Heavens - Patent Pending LP up for pre-order now.

[Guest scriptedrain]

you can't reason with peoples opinions.

you like it.

i dont.

end of story.

fair enough. it just blows my mind how irrational people are being.

Read Scott's timeline... actually read it. It blows my mind how you don't understand why we're upset.

[skumbucket]

i never said anywhere i hate the album. i quite like the album, aside from a couple of the early songs. and i AM excited to have it on vinyl. but i also like paying a reasonable price for things, and given the price that i paid this doesn't meet my expectations.

[xforlifex]

fair enough. it just blows my mind how irrational people are being.

I don't know where he pressed the record, but Pirates Press currently offers a quote of $2200 for 1000 LPs (virgin vinyl/full sleeves), so one would think he paid less since the product is of a lesser quality (we'll just say $2000 flat).

Suprisingly enough Pirates press is one of the cheapest places to press a record. If I remember the test press label it was pressed at Erica, which is not only one of the worst to deal with but also one of the most expensive. I bet he payed around 2700 for the vinyl, just a guess.

[flood]

its an electronic rock record... yeah that not a single electronic rock fan bought. dude everyone who bought that record was an alkaline trio fan. much like no hip hop kids are picking up the big d - porch life record. lets not be kidding ourselves.

[xunspokenliesx]

That and when you look at the fact that No Idea and Fat sell LPs for under 10 bucks, on colored vinyl, with full picture sleeves, and inserts, it just shows how this guy ripped off everyone who purchased one of these things...that's what gets me...

[mickeydalez]

fair enough. it just blows my mind how irrational people are being.

Since you never responded to this post in the other Heavens thread, maybe you will here:

Let's do a timeline on this entire process.

• 
  [*:p5gpxipl]July 20 - preorders go up through the Number Nine Sounds myspace page (which no longer exists) for $15.99ppd, with promises of the record being "limited to 1000" and "hand-numbered." A release date of Aug. 21 is set by the label. After payment is made by myself and many other people, ZERO COMMUNICATION is received from N9S/Joe Steinbrick. No order confirmation, no receipt, no anything.
  [*:p5gpxipl]August 21 - no records.
  [*:p5gpxipl]August 24 - jhulud emails N9S asking where the records are; N9S says the record will be delayed a few weeks due to an error at the pressing plant.
  [*:p5gpxipl]September 7 - Still no records. N9S deletes the original blog entry about the release of the record and simply posts that the records will be delayed three more weeks. At this point, it is impossible to get a refund via Paypal for anyone who ordered right when the record was made available, as that has to happen within 45 days of the transaction.
  [*:p5gpxipl]September 14 - Joe sends out a bulletin on the N9S account and says he's going to delete the N9S MySpace page, but not before telling everyone he's "hoping" for an Oct. 1 ship date and saying "this is your last chance to ask questions through this page." He also posts the rejected Heavens test pressings on eBay at this time.
  [*:p5gpxipl]September 16 - N9S MySpace is deleted, thereby making it impossible to ask him any questions.
  [*:p5gpxipl]September 18 - the test presses sell for close to $200 total. Still, no one has their records.
  [*:p5gpxipl]October 29 - nearly six weeks after his last communication, Joe posts something on the Heavens myspace blog apologizing for the delay. He also says that he will receive the records on Nov. 2 and begin shipping immediately.
  [*:p5gpxipl]November 1 - Joe confirms he has the records and will start shipping them at a rate of "100 per day" after numbering and stickering them all (keep in mind, this is the first mention of a "sticker" anywhere, and up to this point there has been zero discussion of the record's packaging).
  [*:p5gpxipl]November 2 - Joe launches a bullshit contest to get people to promote the record's release instead of packaging them up and mailing them out.
  [*:p5gpxipl]November 6 - Virgil is able to obtain 100 copies of the record from Joe and sells them for a CHEAPER PRICE. Of course, those of us who faithfully pre-ordered get fucked. Also, still no records.
  [*:p5gpxipl]November 16 - It's discovered that Joe is selling two more test presses on eBay (which he makes another $100 from). Still no records.
  [*:p5gpxipl]November 19 - Virgil says Joe has promised him 100 more copies of the album. Still no records.
  [*:p5gpxipl]November 24 - FINALLY, someone receives their record (kyle), over four months after pre-ordering with virtually no public communication from the seller in between (and zero seller-to-buyer communication, either). This is the first time anyone hears about the minimal packaging.
  [*:p5gpxipl]November 28 - Joe calls Virgil and tells him that he is just now shipping the 200 copies Virgil has already sold on his behalf, even though Joe has had them in hand for nearly a month; Virgil won't be able to start shipping them until approximately next Monday when they arrive. This makes Virgil/Vinyl Collective look like an unreputable company, as he's already taken money from 200 people but has no product to sell them.
  

Joe himself admitted he had sold 500 of the 1000 copies in his Oct. 29 update, meaning he had pulled in approximately $8000 from orders (more if they were international). I'll assume Virgil paid $7 wholesale per copy, meaning Joe's made another $1400 off those. Factor in the $300 he's made off test pressings, and he's pocketed almost $9000 BEFORE EVER SENDING A RECORD OUT. The total is most likely larger, given as how we don't know how many he's sold between Oct. 29 and now through the Heavens myspace (and it's possible Virgil paid more wholesale, too).

I don't know where he pressed the record, but Pirates Press currently offers a quote of $2200 for 1000 LPs (virgin vinyl/full sleeves), so one would think he paid less since the product is of a lesser quality (we'll just say $2000 flat). Obviously "packaging" costs were minimal (what's a box Sharpies cost nowadays, $3.29?) and considering how few people have received their records thus far, I bet he's shipping Media Mail, meaning if all 500 copies he sold himself thus far are being shipped in the U.S., that's only $1500 (I don't know how much packing material costs, unfortunately; I always just use recycled mailers when I send stuff out).

So based on my numbers, he's looking at $3500-4000 in expenses, and a MINIMUM of $9000 pulled in, most likely more.

In closing, FTG (Fuck This Guy). If you don't think those of us who paid for this record, especially early on in the process, have reason to be upset, then I don't know how else to convince you.

ohhh, and he also took down the blog off the heavens site...i feel bad for matt skiba, i dont know how he got tangled in this mess

[dietrootbeer]

fair enough. it just blows my mind how irrational people are being.

Since you never responded to this post in the other Heavens thread, maybe you will here:

Let's do a timeline on this entire process.

• 
  [*:l8pvvgt5]July 20 - preorders go up through the Number Nine Sounds myspace page (which no longer exists) for $15.99ppd, with promises of the record being "limited to 1000" and "hand-numbered." A release date of Aug. 21 is set by the label. After payment is made by myself and many other people, ZERO COMMUNICATION is received from N9S/Joe Steinbrick. No order confirmation, no receipt, no anything.
  [*:l8pvvgt5]August 21 - no records.
  [*:l8pvvgt5]August 24 - jhulud emails N9S asking where the records are; N9S says the record will be delayed a few weeks due to an error at the pressing plant.
  [*:l8pvvgt5]September 7 - Still no records. N9S deletes the original blog entry about the release of the record and simply posts that the records will be delayed three more weeks. At this point, it is impossible to get a refund via Paypal for anyone who ordered right when the record was made available, as that has to happen within 45 days of the transaction.
  [*:l8pvvgt5]September 14 - Joe sends out a bulletin on the N9S account and says he's going to delete the N9S MySpace page, but not before telling everyone he's "hoping" for an Oct. 1 ship date and saying "this is your last chance to ask questions through this page." He also posts the rejected Heavens test pressings on eBay at this time.
  [*:l8pvvgt5]September 16 - N9S MySpace is deleted, thereby making it impossible to ask him any questions.
  [*:l8pvvgt5]September 18 - the test presses sell for close to $200 total. Still, no one has their records.
  [*:l8pvvgt5]October 29 - nearly six weeks after his last communication, Joe posts something on the Heavens myspace blog apologizing for the delay. He also says that he will receive the records on Nov. 2 and begin shipping immediately.
  [*:l8pvvgt5]November 1 - Joe confirms he has the records and will start shipping them at a rate of "100 per day" after numbering and stickering them all (keep in mind, this is the first mention of a "sticker" anywhere, and up to this point there has been zero discussion of the record's packaging).
  [*:l8pvvgt5]November 2 - Joe launches a bullshit contest to get people to promote the record's release instead of packaging them up and mailing them out.
  [*:l8pvvgt5]November 6 - Virgil is able to obtain 100 copies of the record from Joe and sells them for a CHEAPER PRICE. Of course, those of us who faithfully pre-ordered get fucked. Also, still no records.
  [*:l8pvvgt5]November 16 - It's discovered that Joe is selling two more test presses on eBay (which he makes another $100 from). Still no records.
  [*:l8pvvgt5]November 19 - Virgil says Joe has promised him 100 more copies of the album. Still no records.
  [*:l8pvvgt5]November 24 - FINALLY, someone receives their record (kyle), over four months after pre-ordering with virtually no public communication from the seller in between (and zero seller-to-buyer communication, either). This is the first time anyone hears about the minimal packaging.
  [*:l8pvvgt5]November 28 - Joe calls Virgil and tells him that he is just now shipping the 200 copies Virgil has already sold on his behalf, even though Joe has had them in hand for nearly a month; Virgil won't be able to start shipping them until approximately next Monday when they arrive. This makes Virgil/Vinyl Collective look like an unreputable company, as he's already taken money from 200 people but has no product to sell them.
  

Joe himself admitted he had sold 500 of the 1000 copies in his Oct. 29 update, meaning he had pulled in approximately $8000 from orders (more if they were international). I'll assume Virgil paid $7 wholesale per copy, meaning Joe's made another $1400 off those. Factor in the $300 he's made off test pressings, and he's pocketed almost $9000 BEFORE EVER SENDING A RECORD OUT. The total is most likely larger, given as how we don't know how many he's sold between Oct. 29 and now through the Heavens myspace (and it's possible Virgil paid more wholesale, too).

I don't know where he pressed the record, but Pirates Press currently offers a quote of $2200 for 1000 LPs (virgin vinyl/full sleeves), so one would think he paid less since the product is of a lesser quality (we'll just say $2000 flat). Obviously "packaging" costs were minimal (what's a box Sharpies cost nowadays, $3.29?) and considering how few people have received their records thus far, I bet he's shipping Media Mail, meaning if all 500 copies he sold himself thus far are being shipped in the U.S., that's only $1500 (I don't know how much packing material costs, unfortunately; I always just use recycled mailers when I send stuff out).

So based on my numbers, he's looking at $3500-4000 in expenses, and a MINIMUM of $9000 pulled in, most likely more.

In closing, FTG (Fuck This Guy). If you don't think those of us who paid for this record, especially early on in the process, have reason to be upset, then I don't know how else to convince you.

ok im responding to this right now, its gonna take me a minute though..

[dietrootbeer]

July 20 - preorders go up through the Number Nine Sounds myspace page (which no longer exists) for $15.99ppd, with promises of the record being "limited to 1000" and "hand-numbered." A release date of Aug. 21 is set by the label. After payment is made by myself and many other people, ZERO COMMUNICATION is received from N9S/Joe Steinbrick. No order confirmation, no receipt, no anything.

- I ordered mine on the 21st, and I have a “communication”. If you paid with paypal then you got a receipt. EXHIBIT A (my receipt):

- The fact that he promised it to limited to whatever and hand numbered is completely irrelevant. If that was the only reason you ordered it then I hope yours gets lost in the mail. And so he gave an estimate of a release date which got pushed back. IT HAPPENS!

August 21 - no records

- and theres a legitimate reason why which he informed us of. There was a pressing plant error that was out of his hands. Which again DOES HAPPEN.

August 24 - jhulud emails N9S asking where the records are; N9S says the record will be delayed a few weeks due to an error at the pressing plant.

- ok…

September 7 - Still no records. N9S deletes the original blog entry about the release of the record and simply posts that the records will be delayed three more weeks. At this point, it is impossible to get a refund via Paypal for anyone who ordered right when the record was made available, as that has to happen within 45 days of the transaction.

- I don’t get why this is a bad thing? So he said they were delayed… and probably didn’t want to take any more orders till he knew what was happening. have some patience! Why do you need a refund just because shit went down he had no control over.

September 14 - Joe sends out a bulletin on the N9S account and says he's going to delete the N9S MySpace page, but not before telling everyone he's "hoping" for an Oct. 1 ship date and saying "this is your last chance to ask questions through this page." He also posts the rejected Heavens test pressings on eBay at this time.

- I remember this and its irrelevant as well. There were these things called web sites before myspace was around… well yah his label has one. And he gave a reason for deleting it. Why does he need 2 web sites. He said it was just too much to have to update both sites (and yes I realize he hasn’t updated the blog since sept but that doesn’t make any difference). MAKES SENSE. Not to mention there is a Heavens myspace where you can reach him. I give you EXHIBITS B:

And C

- And yah ok he sold a test press… how is that relivent to you being mad about this at all?! Almost every label sells test pressings its not uncommon, but “oh wah he sold it before the records came out! Wah”. Oh well it happens, it honestly doesn’t make a difference. And the lp is now up for sale on the heavens myspace. That’s makes no difference either and in actuality makes more sense . EXHIBIT D:

September 16 - N9S MySpace is deleted, thereby making it impossible to ask him any questions.

- uuuuhhh again, he has a web site for the label and the heavens myspace (see above EXHIBITS B & C). And if you look where you sent your money (ie your paypal receipt “communication”) you can see his email address:

[email protected]

September 18 - the test presses sell for close to $200 total. Still, no one has their records.

- wah? Irrelevant.

October 29 - nearly six weeks after his last communication, Joe posts something on the Heavens myspace blog apologizing for the delay. He also says that he will receive the records on Nov. 2 and begin shipping immediately.

- it seems like half of these points you’ve made do not help your argument one bit. So they were delayed, oh well he let you know what was going on. He apologized and life goes on (well for most of us anyway…)

November 1 - Joe confirms he has the records and will start shipping them at a rate of "100 per day" after numbering and stickering them all (keep in mind, this is the first mention of a "sticker" anywhere, and up to this point there has been zero discussion of the record's packaging).

- umm again wah? He says hes gonna put the records together and ship them, sounds about right to me… usually how it works. And why should there be a discussion? Its not debatable… its his decision.

November 2 - Joe launches a bullshit contest to get people to promote the record's release instead of packaging them up and mailing them out.

- SO WHAT!!! The “bullshit” contest has nothing to do with him packaging the records. Do you really think it took him that long of a time to type up that contest and post a bulletin? Its called promotion, its how you get people aware of your release. But why would he want people to know about his release and buy it?!?! Well that’s just absurd now isn’t it! (sarcasm if you didn’t catch it). youre nit-picking and its laughable.

November 6 - Virgil is able to obtain 100 copies of the record from Joe and sells them for a CHEAPER PRICE. Of course, those of us who faithfully pre-ordered get fucked. Also, still no records.

- I ordered one from Virgil as well… and how did you (you say us which I assume would include me since I pre-ordered as well, but I didn’t get fucked so….) get fucked? 3-4$ is really that big of a deal to you? Come on now you’re really searching for reasons now. Why don’t you bitch to interpunk about how their stuff is always more expensive then anywhere else.

November 16 - It's discovered that Joe is selling two more test presses on eBay (which he makes another $100 from). Still no records.

- wah wah and wah. Ebay is awesome get into it. u mad because you didnt win.

November 19 - Virgil says Joe has promised him 100 more copies of the album. Still no records.

- that was nice of joe I think. All you people that got “fucked” should be psyched that you can get one from the almighty vinyl collective now.

November 24 - FINALLY, someone receives their record (kyle), over four months after pre-ordering with virtually no public communication from the seller in between (and zero seller-to-buyer communication, either). This is the first time anyone hears about the minimal packaging.

- 1. there was communication, we knew what was happening. 2.) four months is not that long. It was a PRE-ORDER. Ive waited longer to get a record (or haven’t got one at all i.e. Walk All Night record’s Cold world s/t 7”, stuff happens(… and life goes on) 3.) the minimal packaging in my opinion Is fine. It looks nice, its simple and well the record will sound the same either way. And like I said its his decision, not yours.

November 28 - Joe calls Virgil and tells him that he is just now shipping the 200 copies Virgil has already sold on his behalf, even though Joe has had them in hand for nearly a month; Virgil won't be able to start shipping them until approximately next Monday when they arrive. This makes Virgil/Vinyl Collective look like an unreputable company, as he's already taken money from 200 people but has no product to sell them.

- youre looking into this way too much, ive been waiting longer for virgil to ship me my dashboard pre-order… im not bitching and emailing vc every day freaking out. Its being taken care of, I know this. Vc ‘s reputation is fine and god knows VC can do no wrong in everyone on this boards eyes anyway. Virgil lets everyone know whats going on, legit dude. His reputation is fine and we all know when his heavens lps are shipping.

[dietrootbeer]

well thats long.. and theres more...

[dietrootbeer]

well i was gonna respond to those last three paragraphs you wrote but theyre so dumb i dont feel like wasting my time. all im gonna say is every label that puts out vinyl makes a profit on it. it would make no sense (in most cases) to do it if they wouldnt make any money. the key word in your last little tid-bit was "assume assume assume". you really know nothing about the expenses he had from doing this album.

and to top it all off... i still havent even recieved mine yet! but im rational so ill just be patient and wait for it to arrive in all its dj sleeve glory.

[scottheisel]

What I don't understand is your insistence on defending the guy. Like, I've explained the situation to people who have no interest in the band or record but still think it's fucked up -- I think most anyone would think this situation has been handled poorly on Joe's behalf. But why are you so determined to keep his name clean?

[dietrootbeer]

What I don't understand is your insistence on defending the guy. Like, I've explained the situation to people who have no interest in the band or record but still think it's fucked up -- I think most anyone would think this situation has been handled poorly on Joe's behalf. But why are you so determined to keep his name clean?

because secretly i am in cahoots with josiah! and hes giving me a cut of the profits (im retiring early) and we need to keep his name clear so we can clean up again when the next Heaven$ lp drops!

[sgoodcore]

At the very least admit he's raping people on the price. I mean, fuck, $15.99 for media mail and a white sleeve? You're right packaging doesn't affect the music but I'm paying for it so I expect something half way decent no half-assed. On that alone people have a legit gripe.

[dietrootbeer]

At the very least admit he's raping people on the price. I mean, fuck, $15.99 for media mail and a white sleeve? You're right packaging doesn't affect the music but I'm paying for it so I expect something half way decent no half-assed. On that alone people have a legit gripe.

to be fair ill give you that. but look at it this way. say you buy a record from anywhere, chances are youre not going to pay less than $4-$5 for shipping (even if they do send it media mail, dont forget packaging materials, labor etc..) . that considered the record only cost you $11 -$12.. thats not that bad of a price. if you REALLY wanted some extravagent packaging then yeah for that reason i could see why youre a LITTLE mad, but like i mentioned its his call. if thats what he wanted then thats what goes. id be lieing if i said i didnt have a record or 10 with artwork i absolutely thought was repulsive.. but i think this looks nice so my opinion is biased... it is what it is.

[Guest scriptedrain]

I hope you never run a business.

[sgoodcore]

At the very least admit he's raping people on the price. I mean, fuck, $15.99 for media mail and a white sleeve? You're right packaging doesn't affect the music but I'm paying for it so I expect something half way decent no half-assed. On that alone people have a legit gripe.

to be fair ill give you that. but look at it this way. say you buy a record from anywhere, chances are youre not going to pay less than $4-$5 for shipping (even if they do send it media mail, dont forget packaging materials, labor etc..) . that considered the record only cost you $11 -$12.. thats not that bad of a price. if you REALLY wanted some extravagent packaging then yeah for that reason i could see why youre a LITTLE mad, but like i mentioned its his call. if thats what he wanted then thats what goes. id be lieing if i said i didnt have a record or 10 with artwork i absolutely thought was repulsive.. but i think this looks nice so my opinion is biased... it is what it is.

Sure but he also lied and mislead people repeatedly. And honestly 11-12 for an LP isn't a bad price but its not a good one either.

Dude was all out to make money and it shows, that's why people are upset. Sure, everything taken individually isn't so bad. However, each thing he did wrong relates to another.

[cadetapplesauce]

some hip hop/rap SINGLES sell for $10+ new and they only come in a DJ sleeve and a sticker... just sayin'.. haha.

[sgoodcore]

some hip hop/rap SINGLES sell for $10+ new and they only come in a DJ sleeve and a sticker... just sayin'.. haha.

Doesn't make it right though, we all know that's a horrendous price for an LP.

[lechevre]

I think the thing that gets me the most is the fact that everyone who says they have emailed him have gotten the EXACT message back. That's just lame.

[googlemyass]

guys, really, lets not get in a big argument over it, we're all on the same side. josiah is a DOUCHE bag. bottom line, if you dont like him or the way he runs his shit, then never order from him again. I like most all of you feel this way, he fucked people over and is a piece of shit at running his "label". But lets not get worked up over it at each other. love brothers, love!

[Guest vito]

ok so my copy (73/1000), just showed up. all i can say is that at least it's heavy and feels like a good quality record so at least he didn't cheap out on that. anyway, i got my copy, i'm still not pleased about $20 i dropped for it considering everything but the sleeve doesn't look horrible and now i don't have to keep wondering about it.

[meltothecore]

I got mine in the mail the yesterday. Im happy now.

[ryanwood]

people are bitching so much about this. i still havent gotten mine, its not really that big of a deal. ive waited longer for stuff, and it really doesnt bother me

[skumbucket]

still waiting, and i'm quite certain i got in on the purchasing pretty damn early.

[Guest vito]

still waiting, and i'm quite certain i got in on the purchasing pretty damn early.

i purchased on july 20th.