Invest in Vinyl Collective/Suburban Home's Future

[vinyljunkie]

The main thing that's getting discouraging about this argument is that I'm simply stating what I've seen (or haven't seen) and everyone is trying to disprove me or come up with reasons for me not seeing them. I was just agreeing with others here. For every person here who has seen a distro (even a small one) set up at supposedly every show they've been to, there's the same number of people who haven't seen them. It has nothing to do with any of us going to the "right" or "wrong" shows or the city/state/area. It just shouldn't be so shocking to all of you that a lot of us don't necessarily see them as often as maybe you do. Maybe a few of us don't go to many shows at all. There could be a number of reasons.

ok but that still doesnt really explain why you are even arguing that at all. even down to this last post essentially restating the same thing posted in the prvious 10 posts.

or what your argument has to do with the topic

[Guest genericinsight]

The main thing that's getting discouraging about this argument is that I'm simply stating what I've seen (or haven't seen) and everyone is trying to disprove me or come up with reasons for me not seeing them. I was just agreeing with others here. For every person here who has seen a distro (even a small one) set up at supposedly every show they've been to, there's the same number of people who haven't seen them. It has nothing to do with any of us going to the "right" or "wrong" shows or the city/state/area. It just shouldn't be so shocking to all of you that a lot of us don't necessarily see them as often as maybe you do. Maybe a few of us don't go to many shows at all. There could be a number of reasons.

ok but that still doesnt really explain why you are even arguing that at all. even down to this last post essentially restating the same thing posted in the prvious 10 posts.

or what your argument has to do with the topic

I don't consider what I'm doing to be an argument. You (and others) have been saying you don't understand why we don't see distros so I'm contemplating why maybe we don't, much like you assume that there's none at any show in Brooklyn because nobody really drives cars (to which I've just rebutted that I've been to shows all over the country and haven't seen them at every show either, which is also true). There is no answer to this other than to throw out theories which is what we've all been doing...

[vinyljunkie]

ok, i think i see what you are saying. but you are arguing as to why there are NO distros (dont wanna carry stuff, not selling enough etc), and im saying its well established that there are TONS of independent distros.

why you, or others may not see them can be theorized/argued all night. but just cause they arent at the shows you go to, doesnt mean they dont exist around.

thats not to say there cant be more, and how awesome would it be if EVERY town had an independent place, and they can carry VC stuff too!

unfortunately that needs to be handled by the populace. kids need to take the lead and say, hey im gonna start a distro.

having random people hock goods in hopes of getting a rare test press or tshirt is not going to revolutionize independent music, its just gonna lead to a clusterfuck.

[buddhistzombie]

virgil, keep up the good work. It will pay off. and has always payed off. The naysayer's are frustrated enough to call you out and denounce your ideas, but they have enough gull to keep coming back to the board to post all day. sounds like they kind of like the place, sounds like they enjoy the community you have built, sounds like they enjoy vc and do not want it to go away . . . and neither do I . . . keep up the good work.

[vinyljunkie]

virgil, keep up the good work. It will pay off. and has always payed off.

if it has and will always pay off there would be no need for a post like this, nor would accounts be frozen, etc.

[buddhistzombie]

virgil, keep up the good work. It will pay off. and has always payed off.

if it has and will always pay off there would be no need for a post like this, nor would accounts be frozen, etc.

and by "paying off" i mean, it will suffice the need. People need for music, virgil will try to get you as much music he can at the cheapest price he can. not paying off with money because really, our culture tells us it is important to have this and make this but it is the other things in life that are truly the "pay off."

I'm not here to talk numbers, I just want to acknowledge that Virgil works hard to make people happy.

[vinyljunkie]

well i hope no one is trying to claim that he doesnt work hard, and/or love music.

you dont get to the size virgil is without work/effort/a lot of time

obviously the dude has worked a TON to get where he is. his business plans may leave much to be desired, but he definitely works hard at them.

[miloskiba]

I know I am a one track record, but...

is The Takers/Austin Lucas split one of the records held up at Pirate?

Would be good to hear something definite

[Guest Admin]

I know I am a one track record, but...

is The Takers/Austin Lucas split one of the records held up at Pirate?

Would be good to hear something definite

this record was supposed to be pressed at record pressing, not pirates. pirates isn't the only pressing plant, but record pressing messed things up up the record and it is now moved over to United. We should have tests any day now and it should finally be out sooner than later. We had a lot of issues with this record, none of which was being help up by a pressing plant.

[Guest Admin]

vinyljunkie, I sent you an email. would love to talk more about distros at shows.

my attempt to get people starting diy distros at shows isn't a knock at the folks that already do it. I realize that there are tons of distros out there, but very few if any buy from us. Sure you can say that I put out the "wrong" records, but I think that logic is flawed. One thing that I have found out is that the people on this board and in the vinyl collective community, they love supporting small bands and labels. I have found out about countless bands and labels by my involvement in VC. If we can plant the seed with some of these people, it could put together another network of distribution that will not only help our releases but those of the smaller labels we buy from. I have seen a lot of criticism of this idea but no one knows what we have planned. I agree with many of vinyljunkie's points on this topic and definitely don't plan to just give free records to people, I agree that would be a losing cause but I do plan to give people once they have done it for a short time, extended terms so there is less risk involved for any one individual.

I also think that saying we are going to the wrong shows isn't the correct thinking. Of course I don't expect to see distros set up at livenation venues, but there are tons of venues/shows where there aren't people setting up. Since people like Vinyljunkie are so passionate about this, hopefully you can help me mold this into something that makes sense for all involved.

[andygi]

vinyljunkie, I sent you an email. would love to talk more about distros at shows.

my attempt to get people starting diy distros at shows isn't a knock at the folks that already do it. I realize that there are tons of distros out there, but very few if any buy from us. Sure you can say that I put out the "wrong" records, but I think that logic is flawed. One thing that I have found out is that the people on this board and in the vinyl collective community, they love supporting small bands and labels. I have found out about countless bands and labels by my involvement in VC. If we can plant the seed with some of these people, it could put together another network of distribution that will not only help our releases but those of the smaller labels we buy from. I have seen a lot of criticism of this idea but no one knows what we have planned. I agree with many of vinyljunkie's points on this topic and definitely don't plan to just give free records to people, I agree that would be a losing cause but I do plan to give people once they have done it for a short time, extended terms so there is less risk involved for any one individual.

I also think that saying we are going to the wrong shows isn't the correct thinking. Of course I don't expect to see distros set up at livenation venues, but there are tons of venues/shows where there aren't people setting up. Since people like Vinyljunkie are so passionate about this, hopefully you can help me mold this into something that makes sense for all involved.

Wow, turns out I have an account here.

I run a sporadic distro in the UK and I get a lot of my stuff wholesale from No Idea, i've sold bits of VC stuff in the UK (Look mexico/fake problems split, ninja gun/whiskey&co, in the red volume 2) but the problem i've found specifically with VC released stuff is that because of the "pre-order culture" of this label, a lot of people who buy stuff from me buy VC stuff direct (or at least, I assume they do) because they're either unsure whether a record will sell out, or they want a specific variant that I may not be able to get through my wholesalers, or because its VC only.

I don't know if that applies to people in the states but i'd say there is an inherit problem with generating pre-order hype / variant hype.

I would be interested in buying from you wholesale but given the time it takes to get records here, its not really worth the "risk" of buying 5 copies if 4 of the people who would buy it, ordered it directly from you.

Hope that makes sense.

Maybe if you want to push more distros once you get out of this debt, make it better for them, ship stuff to distros 2 weeks before everyone else gets there, or make disto-only variants, rather than VC only variants.

[Guest Admin]

vinyljunkie, I sent you an email. would love to talk more about distros at shows.

my attempt to get people starting diy distros at shows isn't a knock at the folks that already do it. I realize that there are tons of distros out there, but very few if any buy from us. Sure you can say that I put out the "wrong" records, but I think that logic is flawed. One thing that I have found out is that the people on this board and in the vinyl collective community, they love supporting small bands and labels. I have found out about countless bands and labels by my involvement in VC. If we can plant the seed with some of these people, it could put together another network of distribution that will not only help our releases but those of the smaller labels we buy from. I have seen a lot of criticism of this idea but no one knows what we have planned. I agree with many of vinyljunkie's points on this topic and definitely don't plan to just give free records to people, I agree that would be a losing cause but I do plan to give people once they have done it for a short time, extended terms so there is less risk involved for any one individual.

I also think that saying we are going to the wrong shows isn't the correct thinking. Of course I don't expect to see distros set up at livenation venues, but there are tons of venues/shows where there aren't people setting up. Since people like Vinyljunkie are so passionate about this, hopefully you can help me mold this into something that makes sense for all involved.

Wow, turns out I have an account here.

I run a sporadic distro in the UK and I get a lot of my stuff wholesale from No Idea, i've sold bits of VC stuff in the UK (Look mexico/fake problems split, ninja gun/whiskey&co, in the red volume 2) but the problem i've found specifically with VC released stuff is that because of the "pre-order culture" of this label, a lot of people who buy stuff from me buy VC stuff direct (or at least, I assume they do) because they're either unsure whether a record will sell out, or they want a specific variant that I may not be able to get through my wholesalers, or because its VC only.

I don't know if that applies to people in the states but i'd say there is an inherit problem with generating pre-order hype / variant hype.

I would be interested in buying from you wholesale but given the time it takes to get records here, its not really worth the "risk" of buying 5 copies if 4 of the people who would buy it, ordered it directly from you.

Hope that makes sense.

Maybe if you want to push more distros once you get out of this debt, make it better for them, ship stuff to distros 2 weeks before everyone else gets there, or make disto-only variants, rather than VC only variants.

i've heard some of these points before, but isn't it a lot cheaper for you to sell records through your distro than when someone buys from us and adds international shipping?

right now, we have very little distro in the UK and all of our acts have been touring there. would love to work directly with you

[thesack18]

this conversation is funny because i have never seen a distro at a show in my life over here in Australia. Would be awesome to pick up some vinyl at shows. We are lucky if the actual band playing ever has vinyl

you should start one dude! there are a handful of australian labels to get the records from without having to get them from overseas. or get some of the sweet malaysian area stuff thats been coming out in recent years. if there are no distros in australia then im sure the kids are starving for one and you could be just the person to do it!

ive thought long and hard about doin a distro at shows here. but i dunno, i lack any kind of confidence to try out somethin like this. im not a people person so i dont really want to deal with them. i do know theres so much good music i think deserves to be heard. id like to do a small online distro but between resist records and poison city, im not sure theres much stuff i could sell that they already dont

[andygi]

we're talking right now over email ([email protected]) so we can discuss it there dude.

Cheers

[thomasmagnum]

EDIT: as a point of POSITIVE constructive criticism to virgil. why not give your entire suburban home catalog to touring bands on your roster? then when they sell their release they can also set up a box with all the other releases. they can sell them for 10, and you take 8, the band gets 2 (or however your pricing goes). band has incentive cause it can make them pizza money for the stop. it spreads the word about your label/releases. plus you might make a few extra bucks on records that may otherwise be sitting in your warehouse waiting for a buyer. plus you support the independent vinyl or whatever by providing a distro that gets set up at shows. plus, if you signed them, i imagine you trust them with your records more than random internet people.

I think this is a really good idea and much more realistic than having just random people sell the records.

I think that's a really good idea too. Maybe it would be better if they bought the stuff at a discounted rate and then they could resell it back to Suburban Home once they got back from tour so they would not be out any money. I would just not want anyone to end up in trouble if something happened to all the money they collected from selling stuff if money was to be lost or stolen. But it would be a good way for everyone to make more money and offer more stuff at a merch table.

[vittywatt]

jesus what a thread and it's only a day old.

[brento]

Wow, turns out I have an account here.

I run a sporadic distro in the UK and I get a lot of my stuff wholesale from No Idea, i've sold bits of VC stuff in the UK (Look mexico/fake problems split, ninja gun/whiskey&co, in the red volume 2) but the problem i've found specifically with VC released stuff is that because of the "pre-order culture" of this label, a lot of people who buy stuff from me buy VC stuff direct (or at least, I assume they do) because they're either unsure whether a record will sell out, or they want a specific variant that I may not be able to get through my wholesalers, or because its VC only.

I don't know if that applies to people in the states but i'd say there is an inherit problem with generating pre-order hype / variant hype.

I would be interested in buying from you wholesale but given the time it takes to get records here, its not really worth the "risk" of buying 5 copies if 4 of the people who would buy it, ordered it directly from you.

Hope that makes sense.

Maybe if you want to push more distros once you get out of this debt, make it better for them, ship stuff to distros 2 weeks before everyone else gets there, or make disto-only variants, rather than VC only variants.

i've heard some of these points before, but isn't it a lot cheaper for you to sell records through your distro than when someone buys from us and adds international shipping?

right now, we have very little distro in the UK and all of our acts have been touring there. would love to work directly with you

I personally think the biggest issue of them all is this Pre-Order hype and also the use of preorder money to press records.

[vinyljunkie]

i have trouble moving VC records in vinyl junkie for the same reasons andygi mentioned. Also because im stubborn and old school and prefer people buy the record for the music, not the rarity/color, so all my records are sold as the record. not split up into red splatter, yellow splatter, tour edition, etc.

because of that most any VC record i get, inevitably gets multiple emails to the effect of "what color is this on. ill buy it if its the purple and yellow with black splatter version". and yet, very few people actually just add it to the cart as is and purchase it.

more than likely it seems theyve picked it up straight from the label (which is cool, dont get me wrong), and are now only looking for that one elusive variant to complete their collection.

virgil - i never recieved any email. did you send it to info at vinyljunkiedistro dot com ?

i think what might help to provide this network for your label, and distributed titles would be possibly making a wholesale catalog? or wholesale email list. you could send them out to stores/distros/kids who wanna sell stuff at shows/etc, like a no idea or ebullition or stickfigure wholesale catalog. That way you help spread the word that you are attempting to distribute better/wider/etc.

i personally had contacted someone at vc a little over a year ago about helping distribute stuff, and i got a "well get you a wholesale list over", and nothing. i checked in once more a few weeks later and got no reply. so wholesaling didnt work out, and at this point im big/established enough where i generally only take on consignment stuff, and VC had told me that you didnt work on consignment with places, so that was right out too.

i know i would like to get some of the titles you distribute in my store. its happened on more than one occassion where i have contacted a label about their releases and they tell me they are already distributed by VC but thanks anyway (usually newer/smaller labels that apparently think that vc is the only needed channel).

also, i dont think that setting up this network of independent salesmen is so horrible in theory, id just hate to see you lose even more when/if people turn out to be lazy/incompetent/flakes/etc. which is bound to happen in at least a handful of people. its hard enough to find an established place to pay up and keep up, let alone a smattering of "fans". and there isnt much more deflating things than working really hard and trusting in someone, and expending time/money, only to have them not follow through. you end up out so much more than just dollars.

[traffic]

let's say that the wholesale costs of the records in the prize pack (for the rafffle) average out to about $6 a piece (less than half of the records' suggested "worth"). with 3,000 records, that adds up to $18,000.

raffle tickets are being sold for $3.

to make a $1,000 profit on an $18,000 prize, they need to sell 6,333 tickets.

if, on the other hand, they offered a $1,000 prize (instead of an $18,000 prize) they could make a $1,000 profit with only 667 ticket sales.

does anyone think they'll really sell that many more tickets by offering such a huge prize? sure it will attract more people, but ten times as many people?

and let's not forget the ridiculous shipping costs incurred by shipping 3,000 records.

not everything needs to be THE BIGGEST DEAL ever. sometimes smaller is better.

[thomasmagnum]

let's say that the wholesale costs of the records in the prize pack (for the rafffle) average out to about $6 a piece (less than half of the records' suggested "worth"). with 3,000 records, that adds up to $18,000.

raffle tickets are being sold for $3.

to make a $1,000 profit on an $18,000 prize, they need to sell 6,333 tickets.

if, on the other hand, they offered a $1,000 prize (instead of an $18,000 prize) they could make a $1,000 profit with only 667 ticket sales.

does anyone think they'll really sell that many more tickets by offering such a huge prize? sure it will attract more people, but ten times as many people?

and let's not forget the ridiculous shipping costs incurred by shipping 3,000 records.

not everything needs to be THE BIGGEST DEAL ever. sometimes smaller is better.

yeah i would be surprised if they didn't end up getting totally screwed on it...maybe it would be a better idea to just let the winner pick 100 records of their choice with no doubles or something like that

[suburbanargyle]

If I won 3,000 records in one swoop, I think my wife would literally kill me. This would make VC an accomplice, correct? This is one raffle I will definitely not be entering, because I'd be scared to death of winning it.

[traffic]

let's say that the wholesale costs of the records in the prize pack (for the rafffle) average out to about $6 a piece (less than half of the records' suggested "worth"). with 3,000 records, that adds up to $18,000.

raffle tickets are being sold for $3.

to make a $1,000 profit on an $18,000 prize, they need to sell 6,333 tickets.

if, on the other hand, they offered a $1,000 prize (instead of an $18,000 prize) they could make a $1,000 profit with only 667 ticket sales.

does anyone think they'll really sell that many more tickets by offering such a huge prize? sure it will attract more people, but ten times as many people?

and let's not forget the ridiculous shipping costs incurred by shipping 3,000 records.

not everything needs to be THE BIGGEST DEAL ever. sometimes smaller is better.

yeah i would be surprised if they didn't end up getting totally screwed on it...maybe it would be a better idea to just let the winner pick 100 records of their choice with no doubles or something like that

good call.

[thomasmagnum]

yeah i would be surprised if they didn't end up getting totally screwed on it...maybe it would be a better idea to just let the winner pick 100 records of their choice with no doubles or something like that

good call.

yeah i mean even if the prize was to pick 500 records or even 1,000 it might be better..i don't even know that i would want 3,000 records either...just thinking about it from virgil's side why not give the winner 1,000 records of their choosing and then sell the rest at DRAMATICALLY reduced prices and make a little money of them?

[mynameisdan]

question about the vccc. if you are planning to give credit to any member who doesn't hit 750 in the year, what's to stop someone from becoming a member, spending ten bucks and waiting for 650+ to come in credit? just saying, as it is, the way you have it posted it sounds like that's an option. or i'm reading it wrong.

[googlemyass]

nah