Budget AV Receiver Help

[Keyscapeunit]

Hi all,

 

Merry Christmas!  I've been peppering the forum with a few questions about a new budget turntable setup, and one of the requirements is an AV receiver as it will double as a receiver for our TV.  I will replace this over time, but we need both right now.

 

I'm trying to find a good AV receiver under $500, and I've located a couple in this thread here.  There are two that look interesting and a third recommended in another forum on this site.  We have 5.1 surround sound for movies.

 

1. Onkyo TX-NR727 ($499 includes phono inputs, so I don't think I'd need to buy a preamp, but perhaps the integrated amp sucks - I'm looking at a Cambridge Audio Azur 551P as the preamp alternative if I don't go with this receiver)

 

2. Marantz NR-1504 ($499 no phono input so I would need to buy a preamp)

 

3. Marantz SR 5008 (recommended elsewhere on this forum, $399 refurbished plus preamp)

 

Initially I was leaning towards #3 with the Cambridge preamp, but, if I decide to later upgrade to a separate integrated amplifier in a year or so, would it make sense to go with #1 above instead?  The turntable would be a Rega RP1 (maybe with the performance pack if I can swing it in the budget).  The overall budget for the first investment will be about $1500, and I'm hoping to include some floorstanding speakers, so going with #1 might help a bit but then again I don't want a total crap sound for the turntable.

 

Thanks for the help!!!!

[slinch]

First off, scratch the NR1504 off the list, because it's pretty horrible.

 

Now that that's out of the way, what's your current setup (music and TV)? You mention you currently have a 5.1 set, but that you're also planning on getting some speakers. There are many options you can go with, but it's easier to give advice if you list out specifics of your current setup and where your priorities lie (if you mostly listen to records, digital music or spend most of the time watching TV/movies).

[Keyscapeunit]

Thanks for the reply. I'd say a balance of movies and records whereas my wife will listen to digital music. We have an older sub and center speaker as well as four in ceiling speakers that came with the house. If they sound like crap for music (which I'm expecting) then I will add two floorstanding speakers for record listening. At least that's my current thought.

[Keyscapeunit]

Ultimately, if I upgrade further, I'd leave the AV receiver for movies and get an integrated amp in a separate hi-fi receiver for the turntable. Perhaps the main question would be how decent is the amp on the Onkyo and does it hold up decent in that price range for movies.

[ajxd]

Just a quick note: 2 channel works really well for movies too.

[slinch]

Okay, by what you're describing I'd go the exact opposite way.

 

- Start off with an integrated amp and a pair of solid speakers. Use that for music and movies.

- Down the line when you want to upgrade, get a solid receiver.

- Then slowly start adding additional speakers as money allows.

 

If you buy any of the receivers you mentioned, you'll get a horrible music-listening experience and a relatively bad movie experience. Then if you upgrade later you might upgrade to a better stereo setup, but you'll still be left with a bad HT setup. What ajxd is saying is absolutely true. Even more, a good 2-channel setup is BETTER for movies than a poor multichannel setup.

[Keyscapeunit]

Thanks guys, I definitely want to avoid wasting money!

 

Do you have any recommendations for a good integrated amp that will support the home theater and a turntable (I'm guessing one with multiple inputs, etc.)?  I'm probably looking at the $500 range if possible - I don't know if that budget will afford anything decent.  I can make some adjustments to bring that $500 figure up a bit, however... the overall budget is about $1500 right now.

 

Something like this maybe?

 

Also, what would a decent HT receiver be for under $1000 to $1500 (for on down the line)?

 

Thanks!!

[Keyscapeunit]

In the beginner's sticky, I see this:

 

Amplification:

Those marked with * include a built in phono stage.

 

<$550

Nad C-316BEE ($380)

Yamaha A-S500 ($400) *

Marantz PM5004 ($450) * (Amazon has this for $359 right now)

Jolida JD301BRC ($500)

Onkyo A9050 ($500) * (Amazon has this for $349 right now)

Nad C-316BEE ($550)

Cambridge Audio 351A ($550)

Music Hall A15.3 ($550) *

Teac AH01 ($550)

 

If I'm reading this correctly, anything with an asterisk would be something with an integrated amp and would be decent for an intro-level offering?

 

Thanks again... I'm still figuring quite a bit of this stuff out.

[circuit bored records]

In the beginner's sticky, I see this:

Amplification:

Those marked with * include a built in phono stage.

<$550

Nad C-316BEE ($380)

Yamaha A-S500 ($400) *

Marantz PM5004 ($450) * (Amazon has this for $359 right now)

Jolida JD301BRC ($500)

Onkyo A9050 ($500) * (Amazon has this for $349 right now)

Nad C-316BEE ($550)

Cambridge Audio 351A ($550)

Music Hall A15.3 ($550) *

Teac AH01 ($550)

If I'm reading this correctly, anything with an asterisk would be something with an integrated amp and would be decent for an intro-level offering?

Thanks again... I'm still figuring quite a bit of this stuff out.

You are correct.

[Keyscapeunit]

<deleted>

[Keyscapeunit]

Okay, dumb question - if I go with that Marantz receiver above and I want to be able to play up to three pairs of speakers, is there a decent speaker selector I could use or does that destroy audio quality?

[Tardcore]

Okay, dumb question - if I go with that Marantz receiver above and I want to be able to play up to three pairs of speakers, is there a decent speaker selector I could use or does that destroy audio quality?

If you're listening to music, you should stick to a single pair of speakers.

[circuit bored records]

If you're listening to music, you should stick to a single pair of speakers.

You are also correct

[slinch]

If I'm reading this correctly, anything with an asterisk would be something with an integrated amp and would be decent for an intro-level offering?

Okay, dumb question - if I go with that Marantz receiver above and I want to be able to play up to three pairs of speakers, is there a decent speaker selector I could use or does that destroy audio quality?

 

Just to avoid confusion:

- a receiver is usually a multichannel AV amplifier intended for home theater use.

- an integrated amplifier is a 2-channel amplifier intended for stereo use.

 

the list above shows integrated amplifiers, the ones with an asterisk include a phono preamp, which is the part that is needed to use a turntable with.

 

The marantz integrated amp above (PM5004) allows for two sest of speakers to be connected, but they cannot be used simultaneously - you can only use one pair at a time. You could add a speaker selector to one of those outputs and hook up a third pair, it wouldn't degrade the audio quality too much.

 

 

Also, what would a decent HT receiver be for under $1000 to $1500 (for on down the line)?

 

Thanks!!

 

You can get a really good one for under $1000. This one for exaymple is incredible: http://www.amazon.com/Marantz-SR7007-Receiver-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B0081N91BM/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1419680963&sr=1-1&keywords=marantz+sr

[Keyscapeunit]

Thanks again to everyone for these answers and elsewhere... this forum has been fantastic.

[Keyscapeunit]

After everyone's help and talking to a few vendors, I settled in on the following:

 

1. Marantz PM5004 - hard to beat on the price at $349

2. Pro-Ject Audio Debut Carbon DC Esprit SB

3. Audioengine B1 Premium Bluetooth Music Receiver

 

I have not bought speakers yet but those will be a follow up purchase after testing my current speakers.

 

I do have a question on setup of the receiver and speakers, though.  The manual to the amplifier lists the following impedance:

 

1. Speaker A Only: 4 - 16 Ω

2. Speaker B Only: 4 - 16 Ω

3. Speakers A and B: 8 - 16 Ω

 

From our discussion above, I didn't think this receiver could play two pairs of speakers at once, but the impedance chart seems to suggest it can?

 

Also, what would the max input impedance of the speakers be that I could support?  Would two pairs of 8 ohm speakers work?  I don't want to damage the amp, of course

[allenh]

Why do you want to run so many speakers? What are trying to achieve?

 

either way don't get too bogged down with it, it will make your head hurt with maths you don't need and possibly your ears bleed if you get it wrong.

 

This A/B stuff was intended so that you could listen to music in different rooms from one system.

 

The manual intends for a pair of speakers on set A and a pair on set B in a different room so you can listen in one room, the other room or both rooms together, of course this isn't often how they are used as you can run a single pair of speakers in bi amped configuration if the speakers are designed to be connected that way where e.g set A drives the treble and set B drives the Bass which is why the different impedance spec for running both sets of outputs.

 

Multi speaker systems with more than that are for AV systems and the difference between 2 channel hifi and AV has been clearly explained above by Slinch.

 

If you are trying to replicate AV on a 2 channel amp with lots of speakers it won't work like proper AV as the multi channel AV amp has different channels to send the rear sounds to the rear speakers and the centre sounds to the centre speaker etc. etc. But as ajxd says you 2 channel can sound just fine for movies.

[Keyscapeunit]

Why do you want to run so many speakers? What are trying to achieve?

 

Thanks allenh for the reply!  We have some outdoor speakers that are wired into the house, and I am hoping that I would be able to run music through both the main speakers next to the TT and potentially through the outdoor speakers at the same time (i.e. if we were hosting a party, etc.).  Will that work?  That is really all I need here... we have some other speakers built-in around the house, but I don't see us using them much.  I just would like the main room speakers and the outdoor speakers to be run at the same time (i.e. A and B going at the same time) and don't want to overstress the amp.

[allenh]

Yes that should work fine and exactly what the A/B outputs were originally intended for.

 

Check the specs on the outdoor speakers and make sure they are capable of taking the power output of the amp, that is more of a concern with that sort of speaker than the impedance which should be fine provided they are 8 ohm or over.

 

Sounds like the house was wired for multi-room so you might find you have little amplifiers built into the wall control boxes, Some multi room systems have local amps in the rooms and some have a single multi amp unit in one place and it's identifiable by what type of cable comes back to the central point 

[Keyscapeunit]

Thank you! There is a volume control knob on the wall for the outdoor speakers, so perhaps a small amp is involved somewhere.

I'm excited for my first hifi setup and am grateful for everyone's input. Look forward to seeing how it sounds.

[allenh]

The volume control doesn't always mean there is an amp as it could just be an attenuator.

The giveaway is the cable so if its standard 2 core cable its for speakers but if its 2 coax types with RCA jacks on the end its line level to drive a remote amp, the RCA jacks might have been taken off though so you need to check the cable, post a picture as someone will be able to identify it for you.

The bad news is that if the speaker sets do have their own amps you can't just wire them to the speaker outs on your new amplifier.

[Keyscapeunit]

The connections on the amplifier end are standard speaker jacks built into the wall next to all the other speakers.  I guess I could take the plate off and post a pic?

[allenh]

If they're standard speaker jacks it sounds like you will be fine but a look inside one of the plates will confirm it for you.

[Tardcore]

should work either way.

If I am following along correctly, you're condidering the Pm5004 which has 2 sets of Tape outputs which would work to feed an external amp with independent volume control.

I use Tape output to feed a headphone amp. Same concept.

[Keyscapeunit]

There is an A/B speaker selection on the PM5004,so I will hook up two sets of speakers.

The site I ordered from was out of the Carbon Debut Esprit (they called today). They swapped the Rega RP1 with the performance pack at the price of the Esprit. Fate flipped my coin back to me, Rega it is!