god and jesus

[hickey]

So, how did all of you who don't believe in God/Jesus spend the day yesterday? I would hope you didn't accept gifts on a day that celebrates something you don't believe in.

Do you spend Memorial Day memorializing all the fallen soldiers? Or Martin Luther King Day reciting the "I Have A Dream" speech? No. You take it as a day off and enjoy the people you're around. Christmas has virtually no religious connotations anymore unless you purposely choose to directly apply some.

Not true, considering this thread started with Kyle being dragged to church (a religious connotation if there ever was one). And no, I don't recite MLK Jr.'s speeches on that day, but I don't exchange gifts on that day either and I don't pretend to understand how important that day may be for the people MLK Jr. really impacted.

[kyle]

Hickey, I see what point you're trying to make, although I think it is a bit weak. These days, Christmas is very secularized, what with Christmas trees, Santa Claus, and elves. One does not need to be a Christian to celebrate it these days. Hanging out with your family and getting a few gifts is not an act of celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ, its spending time with your family and getting shit.

[hickey]

Hickey, I see what point you're trying to make, although I think it is a bit weak. These days, Christmas is very secularized, what with Christmas trees, Santa Claus, and elves. One does not need to be a Christian to celebrate it these days. Hanging out with your family and getting a few gifts is not an act of celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ, its spending time with your family and getting shit.

I'm just making a point. I am Catholic, born and raised. However, the last time I was in a church was for my wedding and before that I have no idea how many years it was. And while the idea of Christmas may have become something other than what it was intended, I would expect that people who are truly anti-religion, anti-christian and lack any belief that there is a God or was a Jesus would decide not to partake.

[scottheisel]

Hickey, I see what point you're trying to make, although I think it is a bit weak. These days, Christmas is very secularized, what with Christmas trees, Santa Claus, and elves. One does not need to be a Christian to celebrate it these days. Hanging out with your family and getting a few gifts is not an act of celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ, its spending time with your family and getting shit.

I'm just making a point. I am Catholic, born and raised. However, the last time I was in a church was for my wedding and before that I have no idea how many years it was. And while the idea of Christmas may have become something other than what it was intended, I would expect that people who are truly anti-religion, anti-christian and lack any believe that there is a God or was a Jesus would decide not to partake.

But if someone were truly anti-religion or anti-Jesus or whatever, isn't it possible they would feel like they would be subverting Christianity by using the holiday simply to get presents and eat a bunch of cookies?

You're drawing a pretty thick line here, saying either someone celebrates Christmas for its real reason (JC's birthday) or they're a hypocrite. You're not allowing for the fact that someone can come up with their own personal reasons for enjoying the day.

I consider myself politely agnostic. My parents asked if I would go to midnight services on Christmas Eve, and I declined, because I'm not very comfortable with organized religion in general. But I still woke up 8 hours later, had some hot chocolate and unwrapped some presents, because to me, Christmas symbolizes spending time with my family and appreciating their thoughtfulness in gift-giving.

[hickey]

I'm just making a point. I am Catholic, born and raised. However, the last time I was in a church was for my wedding and before that I have no idea how many years it was. And while the idea of Christmas may have become something other than what it was intended, I would expect that people who are truly anti-religion, anti-christian and lack any believe that there is a God or was a Jesus would decide not to partake.

But if someone were truly anti-religion or anti-Jesus or whatever, isn't it possible they would feel like they would be subverting Christianity by using the holiday simply to get presents and eat a bunch of cookies?

You're drawing a pretty thick line here, saying either someone celebrates Christmas for its real reason (JC's birthday) or they're a hypocrite. You're not allowing for the fact that someone can come up with their own personal reasons for enjoying the day.

I consider myself politely agnostic. My parents asked if I would go to midnight services on Christmas Eve, and I declined, because I'm not very comfortable with organized religion in general. But I still woke up 8 hours later, had some hot chocolate and unwrapped some presents, because to me, Christmas symbolizes spending time with my family and appreciating their thoughtfulness in gift-giving.

It's not a think line at all and in no way am I calling anyone a hypocrite. I am saying that someone who is so strong in their beliefs that they publicly denounce the catholic church (if they are true to what they believe in and not posing for the cameras) would not participate in Christmas because of its religious connotations.

[lokithelion]

My family was viciously attacked by a southern baptist church my father worked at because my dad didn't preach was they wanted to hear and my mom worked outside the home. The fuckers tried to get him fired and ruin his reputation, and in one case get him arrested for murder. We finally left thank god and this was all when I was a kid. My memories of the church are fucked, and while some of you might have had nuns yelling at you or telling you all sorts of wonderful annoying backwards shit very very few of you have ever had an institution of faith try and destroy your family.

Totally agree with the rest of what you said. This first part?

Memebers of the church tried to have him brought up on murder charges because he gave a member of their family CPR after he had a heart attack. If that sounds insane, it is.

They tried to have my mother fired from her job by starting rumors about her around our fair city that she cheated on her husband because she worked out of the house.

The slashed tires because of the "Gays aren't going to hell" sermon.

Trying to get my fathers seminary to take back his degrees.

Theres more... but yeah. I seriously doubt you've had a church threaten your physical and emotional well being. Unless you were touched by a priest or something. The point is the same. Bad experiences with the church are just that. Bad experiences with the church.

Regardless, sorry for being reactionary towards the first post.

[oakland]

That than which no greater can be conceived

[kyle]

But if someone were truly anti-religion or anti-Jesus or whatever, isn't it possible they would feel like they would be subverting Christianity by using the holiday simply to get presents and eat a bunch of cookies?

You're drawing a pretty thick line here, saying either someone celebrates Christmas for its real reason (JC's birthday) or they're a hypocrite. You're not allowing for the fact that someone can come up with their own personal reasons for enjoying the day.

I consider myself politely agnostic. My parents asked if I would go to midnight services on Christmas Eve, and I declined, because I'm not very comfortable with organized religion in general. But I still woke up 8 hours later, had some hot chocolate and unwrapped some presents, because to me, Christmas symbolizes spending time with my family and appreciating their thoughtfulness in gift-giving.

It's not a think line at all and in no way am I calling anyone a hypocrite. I am saying that someone who is so strong in their beliefs that they publicly denounce the catholic church (if they are true to what they believe in and not posing for the cameras) would not participate in Christmas because of its religious connotations.

I'm actually not very anti-Catholic, I have a much stronger distaste for born-again/evangelicals/Protestants whatever you want to call them. Sure, the Catholic Church is a massive institution and its easy to shake your fist at them (the same way McDonalds and Wal-Mart are easily attacked, they're the biggest, but other companies do the same thing). However, I believe that the things that come out of evangelical preachers is far more dangerous than a Catholic priest.

[rschoene]

Here is my two cents, believing in some kind of faith, spirituality or whatever is you want to call it is not the same as believing in something some fallible men wrote in some book. But I do look at things this way, what does Jesus (whether you believe in him or not) have in common with bands like Minor Threat, Trial, Battery or Ignite. They all want to make this world a better place for all mankind. My point is those who truly follow Jesus's teaching, by wanting to change the world for the better should be applauded and not brought down by others who feel just because they take communion and live a materialistic, self centered, inconsiderate, immoral lifestyle. So think about this when you want to put down religion, I know someone who has been to Darfur, Somalia, The Middle East because he is a Christian and want to help his fellow brothers, not to just give them communion. I just hate it because I get the message and people just fuck it up by applying their or their interpretation. Sorry for my babbling.

[kirbypuckett]

Christmas is because of religion? Was someone born on that day? Christmas is nothing but a commercial holiday now. Maybe people act a little friendlier because some dude with a sweet beard celebrates his birthday on said day.

To me Christmas is much more. I see it as a day where I get to see my very small family all getting along well.

Almost a decade ago my Mom asked me what I wanted for Christmas as she picked me up for work one day. I don't know what hit me, but my face filled with tears as I looked at her and said "To have the family back together."

She immediately began to cry and as soon as we got home she had the dusty old red phone book out dialing everyone up and asking them if they would show up at our house for Christmas Eve dinner in my honor.

You have no idea what that meant to me. To see my aunts, uncles, and smorgasboard of cousins all back together. Not to mention my divorced grandparents (whom are the most important people in my life) were sitting in the same room sharing a conversation without any yelling.

Christmas to me is reliving that moment and creating new ones.

Plus I get to help the economy, eat filet minion and get a ton of sweet stuff.

[mcm1610]

Studying history has shown the ways in which organized religion is used as a tool and the way religious beliefs have simply been an explanation of the unknown. It's a cop-out. Where'd we come from? Who knows.. must've been God I guess.

I have no problem with people who do believe. But I don't. If people try to convert me back (I was baptized Lutheran, then converted to Catholicism later, then as I got older dropped it all), I gladly debate them and explain why I don't believe, but I rarely initiate anything as I feel they're free to believe whatever they want.

As for Christmas... there's no reason to believe that even if Jesus is 100% real and truthful that he was born on Dec 25th, and the holiday has been extremely bastardized thanks to Coke and Hallmark and every other company that it's hard to say it's a truly religious day. Hell, I know Jews that celebrate Christmas for the family and gift-giving aspects only.

[311thrice]

I started to put my opinion on the matter but, there is no reason to argue over this. Someone is right, but we won't know until we die. What's the point in arguing? Really. It's stupid. Nothing is going to get accomplished. Nobody is going to change their views on religion b/c of this thread and it's obviously causing some drama. People believe what they believe. It doesn't concern anyone but themselves.

[devilstrombone]

You just do it when you're drunk and or bored? Yeah, and Mel Gibson only hates Jews after he's had a few to drink.

Look, I'm the only atheist in a Catholic family. I'm a former Catholic myself, having went to Catholic school for 12 years. I have no problem with Christians (that don't act like Bill O'Reilly) and I get along just fine with every Christian I know. I also don't ever criticise anyone's beliefs, ever. I was drunk and pissed I had to sit through an hour+ long service at 12:00AM last night, and that post was just a fucked up joke, not a serious statement.

I was pissed for the three hours wasted when my mom made me go with her to Titanic but I didnt bash everyone that liked that movie. I let them ridicule themselves when they openly admited to liking it.

[slymer]

Look, I'm the only atheist in a Catholic family. I'm a former Catholic myself, having went to Catholic school for 12 years. I have no problem with Christians (that don't act like Bill O'Reilly) and I get along just fine with every Christian I know. I also don't ever criticise anyone's beliefs, ever. I was drunk and pissed I had to sit through an hour+ long service at 12:00AM last night, and that post was just a fucked up joke, not a serious statement.

I was pissed for the three hours wasted when my mom made me go with her to Titanic but I didnt bash everyone that liked that movie. I let them ridicule themselves when they openly admited to liking it.

I liked that movie when I saw it in the theatre. Haven't seen it since though.

[devilstrombone]

I was pissed for the three hours wasted when my mom made me go with her to Titanic but I didnt bash everyone that liked that movie. I let them ridicule themselves when they openly admited to liking it.

I liked that movie when I saw it in the theatre. Haven't seen it since though.

I cant really talk, I liked pearl harbor when I saw it.

[desensitizedbyu]

best part of this whole thread is the ad.

get fucking ripped like the lord!!

[slymer]

Steinlager is delicious

[slymer]

I liked that movie when I saw it in the theatre. Haven't seen it since though.

I cant really talk, I liked pearl harbor when I saw it.

Me to, but it was so damn long

[hickey]

I read an article last night that apparently some scientists have proven that Jesus (if he did indeed exist) was not born on December 25th and was likely born during warmer months. I guess Christmas is indeed just for gifts. Boy is my face red.