wtfomfg666

I really wish No Sleep would learn how to pack records. 2 of the packages i've gotten through the subscription service have had records with seam splits or corners that were totally bent/trashed.

refund is not an option, i want these records, or at least a fucking update. didnt know thats too much to ask? ...actually a refund is an option, you just choose not to use it. As for getting an update, of course that is a reasonable expectation...an expectation he has failed to meet multiple times. Stop acting so surprised. Randomly going to the kids home and demanding an update about a colored piece of plastic with music you have already had access to for over 10 years is just ridiculous, and borderline insane.

Are you kidding me? This might be more ridiculous then MTS's customer service. Get a fucking refund. He's not holding your money hostage, he is just taking forever to put a record out.

lol

QFT I imagine many of the people complaining about the price point of records are sipping on a starbucks latte that was marked up 1700% as they type away on their $1,500 Mac Book that was marked up 300% I never understood why people decide to target a random kid throwing down $3,000 of his own money to release a record that could very well only sell 50 copies.

i don't have a problem with a $20 price tag if that's around how much it cost to print x number of records. i DO have a problem with your idea of 'it's ok to press 500 records and mark them up a ridiculous amount because you think you're only going to sell 100 of those.' Well the 500 records was used as an example because in my experience the cost between printing 100 records and 500 records is smaller than most people think. Printing those extra 400 doesn't even double the cost in most cases. So while someone might predict they will only sell 100 records, they very well might sell 250 records, or maybe even all 500(although very unlikely...or it's possible they will only sell 5 and be out basically out all the money they invested. Small local/indy bands don't have vast marketing data to predict the amount of records they are going to sell. Will they end up making some extra money in the unlikely case that the record sells all 500 and not the 100 they predicted? Yes...but they still took on that initial risk of capital that no one else was willing to do, and for that I am not going to be upset with them being rewarded. I don't consider that exploitation Like I said earlier there is a difference between printing Deja Entendu and marking it up 500% knowing damn well that it will sell through every copy...as opposed to printing Joe Schmoes local punk band for a premium while not having a clue as to how many will end up selling. Now I do agree with you that it is wrong if somehow a band/label knows with absolute certainty that they will only sell 100 records, yet still prints 500 and pass the cost along to the customers. Unfortunately the economics of selling indie records rarely has any certainties.

band should not be releasing it on vinyl, they should tour and work their asses off till they have enough "fans" to justify a bigger pressing. who exactly decides when a pressing is "big enough"? Many people would say a pressing of 500 isn't "big enough" As long as people are willing to pay for it, and are happy with their purchase I don't see anything wrong with releasing a record in small quantities.

either way it increase the price per unit. Lets say they only print 100 and it costs them $16 a unit for each record, would they be exploting fans if they sold it at $16-17? Why not? If 100 people would like to see a record on vinyl, and are willing to pay a premium to see it happen what is wrong with providing it to them?

if you'd like to get nitpicky, and it would please you more, replace the phrase 'business model' with 'way of thinking'. I think your "way of thinking" is what is off. Lets say your favorite band only has 100 fans, and those fans wanted that bands music on vinyl. Would the band be exploiting their fans if they sold their vinyl at $19.99 when for whatever reason it cost them that much to print each record? Would you demand them to sell the record at $13 and lose money, or conversely would you demand them to not even release their record if they can't price it at $13?

Maybe they aren't looking at it as as a "business model", maybe they just want to release a record they love without going broke ::gasp::

Intelligent, well thought out rebuttal. Would read again A+++

i just did explain that, but i shall reiterate for you: paying $20 for a record vs $13 is a bad thing because that's a huge price hike for the customer, based on you assuming that the records won't sell. so really, you're just exploiting those 100 people you know will buy the record regardless of the price. You wouldn't be exploiting anyone, nor would you be hiking the price up from $13 to $20 because the customers would never have the opportunity to buy it for $13 because it isn't financially viable for anyone to release it at that price point. Somehow getting the license to Deja Entendu, printing it on 10 different colors, limiting each to 100 and charging $39.99 is exploitation. Finding a local band you love, and releasing their record that otherwise would never be printed while marking up the price to at least get close to covering your costs is not exploitation. I would easily pay a label $25 if someone took the initiative (and risk) to put my favorite local band Sea Bass on wax. I would know that they are probably going to lose money to begin with, and that I would otherwise not have the opportunity to purchase that record. As a customer I wouldn't feel "exploited", I would feel like a got a great record I love while also supporting the local music scene (and maybe keep the label above water enough to release more local records)

if you can't afford to take the potential financial loss of only selling 100 out of 500 copies, you probably shouldn't be pressing that record. don't pass the repurcussions of your dumb decision on to the customer by jacking the price up for them. The label wouldn't be passing anything onto the customer besides the opportunity to own a record that otherwise wouldn't be pressed. Please explain to me, how is that a bad thing?

What people are missing in this thread is that many times independent labels are releasing records that would otherwise from a monetary perspective not have the demand needed to be pressed. If i'm a label and I love a record that isn't very popular, but I think the demand for the record isn't enough to sell a record for $13 a pop and break even, what is wrong with releasing the record that otherwise wouldn't be pressed and charging $19.99 to get at least close to covering my costs when I run the risk of selling only 100 of the 500 copies I pressed? Those 100 people who loved the album and would otherwise have no chance of seeing the record pressed will be happy, the person who decided to release it won't be totally broke and the catalog of vinyl available to the public will grow. How is that not a positive for the world of music?

Says the guy who charges 30 dollars for a test press. What is that like a 400% markup?

Justified or not, how has the complaining worked out so far? Has it changed anything? It may not make sense, it might not be logical but MTS has constantly shown they cannot deliver a product on time, and eventually the consumer will have to start looking at themselves and ask "why do I continue to pay money for this companies product when I find their service unsatisfactory?" They paid money for a product, and are paying the exact same amount as someone who decides to buy after it goes up for public sale. They also have the right to ask for a refund at any time if they decide the product hasn't or wont be arriving on time. Let's stop acting like the guy is holding peoples money hostage. and delays happen all the time. You aren't an investor hiring someone to provide you a service by a deadline, you are a consumer buying a product. The only true power you have as a consumer is the money you decide to spend or not spend. What other options are there? Clearly the guy has no ability to estimate the time it takes to produce his vinyl, why would you demand him to continue to post a release date?

I'm not at all surprised you only read 2 sentences, because if you had read any more you would have seen this- Which is pretty much saying the exact same thing as this- : Maybe before you get your panties in a bunch, and go off on a tangent of your own you should actually read the post you are bitching about?

Jesus people sure do love to whine don't they? MTS consistently releases quality products, and is also consistently late shipping those products out. Let's not all act soooo surprised every time it happens. Clearly RJ doesn't have bad intentions, and surely he would like to release his products on time, it's just clear that time management isn't his strong suit. Deal with it. The only thing I think he could do in the future to save himself some grief is to give updates as soon as possible. I think these people so attached to the estimated ship dates would even be happy with a simple "Not sure when i'm getting the TOYPAJ vinyl from the factory, hearing of possible production delays, we might be looking at a late ship date. I'll keep you updated" I have a feeling RJ so want's the release to come out on time that he never wants to make a statement saying it will be late because it will be admitting to himself that it won't be on time, and also because he probably doesn't want to get a million snarky responses saying "OMFG ANOTHER MTS DELAY, WHAT A SURPRISE". I can imagine working your ass off to release a product on time, failing to do so and then getting berated for it isn't the most enjoyable thing. It's obviously part of the game, and something he needs to do but I can see why he wouldn't want to.

You gotta get those records for as cheap as possible so you can flip em'. AMIRITE?

I'm not one for defending ETR because I had a nightmare experience with my Starting Line orders and the owner was a total tool when I tried having the problem addressed...but with that said I do find it funny that some labels that order 20 test presses and sell them for probably a 600%+ mark up are trashing people for "charging more just because they can". Give me a break. Stop drawing an invisible line in the sand and expecting people not to cross it. You are not in touch with some all knowing mystical force that tells you the exact point when someone is charging too much. Btw i've only had great experiences ordering from robbed.the.bank. I'm sure he is not making a lot of money off his releases (if any) and I have no problem at all with him coming up with unique/interesting packaging ideas to generate extra income so he can release more records.

with how much he overcharges for both the vinyl and shipping, he is probably about even right now (unless he got totally ripped with production costs, which wouldn't be at all surprising)

this is pretty cool idea, but knowing my luck I will get some horrible color combination.

this is pretty cool idea, but knowing my luck I will get some horrible color combination.

OMFG MY THIRD PRESS LOOKS EXACTLY LIKE MY FIRST PRESS AND NOW I WILL HAVE NO WAY TO PROVE TO PEOPLE HOW COOL AND MORE EXCLUSIVE MY SHIT IS. Seriously the amount of whining in this thread makes me laugh. If you don't like the color or already have the color, throw the extra copy up on ebay and you will get your money back. Problem solved, mistakes happen, move on with your life and do something more productive than whining on an internet message board.

OMFG MY THIRD PRESS LOOKS EXACTLY LIKE MY FIRST PRESS AND NOW I WILL HAVE NO WAY TO PROVE TO PEOPLE HOW COOL AND MORE EXCLUSIVE MY SHIT IS. Seriously the amount of whining in this thread makes me laugh. If you don't like the color or already have the color, throw the extra copy up on ebay and you will get your money back. Problem solved, mistakes happen, move on with your life and do something more productive than whining on an internet message board.