We need more PRE-ORDERS!

[jailhouse]

Dave, those Pink Lincolns records that are going to Crux Club members for free, when are those being sent out? Are you gonna send me the Teenager test with that? cause I never got it yet.

You mean "The Spears" we don't have any Lincolns albums out or coming out really soon.

Those have either gone out, or are going out now.

PM your address, just in case, but they were likely sent out last week.

The Teenager test, I really wanted to hook you up, for being a die hard crux fan, After looking through all of our test pressings, we have only 1 Teenager reject test, and a reject laquer, the others are from other crux test presses.

Yeah though, PM your address just in case and I will make sure they went out.

[mclz]

Dave, those Pink Lincolns records that are going to Crux Club members for free, when are those being sent out? Are you gonna send me the Teenager test with that? cause I never got it yet.

You mean "The Spears" we don't have any Lincolns albums out or coming out really soon.

Those have either gone out, or are going out now.

PM your address, just in case, but they were likely sent out last week.

The Teenager test, I really wanted to hook you up, for being a die hard crux fan, After looking through all of our test pressings, we have only 1 Teenager reject test, and a reject laquer, the others are from other crux test presses.

Yeah though, PM your address just in case and I will make sure they went out.

Oh yeah, I meant Spears record. Yeah, all the other crux tests i have.

PMed you my address

[jailhouse]

You mean "The Spears" we don't have any Lincolns albums out or coming out really soon.

Those have either gone out, or are going out now.

PM your address, just in case, but they were likely sent out last week.

The Teenager test, I really wanted to hook you up, for being a die hard crux fan, After looking through all of our test pressings, we have only 1 Teenager reject test, and a reject laquer, the others are from other crux test presses.

Yeah though, PM your address just in case and I will make sure they went out.

Oh yeah, I meant Spears record. Yeah, all the other crux tests i have.

PMed you my address

Yeah just looked you up,

Your records should have gone out on Friday,

(it was a heavy package )

[mclz]

Dave, you rule, end of story.

[jailhouse]

Dave, you rule, end of story.

You rule, for having one of the most complete crux collections I have ever seen.

I envy that collection!

[mclz]

I think I really lucked out the most on the victim of hype test. i think i paid 99 cents for it.

[bruiser873]

Sometimes you wait so long for a pre order, you forget you ordered it and buy it elsewhere.

[magicbulletrecords]

I think the reason Flood loves long preorders is because he himself is guilty of a few I don't think it has anything to do with maturity, though.

Fat Wreck's preorders are exactly how one should go if they're gonna be done. Throw up the preorder, and a week later it is mailed out. What I don't like is when a preorder is done to fund the pressing itself, and then sales are slower than expected so there isn't enough money to press immediately, or something happens at the plant so everybody is kept waiting.

I don't think it's an issue of "instant gratification" either, or I wouldn't be ordering tangible items to be delivered through the mail.

This is probably the best post in the thread.

To me, being "mature" would be more along the lines of labels being fiscally responsible enough to not have to do pre-orders in hopes of helping pay for their pressing costs. If a label is openly stating that they need pre-order support to press a record, I head for the hills.

On the consumer end, being "mature" would be to recognize when you're about to get in a situation where you could very well be throwing money down a rat hole. As an adult, I like spending money on tangible goods that actually exist in present tense. In the rare occasion where I send money before the physical product exists, it's usually from a reputable place that can turn it in a couple weeks (and not a few months to over a year).

And on my label's end, no pre-orders ever. It's just a foolish proposition that you can never really win at no matter how "smoothly" it goes. I tried it for a little bit some years back and the amount of extra work it created (mainly having to field email/messageboard inquiries on progress from strangers) was asinine.

Also, I think a lot of it goes back to the adage of if you don't have enough disposable income or business income to press a record, then maybe your life needs and priorities should be examined and reassessed.

As for the idea of "I like to pre-order because it means I'll get a copy of the record and don't have to worry about it selling out," I get that concept. At the same time, I personally believe that it's kind of a record label's responsibility to produce enough copies to meet the vast majority of the demand (and keep it in print if it's a consistent seller).

Anyway, just my thoughts on all this... carry on.

[joshnotgood]

I think the reason Flood loves long preorders is because he himself is guilty of a few I don't think it has anything to do with maturity, though.

Fat Wreck's preorders are exactly how one should go if they're gonna be done. Throw up the preorder, and a week later it is mailed out. What I don't like is when a preorder is done to fund the pressing itself, and then sales are slower than expected so there isn't enough money to press immediately, or something happens at the plant so everybody is kept waiting.

I don't think it's an issue of "instant gratification" either, or I wouldn't be ordering tangible items to be delivered through the mail.

This is probably the best post in the thread.

To me, being "mature" would be more along the lines of labels being fiscally responsible enough to not have to do pre-orders in hopes of helping pay for their pressing costs. If a label is openly stating that they need pre-order support to press a record, I head for the hills.

On the consumer end, being "mature" would be to recognize when you're about to get in a situation where you could very well be throwing money down a rat hole. As an adult, I like spending money on tangible goods that actually exist in present tense. In the rare occasion where I send money before the physical product exists, it's usually from a reputable place that can turn it in a couple weeks (and not a few months to over a year).

And on my label's end, no pre-orders ever. It's just a foolish proposition that you can never really win at no matter how "smoothly" it goes. I tried it for a little bit some years back and the amount of extra work it created (mainly having to field email/messageboard inquiries on progress from strangers) was asinine.

Also, I think a lot of it goes back to the adage of if you don't have enough disposable income or business income to press a record, then maybe your life needs and priorities should be examined and reassessed.

As for the idea of "I like to pre-order because it means I'll get a copy of the record and don't have to worry about it selling out," I get that concept. At the same time, I personally believe that it's kind of a record label's responsibility to produce enough copies to meet the vast majority of the demand (and keep it in print if it's a consistent seller).

Anyway, just my thoughts on all this... carry on.

I can't agree with your take on the consumer's end. It screams blaming the victim to me. You use yourself as an example of what you should do if you preorder records. Well, I guess you're lucky to be you then, because I didn't know shit about VC's problems when I preordered this long preorder. Again, I struggle to see the connection to being "mature" or even an "adult."

[magicbulletrecords]

Can't speak for Adam, but my post had nothing to do with VC pre-orders. It's just pre-orders in general. All I was saying is that as a consumer, you might want to at least check on the track record of a label before throwing money at them for products that don't exist yet. Being responsible with your spending is absolutely recognized as a "mature" and "adult" trait. Also, very rarely do I see pre-order items that I don't see in store bins later, so you can almost certainly wait it out. Unless you're diehard on limited mailorder-only splatter vinyl or whatever, of course.

[adamlikesmusic]

As for the idea of "I like to pre-order because it means I'll get a copy of the record and don't have to worry about it selling out," I get that concept.

There's one thing I never understood about that argument; If you can get in on a preorder, why can't you get in on something when it is actually up for sale?

[magicbulletrecords]

I don't know... a lot of it is obviously driven by inflated hysteria and self-hype and all that. People honestly think they're going to "miss out" if they don't pre-order, which is kind of ridiculous. You might "miss out" on some mailorder edition with some different color, but it's unlikely you're not going to ever see the record again in a store or at a show or in the label's webstore.

[bruiser873]

By the time I get my pre order from VC, Tim Barry will already have his next album out.

[xadamhudsonx]

I don't know... a lot of it is obviously driven by inflated hysteria and self-hype and all that. People honestly think they're going to "miss out" if they don't pre-order, which is kind of ridiculous. You might "miss out" on some mailorder edition with some different color, but it's unlikely you're not going to ever see the record again in a store or at a show or in the label's webstore.

This makes complete sense, which is why I don't understand why people are upset over the whole pre-order situation. If you don't agree with the idea/concept/process of VCs pre-orders, then don't. You'll still probably get the album when it comes out eventually, although maybe not the special limited color/mailorder edition etc.

The people that want those items are generally not the ones complaining about a lengthy pre-order. It's not like VC is producing albums in such limited quantities that if you don't pre-order you'll never see the album except for ebay or something.

[joshnotgood]

Can't speak for Adam, but my post had nothing to do with VC pre-orders. It's just pre-orders in general. All I was saying is that as a consumer, you might want to at least check on the track record of a label before throwing money at them for products that don't exist yet. Being responsible with your spending is absolutely recognized as a "mature" and "adult" trait. Also, very rarely do I see pre-order items that I don't see in store bins later, so you can almost certainly wait it out. Unless you're diehard on limited mailorder-only splatter vinyl or whatever, of course.

As a consumer I might want to at least check on the track record of a label before preordering a record? Really? I guess I didn't know I should research a distro's preorder history before preordering. Thank you for that. And then that would be being responsible, and mature, and adult.

Can I ask you this? Have you ever considered some people don't just preorder for limited colors or variants, but that many people do because, when done right, it can be convenient and the same as ordering it upon its release? Obviously many preorders can be waited out. Does that mean I shouldn't choose to preorder records? What if I like preordering? What if I haven't had any problems anywhere else? You tell me, what's wrong with preordering a record you're going to buy anyway? Nothing. And when a distro fucks up and sells preorders before records exist, it's my fault. Because I'm somehow supposed to know their shitty practices, because it would've been responsible of me to find this out before hand. Give me a break, you must be kidding.

[mcm1610]

By buying a product that doesn't exist yet, you are willingly taking the risk that there's going to be speed bumps. Different people have different levels of risk aversion. If you want to have some assurance you'll see the record come to fruition, do a background check. If you want to risk never seeing your record, place it blind and feel free to bitch at the company if it never shows up.

He's not telling you you're not allowed to, he's just making sure you know the risk you're taking. Maybe wording it as mature or adult isn't quite right, but I'd say it's responsible.

Edit:

It's like credit card companies or banks. They don't blindly throw money at people and just assume they're going to get it back. Yes, they SHOULD be able to trust everyone, but they do a bit of a background check and pick only the trustworthy ones.

[hickey]

As a consumer I might want to at least check on the track record of a label before preordering a record? Really? I guess I didn't know I should research a distro's preorder history before preordering. Thank you for that. And then that would be being responsible, and mature, and adult.

Can I ask you this? Have you ever considered some people don't just preorder for limited colors or variants, but that many people do because, when done right, it can be convenient and the same as ordering it upon its release? Obviously many preorders can be waited out. Does that mean I shouldn't choose to preorder records? What if I like preordering? What if I haven't had any problems anywhere else? You tell me, what's wrong with preordering a record you're going to buy anyway? Nothing. And when a distro fucks up and sells preorders before records exist, it's my fault. Because I'm somehow supposed to know their shitty practices, because it would've been responsible of me to find this out before hand. Give me a break, you must be kidding.

Wait, weren't you among the one complaining about pre-orders and now you're defending them? I'm lost here.

Ask yourself this: If you pre-ordered once from a distro and it got all screwed up would you pre-order from that distro again? Probably not, right? There you go, you've done your research.

Pre-order if you want. Don't if you don't want. If you do pre-order something before the physical product exists you lose all right to bitch when it gets hung up at the plant or any of the myriad issues that can arise.

I don't think anyone is specifically calling you out, just sharing their thoughts on pre-orders.

[bruiser873]

I shoulda learned my lesson when the Brian Fallon/ Chuck Ragan split took like 3 months to come, and I even saw it at HT before I got it.

[dudebrodude]

I shoulda learned my lesson when the Brian Fallon/ Chuck Ragan split took like 3 months to come, and I even saw it at HT before I got it.

and it sucked shit! way to go!

fuck pre-orders!