Anyone watching the DNC?

[riddle350]

I'm still holding out hope that Obama will move back towards the left once he's elected. It deffinetly bothers me that he seems to have taken a do whatever it takes to win sort of mentality coughHILLARYcough

[sgoodcore]

Both conventions are a bunch of ra ra BS if you ask me. Just more fodder for the media to make "news" out of things that aren't news and divert attention away from the real issues going on.

Democracy Now! has the only worthwhile coverage of this thing.

[http]

Funny how Jimmy Carter, who's had a lot of insightful stuff to say the past couple years, barely gets the time of day considering he's 1 of the only 2 Democratic presidents in how long?

The two parties are hardly distinguishable anymore.

And since I'm already ranting, Joe Biden? Are you kidding me? How can anyone take this 'change' nonsense seriously? I mean Joe fucking Biden? A warhawk, drug warrior, corporate lackey? His middle class sympathy speech was quite the joke.

Sorry, but between Joe Biden and Obama's enlisting so many of the advisors from the Clinton era like Madeline Albright, Warren Christopher, Tony Lake, William Perry, etc. (people behind a lot of violence) for his foreign policy advisement it's looking like change is the last thing we're going to see from either of one the candidates. Don't be fooled.

Oh fucking christ the man has to get elected to do anything. this country just fucking put Bush in office for 8 god forsaken shittastic years. Do you think they're going to elect a Latin and Black man at the same time? OR a woman and a black man? Fuck people give the Biden choice a break. You have to get in the system to break it down you can't just bull rush people. You don't go from 0 to 40 right away you go to 5, then 10, then 20, then 40.

Ahh makes me crazy. Biden was a piece to get elected more than anything else. He'll appease the part of the country that should know better but doesn't.

Too many people believe you get the change all at once. That's not how it works. You go Obama now then you go to someone a little more to the left because like how the country is working and you progress in that direction until you've got someone who's a progressive/liberal or whatever running things. You can't go from Bush to a bleeding heart progressive, it doesn't work that way. You'd freak people out and then you'd have 8 more god damn years of Bush when people voted for McCain. You need some damn practicality.

Do you think everyting changes overnight? Like somehow we go from 8 years of Bush to electing Nader? I mean principles are great but sometimes you have to play the game and get in for the long haul with some patience. You can't change a country's thinking, especially a country of 260 million people, over night. I mean people believe Obama is a Muslim for shit sake.

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

What does the VP do anyways other than help balance the political spectrum? Has a the tie breaker vote in the Senate? Besides that, he's just there to act/talk/meet with people on behalf of the President and the People, not on his own terms. He doesn't pass laws, he doesn't write laws, unless you count the rarity of his Senate vote, he's just there as a show piece.

I do think its interesting how the VP sits on the Board of the Smithsonian... I wonder how many meetings Cheney was actually present for. For some reason, I don't view him as that cultural of a human being...

[sgoodcore]

What does the VP do anyways other than help balance the political spectrum? Has a the tie breaker vote in the Senate? Besides that, he's just there to act/talk/meet with people on behalf of the President and the People, not on his own terms. He doesn't pass laws, he doesn't write laws, unless you count the rarity of his Senate vote, he's just there as a show piece.

I do think its interesting how the VP sits on the Board of the Smithsonian... I wonder how many meetings Cheney was actually present for. For some reason, I don't view him as that cultural of a human being...

Well his most important thing is he could be the president if something happens to the president.

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

duh? I meant on a daily basis, what is the roll of a VP? nothing much more than a spokesperson for the president really

[sgoodcore]

He's mainly an advocate and an adviser. His main political responsibility is president of the Senate.

[Guest baseball]

Oh fucking christ the man has to get elected to do anything. this country just fucking put Bush in office for 8 god forsaken shittastic years. Do you think they're going to elect a Latin and Black man at the same time? OR a woman and a black man? Fuck people give the Biden choice a break. You have to get in the system to break it down you can't just bull rush people. You don't go from 0 to 40 right away you go to 5, then 10, then 20, then 40.

Ahh makes me crazy. Biden was a piece to get elected more than anything else. He'll appease the part of the country that should know better but doesn't.

Too many people believe you get the change all at once. That's not how it works. You go Obama now then you go to someone a little more to the left because like how the country is working and you progress in that direction until you've got someone who's a progressive/liberal or whatever running things. You can't go from Bush to a bleeding heart progressive, it doesn't work that way. You'd freak people out and then you'd have 8 more god damn years of Bush when people voted for McCain. You need some damn practicality.

Do you think everyting changes overnight? Like somehow we go from 8 years of Bush to electing Nader? I mean principles are great but sometimes you have to play the game and get in for the long haul with some patience. You can't change a country's thinking, especially a country of 260 million people, over night. I mean people believe Obama is a Muslim for shit sake.

Well first off, just directed at the thread in general, the vice president has considerable influence. No, he doesn't write laws or anything, but as a main player in the administration you have a lot of influence toward the people that do. It's still a job, and you can't tell me there aren't a lot of politicians out there that just don't want to piss off the administration. Every administration, including the vice president, has plenty of sway.

----------------------------------------

First off, I was never advocating revolutionary changes or anything. I'm not sure how you gathered that from my post. All I was doing was calling things like I see them.

I don't really subscribe to the belief that we should have to play these political games. Everyone's trying so hard to please their little focus groups of constituents that we all lose in the end. That's what bugs me more than anything. I don't care for partisan politics, there's politicians on the left, right, and center that all have my respect on different things. It's the partisan game that leaves us twiddling our thumbs as is.

Why should I believe that electing Obama is going to change anything? 2 years ago the people made a pretty bold statement and took a bunch of Republicans out of office because of the Iraq war, and wouldn't you know it, two years later there's been hardly any progress made. The Republicans are sneaky and divisive and the Democrats are inept. That's not the Democrats or the Republicans fault when you think about it, it's OUR fault for not holding our politicians to a higher standard.

Sorry, I just don't get the 'playing the game' viewpoint. Why should we have to watch some congregation of rich people and the corporate media play their little electoral games with each other? We're the ones who lose in the end. Until we start holding all politicians to a higher standard and requiring them to stick to their principles and stop pandering to whoever is going to get them the most votes, we're doomed to repeat the same mistakes.

I guess that makes me a pessimist, I don't know. I don't feel like I'm a pessimist, I just want people to question EVERYONE who gets up on the podium and not be satisfied with someone just because their party picked them.

To be honest, I think the real key to this whole thing is the media. The candidates for anything in politics are driven by media perception. If we start holding the media to a higher standard as well then we might actually make some progress.

I don't know, this was way too rambly and I didn't feel like re-reading or editing this post. Politics is frustrating.

[sgoodcore]

I agree the media has an influence that is poor at best. I mean CNN posted a "story" about how a McCain adviser didn't think highly of the DNC. Really? Wow, that's news?

As for the game, I'm talking about that in regards to the American people themselves. We as a people want to be coddled, not challenged. We want our politicians to be perfect people who never cuss or get excited. You can see that with the entire Dean wooping thing from four years ago. Its the American people's fault Obama needs a guy like Biden. People don't want a Washington insider but they want someone with experience. You can't have it both ways but that's what people want. So instead of Richardson and Obama you get Biden and Obama.

[riddle350]

Obama/Richardson would have fucking killed it in my opinion. I honestly don't know how he couldn't have won seeing as they'd have almost all of the black and latino vote.

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

heres the thing about the last two years... you can't change anything when you have a president who says he's going to veto everything passed that he doesn't agree with. if the house were more than the 54% democrats, or the senate more than 49% democrats, then maybe they could actually get that 2/3rd's vote to override a veto... they won't even take bills to the docket because they know Bush will veto it and that they won't have the numbers to override it.

You get a president in there who is willing to actually pass legislation that would benefit lower/middle class US citizens and I can bet you that you will see an increase in bills making it to the floor that actually matter.

[sgoodcore]

Obama/Richardson would have fucking killed it in my opinion. I honestly don't know how he couldn't have won seeing as they'd have almost all of the black and latino vote.

Do Catholic Latinos vote for pro-choice candidates?

[riddle350]

Obama/Richardson would have fucking killed it in my opinion. I honestly don't know how he couldn't have won seeing as they'd have almost all of the black and latino vote.

Do Catholic Latinos vote for pro-choice candidates?

No clue. Although it would have been an interesting thing to watch if McCain ended up going with a pro-choice VP. I wonder how that would have effected the situation.

[skanknsmile]

A prayer, why does there ALWAYS have to be a goddamn prayer. I don't care if you believe or not, but just please, keep it out of my politics. This whole campaign to make Barack Obama as a Christian in order to keep the bible breeders happy is just plain sick. How can you be scared religion! It's insane.

[riddle350]

what did everyone think of Hillary's speach?

I knew she was going to say the right thing but what shocked me was that for once she actually seemed sincere which she almost never does.

[andrew13]

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/08/26/dennis-kucinich-at-the-dnc-wake-up-america/

i less than 3 kucinich

[sherlock]

what did everyone think of Hillary's speach?

I knew she was going to say the right thing but what shocked me was that for once she actually seemed sincere which she almost never does.

it was a great speech. she has some pretty amazing speech-writers. there were more than a few quotable phrases/paragraphs and that's an accomplishment in any speech, much less one this important.

oh and @ baseball- i agree with pretty much everything you've said. i understand that politics exists underneath a veneer of bullshit, lies and greed. but for right now, in this election, that's the way it is. and a democrat in the white house, no matter how cynical you want to be, is better than a republican.

[andrew13]

baseball, dems in the house and senate couldn't get shit done because they didn't have the balls to stand up to bush. they'd been beaten down for 14 years and didn't know what it was like to be in charge. with a democrat in the white house and retaining both houses, they will get their agenda through. and it will go a long way towards unfucking america.

hillary had good speech, and this is coming from a person who hates her. so she did a hell of a job i think.

[riddle350]

I think the real test will be how Bill performs tomorrow night.

[adamlikesmusic]

I think the real test will be how Bill performs tomorrow night... In bed.

God I haven't had Chinese food in a while.

[adamlikesmusic]

As a side note, Clinton's "Sisterhood Of The Traveling Pantsuits" comment made me cringe. Way too cheesy.

[don]

Barr/Root 08

[Guest baseball]

Barr/Root 08

Really? I don't trust Barr at all. He's made some major ideological changes and really does not come off as genuine at all. I think he's only up there because he's got name recognition. If I was going to vote for a libertarian, I'd vote for Ron Paul before I'd vote for Barr.

*cue 10 people who've only read a couple paragraphs on dailykos about Ron Paul and don't actually understand anything about his ideologies attacking me, lol*

As is, McKinney (green party candidate, former elected Democrat) has been making the best statements and is talking about the right things.

[sgoodcore]

Is Ron Paul pro-life? I thought he was...

[lokithelion]

I don't know if you realize... but he's going to inherit a president in war position... I definitely want him to take Clinton's advisors seeing as how he's going to need "wartime" advisors.

as for Joe Biden... he's one of the poorest senators, he is one for the middle class worker, with one of the longest tenures and add the fact that he's from PA but resides in DE, he is going to help Obama win over rural PA where Clinton was dominant in. How is he a corporate lackey?

Drug Warrior? I guess then what he did as the Chairman of INCC is bad?

Are you familiar with those names who I posted originally from the Clinton administration? You realize they pushed some of the most violent policy of that administration? In a lot of people's opinions, they laid the ground work for the eventual policies in regards to Iraq. I think you really need to research those people before you defend them.

Look at Biden's work in regard to bankruptcy in 2005 in connection with the company his son worked for. Yes, corporate lackey, his words are hollow.

Are you kidding me? What he did with the INCC was not just bad, it was catostrophically bad. His drug warrior legislation is a HUGE part of the problems the lower/lower middle class in this country has been having the past 20+ years. His anti-drug work in 1986 has proved to be extremely damaging. The drug czar is one of the most corrupt public officials in existence. He's directly facilitated the prison industrial complex in this country. He's passed multitudes of racist drug policy. Joe Biden has done MASSIVE damage to the lower classes in the USA. His appointment makes Obama a complete joke.

Everyone in congress Dem and Republican sold us out on the bankruptcy bill. If thats why you're voting against him make sure you dont vote for McCain either.

[lokithelion]

Barr/Root 08

Really? I don't trust Barr at all. He's made some major ideological changes and really does not come off as genuine at all. I think he's only up there because he's got name recognition. If I was going to vote for a libertarian, I'd vote for Ron Paul before I'd vote for Barr.

*cue 10 people who've only read a couple paragraphs on dailykos about Ron Paul and don't actually understand anything about his ideologies attacking me, lol*

As is, McKinney (green party candidate, former elected Democrat) has been making the best statements and is talking about the right things.

I know all about Ron Paul. Watched the man speak numerous times and told his supporters to get off my lawn just as many. The dude has a handful of good ideas, but sadly America isn't ever going to go back to being an isolationist nation. Also Paul believes vaccines cause Autism.