Electronic Cigarette Discussion

[controlthebleeding]

Here's a comparison that may make more sense. Vinyl sales are on the rise, but more Crosley turntables are purchased than anything else.

And by legitimate/credible information... you mean peer reviewed, scientific literature isn't either? Oh. Apparently everyone in the scientific community should just start believing vapor companies I guess?

Of course, believe the companies who take your money. Of course they have your best interest in mind. What do I gain from you stopping?

I get the comparison... and I agree, there should be more stringent testing on e liquids. But a lot of our vendors already test their juices and the juice manufacturers aren't just faceless companies. Many are my friends that i hang out with and I have uttermost trust in them. again in most cases. Njoy and blu, I wouldnt bother dealing with and would never in a million years recommend.

Yes usually do have the interest of vapers In mind. Cuttwood did a complete recall of a juice they added frosting whitener too, suicide bunny had all her juices tested and alljuices came back negative or with non traceable amounts of certain carcinogens. So yes they do have the interest of the community in mind.

[ajxd]

Again, I don't see any links to actual articles from reputable sources. You also seem to be very defensive which is odd.

You make it sound like we're 100% dedicated to the act regardless of the repercussions, most of us went to vaping from cigarettes because there is irrefutable proof of the dangers associated with cigarette use- meaning we obviously give a fuck about our health in one way or another.

I guarantee you if you if I saw credible evidence that vaping is as dangerous I wouldn't do it, but just saying you can prove it and actually showing us proof are two very different things. No need to get mad, just back your statements.

How is PLoSOne not credible?

That article clearly states that caused IL-6 and IL-8 up-regulation.

Please tell me what you consider credible.

[Shitty Rambo]

How is PLoSOne not credible?

That article clearly states that caused IL-6 and IL-8 up-regulation.

Please tell me what you consider credible.

Whatever dude, I'm not going to do this back and forth nonsense. I'm not in your field of work so I have no idea what that is. Remember, you brought yourself into this thread. Nobody asked you to post here. Like you said, you don't gain anything from stopping us from vaping. If you don't care then give it up already and move along.

[ajxd]

You seem to be super hostile! You asked for credible source after I posted a peer-reviewed scientific research article... So I'd like to know what's credible to you. That's all. Relax.

[Shitty Rambo]

You seem to be super hostile! You asked for credible source after I posted a peer-reviewed scientific research article... So I'd like to know what's credible to you. That's all. Relax.

Not at all hostile, just dismissive. If you want to continue this you're gonna be doing it by yourself

[controlthebleeding]

How is PLoSOne not credible?

That article clearly states that caused IL-6 and IL-8 up-regulation.

Please tell me what you consider credible.

 

its' not that it's not credible. it's just not accurate in it's findings due to the way ecigs are studied..

 

also from the new england journal of medicine: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc1413069

 

 

seems credible correct? wrong. testing was done in a incorrect manner. this is why i don't always believe every medical research that's out there, no matter how credible they seem to be.  and that's just the most recent example.

 

i know there are things that need to change, but not necessarily what you might imagine. when youre in the industry you know what to look for with products. most people are vocal amongst anyone who makes shoddy products. it's been self regulating for years. you'd be surprised at the amount of chemicals that use to be in certain liquids at one time till the industry changed itself. this is not including the major tobacco companies who produced ecigs, or blu, or what not. im talking the real industry. not the commercial one. 

[ajxd]

its' not that it's not credible. it's just not accurate in it's findings due to the way ecigs are studied..

 

also from the new england journal of medicine: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc1413069

 

 

seems credible correct? wrong. testing was done in a incorrect manner. this is why i don't always believe every medical research that's out there, no matter how credible they seem to be.  and that's just the most recent example.

 

Will you explain to me how 1) the PLoS One article is not accurate, and 2) how the article you posted was done in an incorrect manner? I haven't read the article yet, but I'd like to know from your side.

[controlthebleeding]

the Plos one article, i'd have to read over. i tiredly read it last night while waiting for laundry, you said why is a research story on PLos One not credible.. i gave an exact reason why it may not be.. i can't look over something and break it down in 5 minutes when running on 3 hours of sleep. 

 

in short, the study from the NEJM found high traces of formaldehyde in said ecigs that were far more dangerous than regular analog cigs. while that may be true, they failed to mention in every article and news piece that it was tested on various atomizers with no liquid at a 5.5 volt rate in large intervals.  people dont' vape dry wicks.. which completely turned into a fear mongering piece amongst the media. this is why i trust vary few news articles. 

 

though there was one that found diacityl in a lot of liquids that used cream flavorings. people went ape shit, and everyone started changing their formulas. so while i don't despute some things from the science community, im skeptical about a lot o research because a lot has been dubunked. 

 

also if you know how to change fonts in certain pages, let me know. this prince font is annoying the living shit out of me. 

[ajxd]

Your statement of bias making it irrevelant can go both ways. On par with your statement that the companies do care about their users... Yes- they care enough to keep you as a customer. Big Tobacco cares about their customers too! But not because you're their friend. To quote Wu-Tang, "Cash rules everything around me", without the customers, there is no company.

 

So for the formaldehyde issue from NEJM: I don't see any of the data showing the dry methods. I will say, when conducting experiments like this, I can understand why a dry run would be used. Controls are important, you must know everything that is possible. People will do things they shouldn't do. Hell, look at that figure. It clearly shows at the low voltage, there's no detection by NMR... but how many people only just low voltage?

 

And yeah, the media makes everything something it shouldn't. I can't tell you how many times I've been tagged in that VICE video about using viruses to "cure" cancer.

 

I appreciate you discussing this. I have been asked to present my work at the American Thoracic Society's International conference this May. They've opened a whole new section on e-cigs (I missed last year, but 2 years ago, I heard one talk on it). I'll be interested to hear what's in the works (not published yet).

[Guest]

My main problem with ecigs, is that they make me cough like crazy for hours. I've tried cheap ones, and hit more expensive mod ones, but it always seems like the vapor sits in my lungs for a few hours making me cough.

[controlthebleeding]

i guess you'd have to be part of the community to understand the company aspect and how juice makers and mod makers are. it's not like buying product from wal-mart. it's more like your friend has a company and youre buying from him. i know and hang out with my juice makers from time to time. some more than others. i know the processes and how the facility is run and the products they use. which is why i trust them. if you vape enough you can actually tell the difference with a bad juice and a juice that is made with the highest ingredients. anyway, 

 

there's tons of info on google that refuted that NEJM research about it and even a interview with the scientists claiming they went about it the wrong way. basically with misleading results and cancer risks for something vapors don't do. 

 

good luck with everything nonetheless.. im off to work.

[controlthebleeding]

My main problem with ecigs, is that they make me cough like crazy for hours. I've tried cheap ones, and hit more expensive mod ones, but it always seems like the vapor sits in my lungs for a few hours making me cough.

 

that might be the juice. you'd be surprised that many have allergies to pg. i can't do less than 70/30 vg/pg due to the act that it gives me headaches.. my doctor had to tell me this oddly enough.  i got heavy vg juices and my headaches went away. 

[Guest]

That would make sense. Guess I'll give that a try, since I'm trying to quit smoking.

 

The problem I have with certain people who use ecigs is how they claim it is completely safe. Putting anything in your lungs is not good for them. I'm still not sure I buy into them being a harmness reduction, but I'm sure we'll find out in the coming years.

[controlthebleeding]

That would make sense. Guess I'll give that a try, since I'm trying to quit smoking.

The problem I have with certain people who use ecigs is how they claim it is completely safe. Putting anything in your lungs is not good for them. I'm still not sure I buy into them being a harmness reduction, but I'm sure we'll find out in the coming years.

It's not completely 100%. But breathing in air in a congested city isn't either. But what I can say is my breathing and immuNE system are acting like rock stars since I quit smoking and started vaping. i have yet to get any cold/flu/etc or what not thats not due to Allergies. I can now run after the ice cream truck. Don't laugh. Though I will say this my nic is at the lowest it can be before 0 and I also don't vape on certain days and I have found I don't have the urge To vape. I do it anyway because it keeps me from eating lots of sweets Though.

[Guest]

I know, but I just take to issue to people like my coworker, who sits next to me and blow the vapor around all day. He keeps saying it's 100% safe, it's just water vapor and is not doing harm to anyone. People still have the right to not be exposed to it, just like 2nd hand smoke, without ill informed people telling them it's 100% safe.

 

Maybe my coworker is just a moron, since he's really the only one I've come across doing it outside a bar setting (which is fine, it's a bar).

[ajxd]

I feel controlthebleeding is the most knowledgeable person I've talked to who uses, though doesn't reference enough Most everyone else just says "I read somewhere..."

 

Everyone is an expert. Just look at the anti-vaccine movement

[controlthebleeding]

I know, but I just take to issue to people like my coworker, who sits next to me and blow the vapor around all day. He keeps saying it's 100% safe, it's just water vapor and is not doing harm to anyone. People still have the right to not be exposed to it, just like 2nd hand smoke, without ill informed people telling them it's 100% safe.

Maybe my coworker is just a moron, since he's really the only one I've come across doing it outside a bar setting (which is fine, it's a bar).

I'm not a fan of those people either. I don't vape where people aren't allowed to smoke except work. It can be 100% safe and I still wouldn't do it because it's annoying. Sorta like a woman with tooo much perfume. Smells can be sickening to some. Maybe I'm just full of manners. I don't know. It's technically, vg, some pg, and a lot of water And a minute % of nic.the moisture is mostly from you're mucus membrane. hence when it's always stated when u vape u need to stay hydrated or else you'll suffer from headaches And fatigue.

And nothing is ever 100% safe.