails. (BIG SCARY MONSTERS RECORDS, DON'T BUY FROM THEM!) Buyer has to do it to cover his ass, just in case you are lying, eventhough it wouldn't seem you are. But for all we know, you are really a 74 year old ex-con in oklahoma. If you have proof of shipment, you have nothing to worry about.

[woolage]

ok relax mate.

haha... he said mate.

people can't get emotional about this stuff. you gotta do what you gotta do. buyer doesn't know seller, and although we'd all like to believe and trust eachother, he doesn't know 100% for sure you're not lying. i've dealt with tons of people who have lied about stuff before on ebay and such. Dealth with a label that i made two orders from and they never send me anything. They kept saying it was in the mail, and it never came, and it was too late for me to file a claim and they stopped answering my emails. (BIG SCARY MONSTERS RECORDS, DON'T BUY FROM THEM!) Buyer has to do it to cover his ass, just in case you are lying, eventhough it wouldn't seem you are. But for all we know, you are really a 74 year old ex-con in oklahoma. If you have proof of shipment, you have nothing to worry about.

and i don't know 100% that he hasn't received the lp and is just trying to fiddle me out of £35 (although i'm pretty sure he isn't)

thing is, i have proof of postage. i'm just surprised he hasn't asked to see it before filing the claim. i'm also surprised that he hasn't made any real attempt to sort this out before making the claim.

if the package has got lost in transit (i obviously hope not) and i have proof it was sent, what more can i do? don't you agree that the buyer has to take responsibility when purchasing an item online?

[hickey]

I'm with Jeremy on this one. You get 45 days from payment to file a paypal claim. He waited 42 days and wanted to file a claim in case the record never arrived. If he had waited much longer, he couldn't file it...

Yes, you kept him informed, but that still doesn't get the record in his hands before time runs out. Also, and I'm not saying you did this, a few people on here fudge the truth a little about when they ship records.

I recently got burned for a good chunk of cash from a German label that said they sent my records, so I waited patiently and didn't file a claim. Records never showed, now the label wants me to send more money for them to ship the records...so either I pay up, or I'm out the original amount I paid in AUGUST. Had I filed a claim when I could have, I would have my money back and all would be well.

[hickey]

and i don't know 100% that he hasn't received the lp and is just trying to fiddle me out of £35 (although i'm pretty sure he isn't)

I've traded with Jeremy before and I can assure you he is a 100% stand up guy who would never try to screw you over.

[chiefwahoo]

don't you agree that the buyer has to take responsibility when purchasing an item online?

Unfortunately, that's for Paypal to decide. But yes, I agree. If the record never showed and you produced a receipt, I would not file a claim just because the post office fucked up. This guy hasn't taken it to that level yet. Just a preliminary step.

I've bought and sold hundreds of records internationally and I've never had one lost in the mail. Ever. So try not to get yourself too worked up. No reason it shouldn't work out fine.

[brentoage]

haha... he said mate.

people can't get emotional about this stuff. you gotta do what you gotta do. buyer doesn't know seller, and although we'd all like to believe and trust eachother, he doesn't know 100% for sure you're not lying. i've dealt with tons of people who have lied about stuff before on ebay and such. Dealth with a label that i made two orders from and they never send me anything. They kept saying it was in the mail, and it never came, and it was too late for me to file a claim and they stopped answering my emails. (BIG SCARY MONSTERS RECORDS, DON'T BUY FROM THEM!) Buyer has to do it to cover his ass, just in case you are lying, eventhough it wouldn't seem you are. But for all we know, you are really a 74 year old ex-con in oklahoma. If you have proof of shipment, you have nothing to worry about.

and i don't know 100% that he hasn't received the lp and is just trying to fiddle me out of £35 (although i'm pretty sure he isn't)

thing is, i have proof of postage. i'm just surprised he hasn't asked to see it before filing the claim. i'm also surprised that he hasn't made any real attempt to sort this out before making the claim.

if the package has got lost in transit (i obviously hope not) and i have proof it was sent, what more can i do? don't you agree that the buyer has to take responsibility when purchasing an item online?

paypal won't see it that way. trust me.

i sent some used drum equipment to someone in Australia last year. shipped it right away, with tracking and insurance, airmail, blah blah blah. never showed up. at least that's what i was told. had a claim filed against me. i provided proof of shipment/tracking/insurance (scans of receipts, customs forms, etc. shipped the day after payment was made), and i still lost the claim. why? paypal said that unless i can prove that the item was delivered to the address that it was sent, it's my fault and the buyer shouldn't lose out because of that. believe me - the buyer is always more protected than the seller. it sucks, but that's how it works in the eyes of paypal.

all that being said, i ended up having a trace put on the package by canada post. turns out that the asshole lied, as the package had arrived, but he could see that the tracking info never updated between the australian postal service and canada post. once the trace went through, it showed as being delivered just a week or two after it was shipped. so in this case, the guy was trying to screw me. i eventually got my money back (it had been taken out of my paypal account when i lost the claim).

all you have to do is be thorough and have all your shit together when you call paypal. don't let them talk you down. keep asking to talk to a claims specialist/manager. the first person you get on the telephone won't be able to do anything for you.

in this case, though, you sent the item two weeks after it was paid for. i'm pretty sure that paypal will hold that against you in their decision. there's a rule about how long you have to ship something after it has been paid for (5-10 days? i can't remember).

either way, i hope that the record arrives and the claim can be dropped.

my last bit of advice: when shipping internationally, put tracking on packages. it costs more, but it can end up saving you when situations like mine above arise. not saying that is what will happen here, but, it does happen.

[dreamover]

and i don't know 100% that he hasn't received the lp and is just trying to fiddle me out of £35 (although i'm pretty sure he isn't)

He would have escalated it by now, and not have waited as long as he did to file the claim.

By the way, out of curiousity, which record was it?

[woolage]

and i don't know 100% that he hasn't received the lp and is just trying to fiddle me out of £35 (although i'm pretty sure he isn't)

thing is, i have proof of postage. i'm just surprised he hasn't asked to see it before filing the claim. i'm also surprised that he hasn't made any real attempt to sort this out before making the claim.

if the package has got lost in transit (i obviously hope not) and i have proof it was sent, what more can i do? don't you agree that the buyer has to take responsibility when purchasing an item online?

paypal won't see it that way. trust me.

i sent some used drum equipment to someone in Australia last year. shipped it right away, with tracking and insurance, airmail, blah blah blah. never showed up. at least that's what i was told. had a claim filed against me. i provided proof of shipment/tracking/insurance (scans of receipts, customs forms, etc. shipped the day after payment was made), and i still lost the claim. why? paypal said that unless i can prove that the item was delivered to the address that it was sent, it's my fault and the buyer shouldn't lose out because of that. believe me - the buyer is always more protected than the seller. it sucks, but that's how it works in the eyes of paypal.

all that being said, i ended up having a trace put on the package by canada post. turns out that the asshole lied, as the package had arrived, but he could see that the tracking info never updated between the australian postal service and canada post. once the trace went through, it showed as being delivered just a week or two after it was shipped. so in this case, the guy was trying to screw me. i eventually got my money back (it had been taken out of my paypal account when i lost the claim).

all you have to do is be thorough and have all your shit together when you call paypal. don't let them talk you down. keep asking to talk to a claims specialist/manager. the first person you get on the telephone won't be able to do anything for you.

in this case, though, you sent the item two weeks after it was paid for. i'm pretty sure that paypal will hold that against you in their decision. there's a rule about how long you have to ship something after it has been paid for (5-10 days? i can't remember).

either way, i hope that the record arrives and the claim can be dropped.

my last bit of advice: when shipping internationally, put tracking on packages. it costs more, but it can end up saving you when situations like mine above arise. not saying that is what will happen here, but, it does happen.

Thanks for that mate. I thought PayPal would be like that about the situation.

[chiefwahoo]

I recently got burned for a good chunk of cash from a German label that said they sent my records, so I waited patiently and didn't file a claim. Records never showed, now the label wants me to send more money for them to ship the records...so either I pay up, or I'm out the original amount I paid in AUGUST. Had I filed a claim when I could have, I would have my money back and all would be well.

What label?

[hickey]

I recently got burned for a good chunk of cash from a German label that said they sent my records, so I waited patiently and didn't file a claim. Records never showed, now the label wants me to send more money for them to ship the records...so either I pay up, or I'm out the original amount I paid in AUGUST. Had I filed a claim when I could have, I would have my money back and all would be well.

What label?

No Balls.

[woolage]

and i don't know 100% that he hasn't received the lp and is just trying to fiddle me out of £35 (although i'm pretty sure he isn't)

He would have escalated it by now, and not have waited as long as he did to file the claim.

By the way, out of curiousity, which record was it?

Propagandhi - Potemkin City Limits LP (colour mis-press)

I wasn't seriously suggesting he'd ripped me off mate. I just think that PayPal seems to be biased towards the buyer regarding disputes like this.

[adammuzzy]

i've had two dudes in the past year tell me straight up that they got their record, but they let the claim run it's course, and since i wasn't smart and paid for delivery confirmation i got fucked. i even sent paypal the email the dude sent me telling me he got the record, and they still gave him his money back.

[woolage]

i've had two dudes in the past year tell me straight up that they got their record, but they let the claim run it's course, and since i wasn't smart and paid for delivery confirmation i got fucked. i even sent paypal the email the dude sent me telling me he got the record, and they still gave him his money back.

Ohhhh shit. LOL

[salaho]

I think it's really shitty to have someones money for 2 weeks before posting, if you aren't in a position to ship something promptly you shouldn't be selling it, you've got no-one but yourself to blame for the paypal dispute.

[woolage]

I think it's really shitty to have someones money for 2 weeks before posting, if you aren't in a position to ship something promptly you shouldn't be selling it, you've got no-one but yourself to blame for the paypal dispute.

Ok. I normally post very quickly. Like I say, you can check that if you want. However, this is not something I do as a full time job. I have other stuff going on in my life. This guy got this lp for a pretty good price from someone who is completely trustworthy. I had stuff go on just after Xmas that meant I was out and about a lot. I explained to the guy that I hadn't posted his record and he was cool with that. Don't get me wrong, this guy is cool.

Surely people can understand that sometimes things happen that are more important / have to take priority over shipping records. He was aware with my situation and was cool with waiting. 2 weeks is not a long time to wait for something. I've waited much, much longer.

If you think I'm a really shitty person for making this guy wait a massive 2 weeks to post his record (after letting him know) then I guess I'm an asshole.

I'm actually amazed by some of the responses I've had in this thread but this is the best one. WOW. 2 weeks! What a scamming little fucker I am.