counterfiction Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 There's nothing that bugs me more in the underground and especially the hardcore scene than when people use the word "faggot" to describe someone. It's not meant as a friendly joke either, don't give me that shit, it's meant to embarrass and emasculate the other person by implying that they are gay and that being gay is a bad thing. I just wish people would grow up and open their eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainmorgan Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 I don't think "privilege" is the right word. Maybe convenience. Nobody is granting or revoking anyone's sexual orientation. I think its not the word but the wording that causes confusion. It's not the privilege of being straight, its the privileges that are automatically granted if you are. Dante hit the nail on the head comparing it to "white privilege" *also, this whole discussion has made me pretty happy. it's really nice that people around here are so generally level-headed and reasonable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danalive Posted January 24, 2008 Author Share Posted January 24, 2008 I don't think "privilege" is the right word. Maybe convenience. Nobody is granting or revoking anyone's sexual orientation. I think its not the word but the wording that causes confusion. It's not the privilege of being straight, its the privileges that are automatically granted if you are. Dante hit the nail on the head comparing it to "white privilege" *also, this whole discussion has made me pretty happy. it's really nice that people around here are so generally level-headed and reasonable yeah i agree. i didnt really know what to expect when i posted this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronniethebear Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Thankfully the majority of people here are quite accepting and tactful about most things. That's not to say that we can still have a laugh about it too, but it's nice that everyone isn't all "no care ever" about everything, unlike other boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtz Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 but it's nice that everyone isn't all "no care ever" about everything, unlike other boards. Maybe someone should post this on Lambgoat. I think the response would be quite different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronniethebear Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Haha, jesus. I can't even imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thestigmachine Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 As a gay man myself, I guess I should probably contribute to this thread in some way. Well, I just wanted to say that I applaud those of you who actively try to cut out words like "faggot" from your vocabulary. Personally, I've never let it bother me too much. But a report published here in Norway a few years ago stated that as much as 25% of young (I can't quite remember what age-span the report covered, but I think it was something like 16-25) gays and lesbians had at some point seriously considered or tried to commit suicide. And god knows how many "succeeded". Luckily I'm part of the other 75%, but I can totally understand that when society has been telling you that you're unnatural and sick, it can eventually become too much. When you're an insecure 15 year old kid, and your friend calls something "totally gay", your other friends will probably forget what was said in about 5 minutes. But that 15 year old kid might remember the exact phrasing of that sentence for a long time. So yeah, I think it's important for people to be aware of what they're actually saying. So even if it doesn't bother someone to call something "gay", and it doesn't bother ME to hear it, at some point it will bother someone for sure. But on a more positive note, I've seen a LOT of change happen here in Norway in just the last 5 years or so. I don't know if it's the same in the US, but around here society has really opened up its eyes. Personally, I've never had a problem with being gay in the years I've been out of the cupboard. (I'm 26 now, and I guess I started telling people when I was about 20-21) Of course, I don't exactly go out in the street and yell out "Hey, I'm gay!!" But every single one of my friends and co-workers have been 100% supportive. And listening mostly to punk music, it's been really cool to witness how the punk scene has been on the forefront of gay rights, and accepting people for who they are. (At least that's how I've seen it) So maybe I've just been incredibly lucky, but things are constantly improving here in Norway, and I hope the same goes for the USA. But as for "gay pride"? I'm not proud of being gay. I'm proud of being a somewhat decent human being that try to look out for the people I care about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronniethebear Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 But as for "gay pride"? I'm not proud of being gay. I'm proud of being a somewhat decent human being that try to look out for the people I care about. The world needs more people like you, good sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottheisel Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 out of the cupboard Curious: Is this what Europeans say instead of "out of the closet"? I'd never heard it before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronniethebear Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Cupboard is another name for closet, so I would assume so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thestigmachine Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Haha, no it was just me trying to be funny. Because I hate the term "out of the closet". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokithelion Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 As a gay man myself, I guess I should probably contribute to this thread in some way.Well, I just wanted to say that I applaud those of you who actively try to cut out words like "faggot" from your vocabulary. Personally, I've never let it bother me too much. But a report published here in Norway a few years ago stated that as much as 25% of young (I can't quite remember what age-span the report covered, but I think it was something like 16-25) gays and lesbians had at some point seriously considered or tried to commit suicide. And god knows how many "succeeded". Luckily I'm part of the other 75%, but I can totally understand that when society has been telling you that you're unnatural and sick, it can eventually become too much. When you're an insecure 15 year old kid, and your friend calls something "totally gay", your other friends will probably forget what was said in about 5 minutes. But that 15 year old kid might remember the exact phrasing of that sentence for a long time. So yeah, I think it's important for people to be aware of what they're actually saying. So even if it doesn't bother someone to call something "gay", and it doesn't bother ME to hear it, at some point it will bother someone for sure. But on a more positive note, I've seen a LOT of change happen here in Norway in just the last 5 years or so. I don't know if it's the same in the US, but around here society has really opened up its eyes. Personally, I've never had a problem with being gay in the years I've been out of the cupboard. (I'm 26 now, and I guess I started telling people when I was about 20-21) Of course, I don't exactly go out in the street and yell out "Hey, I'm gay!!" But every single one of my friends and co-workers have been 100% supportive. And listening mostly to punk music, it's been really cool to witness how the punk scene has been on the forefront of gay rights, and accepting people for who they are. (At least that's how I've seen it) So maybe I've just been incredibly lucky, but things are constantly improving here in Norway, and I hope the same goes for the USA. But as for "gay pride"? I'm not proud of being gay. I'm proud of being a somewhat decent human being that try to look out for the people I care about. Totally serious. If I send you photos of my junk will you hunt down some black metal wax for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottheisel Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Haha, no it was just me trying to be funny. Because I hate the term "out of the closet". Fair enough! I wasn't sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jawbroken Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 when i first decided to try not call things "gay" or "fag", etc. it took a lot of thought, but now its not even a problem. its like reversing the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scriptedrain Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I don't think "privilege" is the right word. Maybe convenience. Nobody is granting or revoking anyone's sexual orientation. I think its not the word but the wording that causes confusion. It's not the privilege of being straight, its the privileges that are automatically granted if you are. Dante hit the nail on the head comparing it to "white privilege" *also, this whole discussion has made me pretty happy. it's really nice that people around here are so generally level-headed and reasonable Again, I don't think privilege is the word. A privilege is something granted to you by someone else, as well as something you can lose. I don't disagree with what you're saying as far as the idea that straight people have advantages in our society, but I disagree that these advantages are privileges. It's a small point, but just saying. It is nice to see somewhat civil discussion, though. When this board started out last June, that's what made up a good portion of the posts. This place is still better than most, but it's turned more into your average message board as time has passed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcm1610 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Not to entirely sidetrack the thread into the "privilege" debate, but I think it fits. You ARE being granted something by someone by being straight. You have the "privilege" of being able to openly express your hetero-love without being targeted. Society grants you that ability. It might not be the best word, but it's not wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steventangent Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Then you could extend that by saying I have the "privilege" of not being in love with my cousin, or the "privilege" of not being a NAMBLA member, I guess. And gay people have that privilege as well, unless they are NAMBLA members or in love with their cousins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thestigmachine Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Totally serious. If I send you photos of my junk will you hunt down some black metal wax for me. Of your WHAT now?! I wouldn't know where to begin looking for black metal stuff. Vinyl isn't all that popular around here. (That's why I have to order all my vinyl from the US). Guess I'll just have to live with the fact that I'll never get to see your "junk". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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