timsimmons

You’re right it’s not black and white. 
 
but also, this is not recent behavior. Since whiskeytown he’s demonstrated time and time again a pattern of toxic behavior. There are countless examples that come to mind from my almost 20 years of hardcore fandom. For a long time, me and certainly others wrote it off as rock n roll assholish behavior. But through the spectrum of the NYT article, it’s clear that it’s bigger and more ingrained than that. 
 
he does need help. I hope he truly makes amends and works to better himself (it’s not done after 2 years of radio silence and an apology in the daily mail (of all papers). A redemption story is one everyone loves. I hope he gets one. I’m just not optimistic. 

First of all, don't do this. It normalizes behavior like his. Can't give him a pass just because no one is perfect. At the risk of being #notallmen, you can't apples to apples peoples faults, errors, cruelties or crimes. 
 
Second, this is REALLY minimizing what he is/was accused of. But at the end of the day, its the power dynamics, emotional manipulation, creepy behavior, and flat out mental abuse that people are taking issue with. I HOPE people are pointing this out in their daily lives and not just on twitter or some messageboard. If we want a better society we have to hold people accountable and thats what people seem to be doing with Ryan. 
 
this is bullshit, no one is dogging him when he's not in the news. He's the one writing letters to the daily Mail or agreeing to interviews with LA magazines. And when he pops up, he wants the credit for doing the time, but doesn't want to put in the work. There has been no sincere or thorough mea culpa from him. That article makes it look like he's made some strides, but then when you see his IG meltdowns, you have to question whats really real. 
Do I hope he owns this, tries to make himself better, and be an advocate so he could come back? Absolutely. He's crazy talented. But if you are gonna treat people like shit (which has always been his pattern), do minimal leg work, want the credit and then whine that its others people fault thats keeping you down and not own your own shortcomings, well, you're gonna get called out every time you surface.
 

I mean, if you want to go that hard for post 2005 Ryan Adams, go for it dude. 

I think theres 2 types in this thread, those who are bummed/disgusted and don't want to support him and those who know its bad/don't give a shit about it, but want to find a way to move past it, to still be a fan. Both are pushing against the other for different reasons. 
 
 
And I'm not saying the latter group is OK with any of it, but I do think they are making concessions to personal responsibility or at least their empathy, in order to continually enjoy something and not be displaced. 
 
 

Putting aside that its important to keep talking about about patterns of abusive behavior in order to root it out, I think people keep bringing it up whenever theres news about Ryan because many were huge fans, and when this story broke, they felt betrayed. And on top of it, he's not getting better. 
 
 
 
 

He writes music heavily informed by his life and in particular his relationships. I mean, his whole shtick is being the heartbroken troubadour.
 
Its fine to ignore the personal stuff, and if you can bury your head like an ostrich and not know anything about him and focus only on the music, go for it. More power to you. But if you even know the story, I don't know how you can untangle the two.
 
I don't think people need a resume/wiki check to get into an artist, but if you hear or story or 2 its not unreasonable to have it impact how you view them.
 
 

First of all, don't do this. It normalizes behavior like his. Can't give him a pass just because no one is perfect. At the risk of being #notallmen, you can't apples to apples peoples faults, errors, cruelties or crimes. 
 
Second, this is REALLY minimizing what he is/was accused of. But at the end of the day, its the power dynamics, emotional manipulation, creepy behavior, and flat out mental abuse that people are taking issue with. I HOPE people are pointing this out in their daily lives and not just on twitter or some messageboard. If we want a better society we have to hold people accountable and thats what people seem to be doing with Ryan. 
 
this is bullshit, no one is dogging him when he's not in the news. He's the one writing letters to the daily Mail or agreeing to interviews with LA magazines. And when he pops up, he wants the credit for doing the time, but doesn't want to put in the work. There has been no sincere or thorough mea culpa from him. That article makes it look like he's made some strides, but then when you see his IG meltdowns, you have to question whats really real. 
Do I hope he owns this, tries to make himself better, and be an advocate so he could come back? Absolutely. He's crazy talented. But if you are gonna treat people like shit (which has always been his pattern), do minimal leg work, want the credit and then whine that its others people fault thats keeping you down and not own your own shortcomings, well, you're gonna get called out every time you surface.
 

you get how power dynamics work, right?
 

Basically I got tired of him being a dick. Also, I’ve realized I haven’t really enjoyed his music thoroughly for about 15 years (some stuff here and there). I wish he could have been a better person towards those women (and his fans and band mates over the years). 
 
but I wish people were kinder towards others in general

Also, the mental gymnastic you have to do to justify still enjoying a dude’s music is exhausting. 
 
I mean, like it or don’t. People who don’t have been explaining why. You still want to? Sweet. You aren’t being “cancelled” because of it. 
 

I think you have a misperception of how excited people are for Biden. 
 
 
 

Am I trolling here? 
 
I'm trying to do the same thing here that I did at TBY. To open hearts and minds that certain behavior should be unacceptable. 
 
Theres been a bunch of victim blaming in this thread and thats not fair. If you still want to listen to RA, go for it. But we can all agree, even if you think the NYT piece is wrong, that behavior is bad. And there are people who read that piece and still think its OK. 
 
Thats not OK by me. 

I get there are people on the left looking for fights. Those types of people exist on all sides though. People just want to fight now a days. They don't give a shit what the issue is. And in some cases, it can come down to nitpicking actions, but also, maybe we've lived in the dark so long about peoples behavior that a larger swath of people are kinda done with letting bad shit just slip by without being called out. 
 
 
 

NO ONE IS REALLY CANCELLED. The reality is people don't like a certain behavior and they are fine leaving artists or whoever behind.  People can still go about doing their shit. they'll just have less fans. teh only people that get hurt about "cancellation" are people who, I don't know, are insecure about people they like fucking up and losing fans. 
 
 
 

I’ll participate

First of all, don't do this. It normalizes behavior like his. Can't give him a pass just because no one is perfect. At the risk of being #notallmen, you can't apples to apples peoples faults, errors, cruelties or crimes. 
 
Second, this is REALLY minimizing what he is/was accused of. But at the end of the day, its the power dynamics, emotional manipulation, creepy behavior, and flat out mental abuse that people are taking issue with. I HOPE people are pointing this out in their daily lives and not just on twitter or some messageboard. If we want a better society we have to hold people accountable and thats what people seem to be doing with Ryan. 
 
this is bullshit, no one is dogging him when he's not in the news. He's the one writing letters to the daily Mail or agreeing to interviews with LA magazines. And when he pops up, he wants the credit for doing the time, but doesn't want to put in the work. There has been no sincere or thorough mea culpa from him. That article makes it look like he's made some strides, but then when you see his IG meltdowns, you have to question whats really real. 
Do I hope he owns this, tries to make himself better, and be an advocate so he could come back? Absolutely. He's crazy talented. But if you are gonna treat people like shit (which has always been his pattern), do minimal leg work, want the credit and then whine that its others people fault thats keeping you down and not own your own shortcomings, well, you're gonna get called out every time you surface.
 

First of all, don't do this. It normalizes behavior like his. Can't give him a pass just because no one is perfect. At the risk of being #notallmen, you can't apples to apples peoples faults, errors, cruelties or crimes. 
 
Second, this is REALLY minimizing what he is/was accused of. But at the end of the day, its the power dynamics, emotional manipulation, creepy behavior, and flat out mental abuse that people are taking issue with. I HOPE people are pointing this out in their daily lives and not just on twitter or some messageboard. If we want a better society we have to hold people accountable and thats what people seem to be doing with Ryan. 
 
this is bullshit, no one is dogging him when he's not in the news. He's the one writing letters to the daily Mail or agreeing to interviews with LA magazines. And when he pops up, he wants the credit for doing the time, but doesn't want to put in the work. There has been no sincere or thorough mea culpa from him. That article makes it look like he's made some strides, but then when you see his IG meltdowns, you have to question whats really real. 
Do I hope he owns this, tries to make himself better, and be an advocate so he could come back? Absolutely. He's crazy talented. But if you are gonna treat people like shit (which has always been his pattern), do minimal leg work, want the credit and then whine that its others people fault thats keeping you down and not own your own shortcomings, well, you're gonna get called out every time you surface.
 

Bad look Ryan
 
   
 

I think theres 2 types in this thread, those who are bummed/disgusted and don't want to support him and those who know its bad/don't give a shit about it, but want to find a way to move past it, to still be a fan. Both are pushing against the other for different reasons. 
 
 
And I'm not saying the latter group is OK with any of it, but I do think they are making concessions to personal responsibility or at least their empathy, in order to continually enjoy something and not be displaced. 
 
 

Putting aside that its important to keep talking about about patterns of abusive behavior in order to root it out, I think people keep bringing it up whenever theres news about Ryan because many were huge fans, and when this story broke, they felt betrayed. And on top of it, he's not getting better. 
 
 
 
 

He writes music heavily informed by his life and in particular his relationships. I mean, his whole shtick is being the heartbroken troubadour.
 
Its fine to ignore the personal stuff, and if you can bury your head like an ostrich and not know anything about him and focus only on the music, go for it. More power to you. But if you even know the story, I don't know how you can untangle the two.
 
I don't think people need a resume/wiki check to get into an artist, but if you hear or story or 2 its not unreasonable to have it impact how you view them.
 
 

Putting aside that its important to keep talking about about patterns of abusive behavior in order to root it out, I think people keep bringing it up whenever theres news about Ryan because many were huge fans, and when this story broke, they felt betrayed. And on top of it, he's not getting better. 
 
 
 
 

I think theres 2 types in this thread, those who are bummed/disgusted and don't want to support him and those who know its bad/don't give a shit about it, but want to find a way to move past it, to still be a fan. Both are pushing against the other for different reasons. 
 
 
And I'm not saying the latter group is OK with any of it, but I do think they are making concessions to personal responsibility or at least their empathy, in order to continually enjoy something and not be displaced. 
 
 

He writes music heavily informed by his life and in particular his relationships. I mean, his whole shtick is being the heartbroken troubadour.
 
Its fine to ignore the personal stuff, and if you can bury your head like an ostrich and not know anything about him and focus only on the music, go for it. More power to you. But if you even know the story, I don't know how you can untangle the two.
 
I don't think people need a resume/wiki check to get into an artist, but if you hear or story or 2 its not unreasonable to have it impact how you view them.
 
 

First of all, don't do this. It normalizes behavior like his. Can't give him a pass just because no one is perfect. At the risk of being #notallmen, you can't apples to apples peoples faults, errors, cruelties or crimes. 
 
Second, this is REALLY minimizing what he is/was accused of. But at the end of the day, its the power dynamics, emotional manipulation, creepy behavior, and flat out mental abuse that people are taking issue with. I HOPE people are pointing this out in their daily lives and not just on twitter or some messageboard. If we want a better society we have to hold people accountable and thats what people seem to be doing with Ryan. 
 
this is bullshit, no one is dogging him when he's not in the news. He's the one writing letters to the daily Mail or agreeing to interviews with LA magazines. And when he pops up, he wants the credit for doing the time, but doesn't want to put in the work. There has been no sincere or thorough mea culpa from him. That article makes it look like he's made some strides, but then when you see his IG meltdowns, you have to question whats really real. 
Do I hope he owns this, tries to make himself better, and be an advocate so he could come back? Absolutely. He's crazy talented. But if you are gonna treat people like shit (which has always been his pattern), do minimal leg work, want the credit and then whine that its others people fault thats keeping you down and not own your own shortcomings, well, you're gonna get called out every time you surface.