Guest baseball Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Don't have a lot of time to comment on this stuff right now, but here's some good charts on the stimulus that might help you form your opinions. Where the money will go: http://www.propublica.org/special/stimulus-bill-treemap Infrastructure Spending vs. Unemployment Rate http://www.propublica.org/special/maps-unemployment-rates-vs-per-capita-infrastructure-spending or http://www.propublica.org/special/infrastructure-spending-unemployment-rate Summary of the bill from Dave Obey (D-WI), Committee on Appropriations: http://s3.amazonaws.com/propublica/assets/docs/StimulusBillPressSummary01-15-09-1.pdf Allocation by school district: http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/2009StimulusLeasfinal.pdf Infrastructure spending by state: http://transportation.house.gov/Media/File/Full%20Committee/Stimulus/HR%201%20(as%20passed%20by%20the%20House)%20Total%20Infrastructure%20Investment%20Funding.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxmartinxx Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 I think a lot of the problem right now is that all the doom and gloom has businesses and people running scared. We have businesses that are doing well trying to preemptively save money by cutting wages, bonuses, and jobs. We have people who have stopped spending. A part of my ultra-cynical nature wonders if this talk to "The Great Depression Part 2" isn't the latest round of fat-cat fear mongering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest baseball Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I think a lot of the problem right now is that all the doom and gloom has businesses and people running scared. We have businesses that are doing well trying to preemptively save money by cutting wages, bonuses, and jobs. We have people who have stopped spending.A part of my ultra-cynical nature wonders if this talk to "The Great Depression Part 2" isn't the latest round of fat-cat fear mongering. I understand what you're saying for sure, as fear-mongering has become a time honored tradition in the US, but the economic future is VERY VERY uncertain. While I don't work with anything financial (I do Enteprise Computer Security), I do work at an internationally respected financial firm, luckily one that was run responsibly and isn't failing. I do have the benefit of hearing a lot of very informed views on economic issues. The problems with the world economy are very real and very very serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dntheman1 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Marginal Revolution is one of my favorite blogs to read. Here is a post regarding non-fiscal policy options: http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2009/01/what-instead-2.html I am am a fan of payroll tax cuts and I believe tax cuts in general are faster and quicker take effect. They may be less effective than a perfectly targetted fiscal policy, but it's also alot easier to implement. I also think this is especially important to keep in mind: "4) Don't Panic. This is the policy that has cured most recessions. The do anything and do it now mindset feeds panic. I do think this recession will be longer than average and quite deep, it is a concern that it is worldwide. But recessions are normal and we have unemployment insurance and other assistance programs to help people through tough times. The economy will recover and its very possible to make things worse by trying to make things better." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgoodcore Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Tax cuts will not get spent, they will get saved and they will have zero affect on the economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dntheman1 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Tax cuts will not get spent, they will get saved and they will have zero affect on the economy. That may be true, but the same idea would apply to creating new jobs for infrastructure. People would just save or pay off debt instead of investing or consuming. It doesn't matter if the money comes from paying less in taxes or from a new government project. As for payroll taxes, this would simply make it cheaper for firms to hire or maintain workers. This would avoid alot of the problems of government work as it would take place in the private market. A stimulus with immediate fiscal policy paired with smart tax reductions is probably the best way to go. That seemed to be how this bill began, but then got bloated with pork and now is just a big mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgoodcore Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Not true. Tax cuts would go towards people who were already working. Infrastructure would result in new jobs. Probably less home foreclosures. Tax cuts would also result in a few dollars a check, maybe 10-15? I know personally, if I got that, it would just be pushed aside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcm1610 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I wouldn't even notice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dntheman1 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Sorry, I reworded my post after you'd responded. The cuts would need to be made in a way to create incentives. This could be eliminating the capital gains tax to encourage investment or would apply to last year's taxes, meaning that even if people who lost their jobs would get money back. The payroll tax cut is probably the best bet as this encourages employment and makes it easier for businesses to keep their employees. This would benefit all industries, not just the ones government chooses to fund. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgoodcore Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Sorry, I reworded my post after you'd responded. The cuts would need to be made in a way to create incentives. This could be eliminating the capital gains tax to encourage investment or would apply to last year's taxes, meaning that even if people who lost their jobs would get money back. The payroll tax cut is probably the best bet as this encourages employment and makes it easier for businesses to keep their employees. This would benefit all industries, not just the ones government chooses to fund. I could see that being a good part of a bigger stimulus. I still think the government needs to intelligently create jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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