circuit bored records Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Figured I'd make a catch-all thread for cartridges as I don't think there's been one of this forum. Thinking of moving to something different, I've had a Shure m97xe for years now, upgraded to a Jico SAS stylus a while back which I've been pretty happy with for the time. Looking at an AT440mla and was wondering if anyone had any experience with it or any other recommendations for something else in the $200-300 range. For reference, I didn't like the sound of the 2m series Ortofon, too bright and don't track well in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Have you tried anything from Nagaoka? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
circuit bored records Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share Posted July 27, 2014 Have you tried anything from Nagaoka? No sir, although I've read a little about the MP150 being compared to the at440.. the one thing I liked reading and hearing about the 440 is that it tracks like an absolute champ with virtually no igd, the best essentially for the price point. Id like to read more into Nagaoka though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxmartinxx Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I've never heard a AT440mla, but I'm of the understanding that it's a pretty bright cartridge as well. What isn't you modded Shure doing for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
circuit bored records Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share Posted July 27, 2014 I've never heard a AT440mla, but I'm of the understanding that it's a pretty bright cartridge as well. What isn't you modded Shure doing for you? Simply put, it lacks on the low-end. Noticeably so from the stock stylus. I honestly don't mind bright, as that was the major difference when I switched to the Jico, but I do mind brightness combined with terrible tracking which is what I found in the Ortofons I tried. It makes everything sibilant, especially since I mostly listen to metal and rock... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I'm a big fan of a lot of the AT and Nagaoka MM's I've never heard a AT440mla, but I'm of the understanding that it's a pretty bright cartridge as well. What isn't you modded Shure doing for you? The comments about brightness with a lot of these MM's is sometimes to do with loading but you can also do a lot with adjusting the VTA on a lot of these carts and they all have a sweet spot. Unfortunately one of the big down sides to Rega's and Projects as standard is the lack of adjustable VTA I have also found AT's less bright than Ortofons generally and yes all of the AT's I have had track very well. I suggested the Nagaoka's because of similar qualities to the AT's but I can only vouch for the original ones with 2 digit numbers like MP10 etc. I don't know for sure but I expect an MP150 is exactly the same as an MP15 in a different colour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Simply put, it lacks on the low-end. Noticeably so from the stock stylus. I honestly don't mind bright, as that was the major difference when I switched to the Jico, but I do mind brightness combined with terrible tracking which is what I found in the Ortofons I tried. It makes everything sibilant, especially since I mostly listen to metal and rock... Are you able to adjust the VTA on your arm or the loading on your phono stage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
circuit bored records Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share Posted July 27, 2014 Are you able to adjust the VTA on your arm or the loading on your phono stage?Right now I'm using a Pioneer PL-550 so I can adjust VTA on it, but cannot adjust loading on my phono pre amp.Thanks for your guys' help so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Of course you have, you may find it's another reason it won out with your Project. Ok have a play with the VTA, it can be laborious but worth the fiddling. When I'm setting up I will listen to the same track over and over adjusting the VTA very slightly each time. The ideal is usually with the top of the tonearm dead flat so you need to make sure the player is dead level before you start otherwise your eyes will deceive your ears. A dead flat tonearm is not always correct but it's always a good starting point and you can hear when you are going the wrong way, I usually know when I've hit the sweet spot though, it's usually pretty obvious. Might get you nowhere but might make it sound right so settle down with a beer and a record you know well and give it a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxmartinxx Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I'm a big fan of a lot of the AT and Nagaoka MM's The comments about brightness with a lot of these MM's is sometimes to do with loading but you can also do a lot with adjusting the VTA on a lot of these carts and they all have a sweet spot. Unfortunately one of the big down sides to Rega's and Projects as standard is the lack of adjustable VTA I have also found AT's less bright than Ortofons generally and yes all of the AT's I have had track very well. I suggested the Nagaoka's because of similar qualities to the AT's but I can only vouch for the original ones with 2 digit numbers like MP10 etc. I don't know for sure but I expect an MP150 is exactly the same as an MP15 in a different colour. I don't like the Ortofon 2m series until it gets to the gold or orange or bronze or whatever they call it color. The black is a very nice sounding cart, too. I'm a fan of the Denon DL103, however, sometimes having enough gain can be a problem as they're pretty low output. For the money, I don't think anything touches it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
circuit bored records Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share Posted July 27, 2014 Yeah I've read a little about the Denon but I'd be a little more nervous going with an MC cart as most are low-output from what I understand, and my phono stage is built into a preprocessor and doesn't have any loading adjustment (Marantz AV7701). I'm trying to find a cart that is fulfilled by amazon so I know I have a return policy working in my favor. It's not like there are any hifi shops where I can audition these side by side. I'm still leaning toward the at440 but the Nagaoka's sound better and better the more I read about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I don't like the Ortofon 2m series until it gets to the gold or orange or bronze or whatever they call it color. The black is a very nice sounding cart, too. I'm a fan of the Denon DL103, however, sometimes having enough gain can be a problem as they're pretty low output. For the money, I don't think anything touches it. The DL103 is one of those cult classics and one of the few that gets hyped up that is reasonable value for money. Yeah I've read a little about the Denon but I'd be a little more nervous going with an MC cart as most are low-output from what I understand, and my phono stage is built into a preprocessor and doesn't have any loading adjustment (Marantz AV7701). I'm trying to find a cart that is fulfilled by amazon so I know I have a return policy working in my favor. It's not like there are any hifi shops where I can audition these side by side. I'm still leaning toward the at440 but the Nagaoka's sound better and better the more I read about them. There are various things that can go in between to up the output to MM levels, there are transformers and amplifiers around, I think Pickering still make a battery powered one that is surprisingly good for it's price. That said if you are using an AV amp it's on board phono might be a limiting factor as you move up the cartridge tree, that is a bit of a guess though as I haven't heard an AV7701 so can't say for sure. I get your point about the return policy if you can't try them but also have a look around for new old stock Nagaoka's they do still come up even if you end up buying a used cart and a new old stock stylus, no return policy there of course so the price needs to be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I've been wanting to upgrade to an MC cart. I figured it'd be a fun switch up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcguirk Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Also consider the Denon DL110. I seriously can't imagine trading my DL110 for anything else until I am looking to spend $1000+. Allen, I have found that when finding a neutral VTA the tonearm level is rather useless. The important measure is the level at the head shell as measured by a cheap and small bullseye bubble level. In the US you can find them in the tools section of Home Depot for just a few dollars. As a side benefit, you can confirm that your lateral level is on point. Believe it or not, I can adjust the head shell of my Thorens TD166mkii in the lateral plane. These measurements should be calculated with a proper VTF and the cartridge engaged on a throwaway record. But you are correct about the procedure. Play your favorite track over and over and over again. My reference is The Starting Line's "Island" and it can take me 30 minutes of critical listening through a quality headphone amp and headphones to achieve my goal. Don't get discouraged. If you don't have an adjustable VTA then you can increase treble response with a thinner slipmat or increase bass response with a thicker slipmat and/or some shims between the cartridge and head shell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Mcguirk you should hear a Dynavector 20X2 or Soundsmith Carmen. Both under $1k.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Also consider the Denon DL110. I seriously can't imagine trading my DL110 for anything else until I am looking to spend $1000+. I will add I have been eyeing this one though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 mcguirk whatever suits with the VTA adjusting wise, as you say it can be a long process so as long as you feel comfortable it doesn't really matter which method you choose but make sure the turntable itself is level. I pretty much do it just by ear now. The other MC's that spring to mind are the Benz Micro's, i'm not sure they are still going and I have never tried one but always wanted to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForSunday Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 AT-440MLa is the best cart I've owned so far, I had a Shure m97xE before and hated it. Tried altering capacitance and even change preamp it was just boring and terrible. The AT carts are just so much more engaging and the highs are great, also microline stylus makes those inner grooves sound perfect. I also have two AT-110e carts which are great for the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I also have two AT-110e carts which are great for the price. Yes had a pair of those in my DJ decks for a while, great value for money. I've replaced them with a pair of Grado Gt's now as the decks only get used for listening at home, the Grado's would be useless for DJing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 AT-440MLa is the best cart I've owned so far, I had a Shure m97xE before and hated it. Tried altering capacitance and even change preamp it was just boring and terrible. Forgot to say it's probably the resistance you needed to change rather than the capacitance, AT's are quite often not at the 47k ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
circuit bored records Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 Got the at440mla today, spent about an hour installing it and setting VTF and VTA. Holy moly, this thing sounds really good. It's just as bright as the JICO SAS on the m97xe but it tracks soo much better. Every groove sounds as good as the one before it. I've never had a cart that handled inner grooves as well as this one. Much better low end as well, which is what the SAS was lacking to my ears. Really happy with my purchase, this thing will definitely stay on this table for a really long time, I wouldn't really see a need to upgrade it without changing out the whole table for something different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Good to hear Getting the right cartridge can be a lot more luck than judgement as there are quite a few values in a cartridge or tonearm spec that have a bearing. Things like compliance and mass etc. There used to be charts published to show cart and arm compatibility as as you are using a vintage turntable you might be able to find that sort of info with some internet searching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drownmeinestrogen Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 How bright is the AT440mla exactly? Was thinking about getting it for my SL-1200, but I tend to favor a more relaxed high end. Piercing cymbals are a no-go for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tardcore Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 How bright is the AT440mla exactly? Was thinking about getting it for my SL-1200, but I tend to favor a more relaxed high end. Piercing cymbals are a no-go for me. Please use this scale to identify the EXACT brightness level. drownmeinestrogen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drownmeinestrogen Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Please use this scale to identify the EXACT brightness level. Yes please, this shit needs to be precise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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