North Korea

[SpinningBlackCircleofDeath]

[smash2pieces]

Why is it so hard for a country to build an intercontinental missile? I'm just curious. It just seems weird to me that they could have missiles and possibly nuclear weapons, but they cannot build missiles big enough to strike around the world? You'd think they would just be bigger versions of what they have already?

 

I guess that is a question not many could answer, though. If it was simple to build a missile it would be a problem.

 

From what I've heard/read, it has more to do with the fact that they can't build a nuclear warhead that's small enough to fit on an intercontinental missile. As far as China siding with them, I think that they back them more for the sake of themselves. Think about it: If North Korea collapsed, where would all of those citizens go? Not South Korea, so who's the other border? China. Anyway, it's late and I'd probably say more if it wasn't, but North Korea is really quite fascinating except for the fact that their citizens are basically held captive by the state...

[steventangent]

I doubt that China sees any benefit from another proxy war with the US on the Korean Peninsula. Despite having a treaty that says they will provide military aid to North Korea in the even they're attacked, they have held an official position of condemning missile tests and threats by North Korea for several years.

[hipsterasfolk]

Hypebeast we know about cha

 

Sincerely,

'Merica

[celebdeath]

Someone before said that China wouldn't do anything for fear of losing US business. Sorry folks, but its the other way round. China owns. Everything. All that US debt they purchased; they could call that in and ruin everything. China's not going to back a war started by NK though. Both Russia and China, who have vested interest in NK, have condemned this nonsense. HOWEVER, if push comes to shove, both countries are aligned with NK. The worry is if it started and got out of control (ie munitions land on Chinese and/or Russian territory)....

 

Agreed on the NK chest beating stuff. They have stepped it up on previous beats-of-chests in that they have shut off the telephone hotline between Seoul and Pyongyang, which they've never done before. Apparently they have missiles that'll reach Alaska and Hawaii. Whether they could actually LAND the bloody things there, is another thing altogether. Think if they set any of those off, they'll land in the south pacific ocean somehwere.

[steventangent]

Someone before said that China wouldn't do anything for fear of losing US business. Sorry folks, but its the other way round. China owns. Everything. All that US debt they purchased; they could call that in and ruin everything.

China is indeed the largest holder of US foreign debt, followed closely by Japan. Of course, roughly two thirds of the total debt is held by the government or private institutions in the United States. There seems to be this fear in this country that China just owns everything, like a great big developer that's buying up all the cool places in your neighborhood.

China does have something to fear by losing US business. Do you have any idea how they became one of the fastest growing economies in the entire world? 30 years of American consumerism and carefully managed fiscal policy. Keeping their currency less than the dollar means that it was cheaper for the United States to import goods made in China than to produce them here. While wages stagnated, people were still able to purchase kids' toys and a second TV for the bedroom because the price of those goods, made in China, fell to the point American families could afford them.

Holding American debt gives China political clout and allows them to strengthen their own economy. They don't have to go to war with the United States; they could fuck us altogether by dumping their debt and crashing the value of the dollar (which takes a hit every time China even THREATENS to do it). The problem is that it would trash their economy as well. China "owning" that chunk of our foreign debt also keeps interest rates lower. China holds US debt because it's good for them and they went our continued business.

China is the largest political ally of the DPRK by far, and does have a treaty with them pledging military support. But I doubt very much they will support North Korea in acts of aggression against other countries, especially ones that harm the US - a large importer of Chinese goods - by proxy.

China can't, and wouldn't, "call in their debt," in the same way the mob would if you owed them money. We didn't mortgage the Statue of Liberty to them, they can't just come to America and repo shit we bought on credit with them. And they're not going to sell off all their treasury bonds, either.

[homework]

[celebdeath]

There's much more to it than China owning yr debt. The 30 years you mentioned - that has allowed China to do what it is doing all over the world now; buying up primary resources and land; and sitting on them. They're swallowing up African resource belts, buying up our arable land down here, and i bet they'd be doing the same over your way. Yes, right now, its good business to keep everyone happy, and we're all relying on that. But what happens if and when they dont need us anymore?

We see it much more acutely down here, because China is far and away our biggest trading partner and when anytime anything happens negatively in China, we feel it immediately. We're so damn small that the smallest ripple causes a wave. Currently, they're not importing our coal and its hurting us bad. They were importing it by the multiple cargo-ship load and then dumping it off their coast, to save for l8rs. They are buying our land though. Quickly and in large swathes.

 

but this is all OT.

 

NK would be stupid as shit to start something now. But that still doesn't rule out that little twat doing it. The sons are always much worse than the fathers. Whilst the fathers had to work for it, the sons were born with a silver spoon, free reign and never needed to work for a thing (including an education).

[homework]

"The sons are always much worse than the fathers." Joaquin Phoenix » Gladiator

 

In all honesty, America never gives any fucks. Time after time, America will sell their souls to win no matter what is at stake. I say everybody back down, drink some Jack, and enjoy Sandra Bullock.

 

[thebiglebowski]

Yeah, no one considering the possibility of war as a calculated business decision. If two countries are ready to go to war, it doesn't really matter who owns paper debt of the others. You could make the argument that Germany's provocation of WWII was partially caused by the reparations Germany was forced to pay after WWI (reparations -> terrible poverty -> Nazi power -> WWII).

 

I guess if you used that analogy, the US would be Germany. Could we spiral so far into debt that we would rather start a war than pay it off?

 

I don't know. Not saying war is likely. What I do know is that it is caused by irrational thinking, not pen and paper business decisions. China is not our ally. They are constantly spying on us, stealing military technology, and continuing to build their military to rival ours. Hopefully nothing comes of it. They are not our friends, though.

[steventangent]

Nobody said China was an ally to the United States. They just have nothing to gain by backing DPRK in a war of aggression against South Korea, and by proxy, the United States.

[celebdeath]

http://youtu.be/0RlgyQ9EDCQ

 

at least their media is on the ball....

i hear the birds are yummy over your way

[steventangent]

I am indeed grateful to the government for my warm snow and Tuesday birds, as a poor, cold, lonely American homosexual.

That is humorous, until you remember that while it's just a propaganda piece and a caricature of life in America, we manage to suppress and ignore so much of the really awful side of life for a lot of people in this country.

Without changing the subject too much, I think the idea is ripe for parody - making a "propaganda" video that appears to be of another country, that turns out to be America.

[harryq]

I am indeed grateful to the government for my warm snow and Tuesday birds, as a poor, cold, lonely American homosexual.

That is humorous, until you remember that while it's just a propaganda piece and a caricature of life in America, we manage to suppress and ignore so much of the really awful side of life for a lot of people in this country.

Without changing the subject too much, I think the idea is ripe for parody - making a "propaganda" video that appears to be of another country, that turns out to be America.

 

I think it's ~funny that north korean news organizations lie about "life in america" while all the middle eastern countries seem to hate us for what we really are

[celebdeath]

that suppression is endemic. no-one wants to see the realities of life for so many of our populations. our media is just as guilty as NKs - we just get a different kind of propaganda. and in some respects, we get a more 'balanced' output, but i bracket that with the fact that those outputs are controlled by profit-making entities. ours are much more subtle in the lies. no news is balanced. the internet, back in the day, was showing potential there, but now big business owns it too.

 

 

I think it's ~funny that north korean news organizations lie about "life in america" while all the middle eastern countries seem to hate us for what we really are

 

its easy to hate from afar. what really bites the big one is when ppl that have emigrated to the country you live in, go on to hate said country, whilst simultaneously taking every advantage that country offers.

 

comes back to media, entities in responsible positions etc etc lying through their teeth to create hatred.

[homework]

I think it's ~funny that north korean news organizations lie about "life in america" while all the middle eastern countries seem to hate us for what we really are

 

That's generally everywhere. I wouldn't say North Korea is lying, but they may stretch the truth. America is heartless.

 

Here in Okinawa and while I was in Japan, us as Americans in their country; our every move is scrutinized. If a Marine rapes a local national, shit goes fucking worldwide and the effect and branding lasts for years to come. Being stationed here, restrictions are put forth solely to "prevent" anything minor from happening, because we would be in the spotlight. If anybody slips up in the slightest, no matter what the incident, it falls into the every sin is equal rule. I've seen local teenage kids rob a liquor store and hold the man at gun point; is that on the news? No. Other countries don't demean their own, or try to scare you with the news, as in America, you turn on the news and you're tuned into murders, arson, and "three year olds volunteers for cancer patients" type shit.

 

America slanders other countries as well, but it's more subliminal. 

[harryq]

That's generally everywhere. I wouldn't say North Korea is lying, but they may stretch the truth. America is heartless.

 

Here in Okinawa and while I was in Japan, us as Americans in their country; our every move is scrutinized. If a Marine rapes a local national, shit goes fucking worldwide and the effect and branding lasts for years to come. Being stationed here, restrictions are put forth solely to "prevent" anything minor from happening, because we would be in the spotlight. If anybody slips up in the slightest, no matter what the incident, it falls into the every sin is equal rule. I've seen local teenage kids rob a liquor store and hold the man at gun point; is that on the news? No. Other countries don't demean their own, or try to scare you with the news, as in America, you turn on the news and you're tuned into murders, arson, and "three year olds volunteers for cancer patients" type shit.

 

America slanders other countries as well, but it's more subliminal. 

 

I guess my point depends on what angle the north korean media is trying to play to.  if they're trying to make north koreans think that what they're going through isn't so shitty compared to the horrible life of americans, that's one thing.  by all means zero in on homeless shelters and make it seem like americans drink hot snow and eat birds on tuesday.  but if they're trying to rally the citizens against the US before a war, they could probably just play a clip of "jersey shore" or "the real housewives" and say "despite having knowledge of the suffering in the rest of the world, this is how americans live."

 

and I'm not surprised that the japanese scrutinize americans -- world war II is still relatively recent.  I've heard people in tokyo are not too bad, but the rest of the country has a bit of anti-america sentiment (or something along those lines)

 

as for your discussion of the news media in general, I find that type of stuff fascinating.  how/when did we get the way we are, and why haven't (some) other countries' media outlets done the same (for better or worse)?