Whatcha think?

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

if you have time, watch the first 36 minutes of this movie. it will change what you think about religion.

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

agreed. the rest is just blah blah blah, but the part about jesus melted my brain

[lokithelion]

Top serious. Everyone gets props for not being reactionary in this. Want to take bets on when some flame bait shows up?

[cadetapplesauce]

if you have time, watch the first 36 minutes of this movie. it will change what you think about religion.

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

agreed. the rest is just blah blah blah, but the part about jesus melted my brain

yeah, the rest is about how 9/11 was an inside job, and something else about the economy.. i fell asleep, then watched another 2 hour movie that i was able to stay awake for.

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

I posted a blog about my stance a year and 2 days ago, i'll just cut/paste it

My religious views

some message board posted a thread asking do you believe in god? A lot of replies were yeah, i believe in god, but not organized religion, etc, etc, etc. I feel I just need to make a blog, number two in my series that was supposed to be weekly but has turned into bi-monthly entries of things that make me think. So here ya go.

ME: i really just dont care about god, gods, or religions period. i do what I do and whatever happens happens. when i die my body will rot and decompose in my casket and that will be the end of me.

HIM: what if you're wrong? Doesn't that worry you at all?

ME: no, not really because there is no way of knowing that until that point, and then if I am wrong, who is right? i'd rather not worry/care about any of that and just focus on living my life the best I can and if/when judgement day comes, if some lord/god/savior tries to judge my life then I guess it'll be all on perspective on how I led it. Leading your life good just so you go to heaven, or believing a religion or faith just so you go to heaven is so selfish. I'd rather just not give a shit and I dont give a shit and plan to never give a shit and keep doing what i do best.

HIM: I guess whatever works for you. I like the fact that you are very passionate about not giving a shit though.

ME: You shouldn't need a reward (getting into heaven, whatever other religions get for being good) to be a good person. you should be a good person because its the right and moral thing to do.

HIM: Well, I guess that's why some people do it, but thats not why I live my life the good way

ME: keep on keepin' on dude, but you're in the vast vast minority of the religious population. Fear and some form of Rewards are the two main factors people believe in any form of religion.

I can totally agree with you on most of that. And I'm sure our different personal experiences have molded our world views. I believe in spirits because I've had experiences that make me believe that ghosts and spirits exist. I was able to describe everything my grandfather was wearing when he died because of a dream I had in which we spoke the evening he passed. That was a little weird.

I've also seen what I can only describe as possession. Not just mental illness, but honest to gosh possession. Someone speaking in tongues they didn't know, in voices they couldn't create. Most here would think I'm crazy. Its fine. They didn't see the shit I saw. Do I believe in a higher power out of fear? Nope. I just believe in a higher power because I believe in the spiritual world.

how do you know they were speaking in tounge and not just making random noises and making you think they were talking in some special language?

[lokithelion]

9/11 was an inside job. If by inside job you mean easily preventable blunder that the Bush administration ignored until it was too late.

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

agreed. the rest is just blah blah blah, but the part about jesus melted my brain

yeah, the rest is about how 9/11 was an inside job, and something else about the economy.. i fell asleep, then watched another 2 hour movie that i was able to stay awake for.

the money part was interesting, but it was after the whackjob 9/11 part, which just made me lose a couple brain cells.

[sgoodcore]

9/11 was an inside job. If by inside job you mean easily preventable blunder that the Bush administration ignored until it was too late.

I'm a Democrat and abhor Bush Jr but I think Clinton shares some responsibility for it. I'm talking like 75-25 though. Totally off topic though so...uh...Jews rules!

[lokithelion]

I can totally agree with you on most of that. And I'm sure our different personal experiences have molded our world views. I believe in spirits because I've had experiences that make me believe that ghosts and spirits exist. I was able to describe everything my grandfather was wearing when he died because of a dream I had in which we spoke the evening he passed. That was a little weird.

I've also seen what I can only describe as possession. Not just mental illness, but honest to gosh possession. Someone speaking in tongues they didn't know, in voices they couldn't create. Most here would think I'm crazy. Its fine. They didn't see the shit I saw. Do I believe in a higher power out of fear? Nope. I just believe in a higher power because I believe in the spiritual world.

how do you know they were speaking in tounge and not just making random noises and making you think they were talking in some special language?

Props to my dad on being pretty fluent in both latin and hebrew.

[thomas]

I haven't read the thread yet, but first off let me say that I am insulted that you did not include my religion, Torti, you are an insensitive clod!

The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

I am a Pastafarian 4 lyfe!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_spaghetti_monster

You mean Pastafarians .

I was raised Catholic, and went to Catholics schools all my life. I myself am Agnostic. I think all the years of the attempted brainwashing by the modern catholic church made me sour towards any and all religions themselves.

[kirbypuckett]

Ok, now the serious side...

I don't believe in Religion, I believe in Science. I try to avoid labels at all costs, so I don't promote myself as an Atheist, however, most would probably say I am.

I was raised Catholic and in my opinion being brought up under the Catholicism umbrella (ella, ella) is the best way to become an Atheist. The moment that sparked my understanding of religion was when I was in 8th grade. The school threatened to kick me out of school because my family wasn't donating money to the church. Keep in mind that tuition was already $1,500 (which is insane for grade school)! My mom and dad didn't go to church, instead my brother and I went with my grandparents, however their donation did not count. That started the snowball effect and I quickly started to realize that all religion is pure nonsense.

I stated earlier that I believe in Science. The Christian faith leads us to believe that world has not been around very long. However, there is scientific proof that our world is over a billion years old. Some religious buffs even try lead us to believe that dinosaurs were a myth even, c'mon, get real. Are we going to discredit the entire universe beyond our tiny planet as well?

The whole idea of God, Jesus, and all of these miracles is seriously hysterical in my eyes. I can't believe that billions of people have been convinced throughout the years to believe mildly interesting fictional story as the truth. Do you honestly believe a man can walk on water? Duplicate fish and bread? Flood the entire world?

Many people use religion as a crutch, they see it as something to live for and as a guide to be a good person. I don't understand why you can't be a good person naturally and not because some mysterious fellow is up in the clouds.

There's so many things to say on the topic of religion, I'll chime in more as this thread grows.

[riddle350]

I do have a question for those who are athiests. When did you finally decide that you didn't believe. For my I wasn't raise in a religious household. My mother believed in god/jesus and was technicaly a christian but never forced it on me at all. My dad also believes but he's never been the church type. For me I think I always knew. I use "knew" in the way that Benchwarmer described above. Even when I was a little kid I never felt connected to a higher being of any sort. When I was in middle school into my freshman year of high school I made friends with a kid who's father was a pastor and I started going to church and reading the bible. After a while I came to the conclusion that the only reason I was going was because I wanted to be good friends with this guy(yeah I was one of those losers with no friends). Looking back it's really clear to me although at the time I didn't know it. I can deffinetly appreciate some of the teachings and ideas(loki outlined them above) but to me I feel like those things should just be a given. I remember one time when I was young I asked my parents how the human race started and they bought me a childs bible to read. I remember reading it and being like yeah those are neat stories but I want a real answer.

[sgoodcore]

Anybody else think it a little odd the church can't just say science was created by God to enable people to understand the world in which they live?

[lokithelion]

9/11 was an inside job. If by inside job you mean easily preventable blunder that the Bush administration ignored until it was too late.

I'm a Democrat and abhor Bush Jr but I think Clinton shares some responsibility for it. I'm talking like 75-25 though. Totally off topic though so...uh...Jews rules!

Clinton at least tried to do something about Terrorism. Everything he did was voted down by the Republican congress and laughed at as him trying to cover up what his penis was doing. When they left office they told the Bush admin that they would spend their whole time in office dealing with Terrorism. The Bush admin laughed it off and didn't deal with terrorism until the towers were hit. I hate Clinton. But the dude has no responsibility for 9/11, unless you count the bullshit myth that he called off a hit on Bin Ladin. We were offered Bin Ladin by a rogue nation, and we don't deal with rogue nations.

[Guest scriptedrain]

spelling "life" lYfe NOT for life

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

how do you know they were speaking in tounge and not just making random noises and making you think they were talking in some special language?

Props to my dad on being pretty fluent in both latin and hebrew.

huh, interesting. was this person someone who would have been around people who spoke either languages frequently?

[sgoodcore]

I'm a Democrat and abhor Bush Jr but I think Clinton shares some responsibility for it. I'm talking like 75-25 though. Totally off topic though so...uh...Jews rules!

Clinton at least tried to do something about Terrorism. Everything he did was voted down by the Republican congress and laughed at as him trying to cover up what his penis was doing. When they left office they told the Bush admin that they would spend their whole time in office dealing with Terrorism. The Bush admin laughed it off and didn't deal with terrorism until the towers were hit. I hate Clinton. But the dude has no responsibility for 9/11, unless you count the bullshit myth that he called off a hit on Bin Ladin. We were offered Bin Ladin by a rogue nation, and we don't deal with rogue nations.

Point taken, I think I had thought the Bin Laden thing was true.

[lokithelion]

Ok, now the serious side...

I don't believe in Religion, I believe in Science. I try to avoid labels at all costs, so I don't promote myself as an Atheist, however, most would probably say I am.

I was raised Catholic and in my opinion being brought up under the Catholicism umbrella (ella, ella) is the best way to become an Atheist. The moment that sparked my understanding of religion was when I was in 8th grade. The school threatened to kick me out of school because my family wasn't donating money to the church. Keep in mind that tuition was already $1,500 (which is insane for grade school)! My mom and dad didn't go to church, instead my brother and I went with my grandparents, however their donation did not count. That started the snowball effect and I quickly started to realize that all religion is pure nonsense.

I stated earlier that I believe in Science. The Christian faith leads us to believe that world has not been around very long. However, there is scientific proof that our world is over a billion years old. Some religious buffs even try lead us to believe that dinosaurs were a myth even, c'mon, get real. Are we going to discredit the entire universe beyond our tiny planet as well?

The whole idea of God, Jesus, and all of these miracles is seriously hysterical in my eyes. I can't believe that billions of people have been convinced throughout the years to believe mildly interesting fictional story as the truth. Do you honestly believe a man can walk on water? Duplicate fish and bread? Flood the entire world?

Many people use religion as a crutch, they see it as something to live for and as a guide to be a good person. I don't understand why you can't be a good person naturally and not because some mysterious fellow is up in the clouds.

There's so many things to say on the topic of religion, I'll chime in more as this thread grows.

You seem angry at the church, which is understandable. But what does the catholic church (a church I have little love for) trying to milk your family out of money have to do with whether or not God exists? I've said I don't believe that Christ was the son of God, but I believe in God. The great flood however I consider part of world history. It's a part of every single ancient culture's history, regardless of where in the world they live, so I think it happened.

[lokithelion]

Props to my dad on being pretty fluent in both latin and hebrew.

huh, interesting. was this person someone who would have been around people who spoke either languages frequently?

Nope. My father learned them in seminary, and the woman in question was raised in Tennessee and studied grief counseling in college. Her background in foreign language was in spanish and she had absolutely not exposure to Hebrew. She might have heard some Latin in a move somewhere, but no major exposure to it.

[benchwarmer]

This can go the other way too, with any person that believe in a "god." No one can prove there is a god of any sort. I think it comes down to personal beliefs. I have no doubt in my mind that there is not a god/afterlife anything of that type. No one can prove or disprove anything, and while that falls under the definition of angosticicsm, being agnostic pretty much means being skeptical of it all, I'm not skeptical, like I already said, there is no doubt in my mind.

Being agnostic doesn't mean skeptic. It means you believe it is impossible to have absolute knowledge of the existence or lack of existence of God. You have no doubt that God doesn't exist, but do you at least admit that the possibility exists since you have no absolute knowledge of the universe? Its more philosophical than skepticism.

But I don't think it's possible. That's why I consider myself an atheist.

I think wikipedia has 2 pretty good definitions:

Agnostic

Agnostics claim either that it is not possible to have absolute or certain knowledge of the existence or nonexistence of God or gods; or, alternatively, that while individual certainty may be possible, they personally have no knowledge. Agnosticism in both cases involves some form of skepticism. There are, however, some agnostics who believe in a god.

Atheist

Atheism, as a philosophical view, is the position that either affirms the nonexistence of gods[1] or rejects theism.[2] When defined more broadly, atheism is the absence of belief in deities,[3] alternatively called nontheism.[4] Although atheism is often equated with irreligion, some religious philosophies, such as secular theology and some varieties of Theravada Buddhism, also lack belief in a personal god.

[lokithelion]

I understand, my problem with Atheism comes from my background. I can't understand someone being able to except anything absolutely, that they cannot prove, there for Atheism makes no sense at all to me. tis all good.

[riddle350]

I understand, my problem with Atheism comes from my background. I can't understand someone being able to except anything absolutely, that they cannot prove, there for Atheism makes no sense at all to me. tis all good.

I get what both you and chris are saying.

I guess the way I feel is that I admit that it is possible that I am wrong and there is a god. It's just that I very strongly believe that I am not wrong.

[lokithelion]

I understand, my problem with Atheism comes from my background. I can't understand someone being able to except anything absolutely, that they cannot prove, there for Atheism makes no sense at all to me. tis all good.

I get what both you and chris are saying.

I guess the way I feel is that I admit that it is possible that I am wrong and there is a god. It's just that I very strongly believe that I am not wrong.

Traditionally though, the fact that you admit the possibility means you're a agnostic.

[riddle350]

yeah I suppose you are right. It's manly that I'm not too worried about being one or the other.

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

[rtw88]

I suppose I'm more agnostic than anything. I believe in a god similar to the judeo-christian god, but just not a dick. I'm not a believe in JC or any scripture or anything though.