pjaicomo Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 And the common sense argument? Are you kidding me sammy? Dude, half the world thinks it's common sense that Gays can't get married. More than that thinks it's common sense that abortion should be illegal, including the morning after pill. If you want to believe in freedom, and fight for it, you have to fight for the freedom of the people you hate as well. That's what frustrates me more than anything these days, people acting as if some speech should be freeier than others while talking about oppression. I don't agree with these pricks, but their kid should get his cake, no matter how stupid i think it is. No people don't believe its common sense, they believe it cause some magic man in the sky who supposedly wrote a book said so. That's not common sense. How doesn't that make sense? On another note, free speech isn't really at issue here. The people (private actor) are dumbshits who named their kids stupid racist names. The company (private actor) chose to not make the Hitler cake. As long as the government isn't prohibiting the making of Hitler cakes, we are all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcm1610 Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 No people don't believe its common sense, they believe it cause some magic man in the sky who supposedly wrote a book said so. That's not common sense. How doesn't that make sense? On another note, free speech isn't really at issue here. The people (private actor) are dumbshits who named their kids stupid racist names. The company (private actor) chose to not make the Hitler cake. As long as the government isn't prohibiting the making of Hitler cakes, we are all good. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtw88 Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 The "creation" of Israel is one of the most fucked up things that everyone chooses to ignore for political reasons and/or fear of being labeled "anti-semitic". Give Palestine back to the Palestinians and be done with it. I don't really agree with give it to the Palestinians. I don't really have a solution. But I do agree with the creation of Israel being fucked up and wrongly ignored. I can't believe that people are willing to sacrifice themselves, their children, and grandchildren (both sides) in order to appease the ramblings of novels. I boggles my mind that anyone at all would think that a piece of land is what matters at all in religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brennan Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 that's a terrible reason to refuse service. if they're gonna refuse service to people with certain names why not refuse service to people of certain skin colors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hickey Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 that's a terrible reason to refuse service. if they're gonna refuse service to people with certain names why not refuse service to people of certain skin colors? Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxmartinxx Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 that's a terrible reason to refuse service. if they're gonna refuse service to people with certain names why not refuse service to people of certain skin colors? Because a skin color has never killed nine million people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxmartinxx Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 The "creation" of Israel is one of the most fucked up things that everyone chooses to ignore for political reasons and/or fear of being labeled "anti-semitic". Give Palestine back to the Palestinians and be done with it. I don't really agree with give it to the Palestinians. I don't really have a solution. But I do agree with the creation of Israel being fucked up and wrongly ignored. I can't believe that people are willing to sacrifice themselves, their children, and grandchildren (both sides) in order to appease the ramblings of novels. I boggles my mind that anyone at all would think that a piece of land is what matters at all in religion. Even if you take religion out of the equation, Palestinians still have a reason to be pissed off. They were driven out of their homes and forced to live as second class citizens for sins they didn't commit. And not hundreds of years ago. 50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjaicomo Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 that's a terrible reason to refuse service. if they're gonna refuse service to people with certain names why not refuse service to people of certain skin colors? They should be able to do that too if they are that fucking stupid/racist. It's their business. If you don't like it, don't shop there. But then you have to go to Wal Mart (which is fine by me). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgoodcore Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 I don't really agree with give it to the Palestinians. I don't really have a solution. But I do agree with the creation of Israel being fucked up and wrongly ignored. I can't believe that people are willing to sacrifice themselves, their children, and grandchildren (both sides) in order to appease the ramblings of novels. I boggles my mind that anyone at all would think that a piece of land is what matters at all in religion. Even if you take religion out of the equation, Palestinians still have a reason to be pissed off. They were driven out of their homes and forced to live as second class citizens for sins they didn't commit. And not hundreds of years ago. 50. They do have a right to be pissed. But you can't make a right by doing two wrongs. You can't give it back now, its too late. That shipped has sailed. Now the two groups need to get their shit straight and live peacefully. Israel isn't going away but neither are the people who lived there before. You can't call throwing one group out okay but throwing another group out atrocious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hickey Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 that's a terrible reason to refuse service. if they're gonna refuse service to people with certain names why not refuse service to people of certain skin colors? Because a skin color has never killed nine million people. No, it hasn't. But neither has a small child with the name Adolf Hitler. And while I'm sure the kid's parents are absolute assholes, I doubt they've killed 9 million people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgoodcore Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Because a skin color has never killed nine million people. No, it hasn't. But neither has a small child with the name Adolf Hitler. And while I'm sure the kid's parents are absolute assholes, I doubt they've killed 9 million people. But they're happy about it. What else would explain them wanting a child named after one of the most hateful people who ever lived? And at three, the child is only happy with some cake. They don't know their name in writing so it has no affect on the child. This is solely a thing for the parents. They shouldn't act like they didn't know naming their child Adolf Hitler wasn't going to cause a reaction. I wouldn't walk around with a name like, say, Fuck Jesus and think I'd be all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjaicomo Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 How did we get to Palestine? Here is my take: It's a zero sum game. No concession will make the other side happy. Let them fight it out. God can choose who's right (my money is on YHWH btw based on past experience). My parenthetical isn't a hope of anything. If you are so fucking dumb you think there is some blessed land and you are willing to kill or die for it, then I guess you have to kill or die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgoodcore Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 How did we get to Palestine?Here is my take: It's a zero sum game. No concession will make the other side happy. Let them fight it out. God can choose who's right (my money is on YHWH btw based on past experience). My parenthetical isn't a hope of anything. If you are so fucking dumb you think there is some blessed land and you are willing to kill or die for it, then I guess you have to kill or die. Eh, for some its about a blessed land but for most its about a homeland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjaicomo Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 How did we get to Palestine?Here is my take: It's a zero sum game. No concession will make the other side happy. Let them fight it out. God can choose who's right (my money is on YHWH btw based on past experience). My parenthetical isn't a hope of anything. If you are so fucking dumb you think there is some blessed land and you are willing to kill or die for it, then I guess you have to kill or die. Eh, for some its about a blessed land but for most its about a homeland. Your point being? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgoodcore Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Eh, for some its about a blessed land but for most its about a homeland. Your point being? Its not about religion for everyone, for most even. You either get it or you don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjaicomo Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 What's it about? If you want to live in a place full of crazy assholes who will try to kill you, you are going to have to kill or die. So the homeland argument is going to throw the Jews out or keep them there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxmartinxx Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Even if you take religion out of the equation, Palestinians still have a reason to be pissed off. They were driven out of their homes and forced to live as second class citizens for sins they didn't commit. And not hundreds of years ago. 50. They do have a right to be pissed. But you can't make a right by doing two wrongs. You can't give it back now, its too late. That shipped has sailed. Now the two groups need to get their shit straight and live peacefully. Israel isn't going away but neither are the people who lived there before. You can't call throwing one group out okay but throwing another group out atrocious. What is the second wrong? Wouldn't the first wrong be Hitler being and asshole and killing a bunch of people. The second wrong was some of those like people deciding they had to create their own nation, regardless that it was inhabited by someone else. Just because some Jewish people lived in the area 2000 years ago doesn't mean they can "take back" that land now when they haven't lived there in hundreds of years. Again, Israel has only existed for 50 some odd years. It's not "too late" for them to leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtw88 Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 No, it hasn't. But neither has a small child with the name Adolf Hitler. And while I'm sure the kid's parents are absolute assholes, I doubt they've killed 9 million people. But they're happy about it. What else would explain them wanting a child named after one of the most hateful people who ever lived? And at three, the child is only happy with some cake. They don't know their name in writing so it has no affect on the child. This is solely a thing for the parents. They shouldn't act like they didn't know naming their child Adolf Hitler wasn't going to cause a reaction. I wouldn't walk around with a name like, say, Fuck Jesus and think I'd be all good. Exactly. The point of freedom of speech is that you have the right to name your kid whatever you like, like Adolph Hitler, without repercussion from the government. Freedom of speech does not, however, give you the right to be a huge asshole and hide behind the first amendment to avoid consequence. If you name your kid Hitler then you know exactly what you have coming to you, and unfortunately your innocent kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgoodcore Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 They do have a right to be pissed. But you can't make a right by doing two wrongs. You can't give it back now, its too late. That shipped has sailed. Now the two groups need to get their shit straight and live peacefully. Israel isn't going away but neither are the people who lived there before. You can't call throwing one group out okay but throwing another group out atrocious. What is the second wrong? Wouldn't the first wrong be Hitler being and asshole and killing a bunch of people. The second wrong was some of those like people deciding they had to create their own nation, regardless that it was inhabited by someone else. Just because some Jewish people lived in the area 2000 years ago doesn't mean they can "take back" that land now when they haven't lived there in hundreds of years. Again, Israel has only existed for 50 some odd years. It's not "too late" for them to leave. You're pissed people were "ousted" by other people so you want to oust these other people? That's the two wrongs. If that's the "solution" you're going to fail because that's not going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjaicomo Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Just because some Jewish people lived in the area 2000 years ago doesn't mean they can "take back" that land now when they haven't lived there in hundreds of years. Again, Israel has only existed for 50 some odd years. It's not "too late" for them to leave. Yessir. That is the giant whole in this fucking nonsense about homelands. What is a homeland? How long ago did your family have to live there? Did you even have to see the fucking place in your life time? How long did you family have to live there? Stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxmartinxx Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 How did we get to Palestine?Here is my take: It's a zero sum game. No concession will make the other side happy. Let them fight it out. God can choose who's right (my money is on YHWH btw based on past experience). Clearly it's going to be the one who has the backing of the UN, financial backing of the US, and has an organized military. That isn't the Palestinians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjaicomo Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 I would point out Godwin's Law, but I guess we started with talking about Hitler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjaicomo Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 How did we get to Palestine?Here is my take: It's a zero sum game. No concession will make the other side happy. Let them fight it out. God can choose who's right (my money is on YHWH btw based on past experience). Clearly it's going to be the one who has the backing of the UN, financial backing of the US, and has an organized military. That isn't the Palestinians. Too bad for them huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxmartinxx Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 What is the second wrong? Wouldn't the first wrong be Hitler being and asshole and killing a bunch of people. The second wrong was some of those like people deciding they had to create their own nation, regardless that it was inhabited by someone else. Just because some Jewish people lived in the area 2000 years ago doesn't mean they can "take back" that land now when they haven't lived there in hundreds of years. Again, Israel has only existed for 50 some odd years. It's not "too late" for them to leave. You're pissed people were "ousted" by other people so you want to oust these other people? That's the two wrongs. If that's the "solution" you're going to fail because that's not going to happen. They have no right to be there. Let's say that some people walked into my house this evening, overtook my home by violence, and forced my wife and I out. You're saying that if I called the cops and they forcefully removed them from their "new home", that would be somehow wrong. Clearly, it's not. And the length of time they would be in my home would not change the fact that their violent occupation of my home is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjaicomo Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 And the length of time they would be in my home would not change the fact that their violent occupation of my home is wrong. Point taken, but acquisition by capture and adverse possession say different - just a fun fact. Your analogy is good though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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