daegor Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I guess you prefer other people (like me) to do the dirty work. What dirty work? I buy new from the retailer or used directly from the seller. Occasionally I buy used from a store, but not often. So unless you're talking about buying records to flip for a profit, then you aren't doing the "dirty work". If you are talking about buying records to flip for a profit then you are definitely in the wrong place. That being said, if you have a list in your head of every possible album ever that you'd like to listen to or buy, so be it. I am defeated. My speculation, though, is that part of you is always curious as to which album you would like to listen to next. When I'm listening to classical records, yes I am thinking of specific pieces. But I have to do research to find the best arrangements and pressings. I have my entire list of every possible album that I'd ever like to listen to or buy in my pocket, via my want list on Discogs. Anytime I'm curious about new music there is this thing called YouTube/Spotify/iTunes/Torrents that hooks me up right quick. Your reference to classical music and composers/arrangements is irrelevant for two reasons: 1) The composer/arrangement/etc dynamic is not a factor outside of the realm of classical music. 2) All your proposing is that you take the research you did, and put it on your website. That doesn't make your website better than the source you found the information on. I know you're saying that you'll compile the information (or that users will, who haven't registered and won't follow a set format) into one place, but the truth is there is a service that does this already. Google. When I went to buy my "Abbey Road" album, I didn't know the difference between an original pressing or a repressing. It took research to understand this. Sure, it was a personal thing, but I wanted to have an original record that was pressed when the Beatles were playing. But there are other reasons too, again. I couldn't find any information on Discogs about sonic differences between pressings, just a bunch of label variations and numbers. And to me that would be very helpful. When I went to buy my Abbey Road I didn't know the difference between an original pressing or a repressing. It took research to understand this. We had two different purposes. I wanted the best sounding version. You wanted an OG pressing for nostalgic purposes. I wanted to know the sonic differences between pressings, so I started at Discogs. I noticed that there had recently been a few repressings, so coping/pasting the UPC code into Google I researched them. Turns out there was a Stereo and a Mono repressing that had received very favorable reviews. But which to get, Mono or Stereo? The same reviews pointed me towards the answer. The best option depends on whether the original was recorded in Mono or Stereo, as this varied from album to album. Back to Discogs. Checking the first UK pressing of the album, Stereo. So, I want the Stereo remaster. But what's it worth? Turns out Discogs has that information on the pressing page! Out of their sales history the cheapest it sold for was $15, the most expensive was $22.41, usually sells for $19.50 or so. So I know now that if it's more expensive than that I can find it elsewhere for cheaper. How long did it take me to go from knowing nothing about the album to know exactly what pressing I want and what I should pay? (out of over 250 options, according to Discogs!) About two minutes. I seriously cannot think of any way to improve upon using Discogs and Google. And you simply have not suggested anything that is an improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGhostOfRandySavage Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Fair enough. Who is 'we'? How exactly is "unusable clusterfuck" constructive criticism? Full disclosure: I see your point now. You are very mature and I should listen to you. You read very selectively, there was an explanation behind why it would become unusable and what could be referred to as a clusterfuck.You didn't disclose anything, just stated a fact everyone knows, so no reason to use the full disclosure tag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daegor Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Also, a 2 second Google search reveals that your're not the first one to try this (and fail, given the state of the websites): http://recordcollectorsguild.org/ http://vinylrecordcollector.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjkenney Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Ask for opinions, get butthurt when criticism is portrayed=entrepreneur in the modern age. I've read tho entire threw and still don't get the point. If you want to make articles on aspects of collecting go for it. But Discogs is beyond thorough with their release info. You have a copy of Led Zep 4 and there's over a hundred versions? Take 5 minutes on Discogs comparing catalog numbers etc and you have an answer. Post this on your Facebook and I'm sure you'll get some nice comments from friends and family letting you know how great of an idea you have, since real life exposure isn't getting you what you want to hear. If you plan on launching something you are passionate about and you are this sensitive about what people think, you may just want to stick to your day job. As mentioned, the "hostility" comes from you being the thousandth new user to come on here with a revolutionary idea only to get super defensive when the opinion you asked for is given to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusted_By_Space Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Can't multi quote on mobile but this: "Sound quality on a personal level is subjective... but it's also quantifiable at the same time. First of all, sound waves are measurable..." Then this: "...But what is possible is for one user maybe to compare two different pressings. He writes something down. Another reader happens to have knowledge about other variations and builds onto it." So again it would all come back to ones personal opinion of what sounds best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGhostOfRandySavage Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Can't multi quote on mobile but this: "Sound quality on a personal level is subjective... but it's also quantifiable at the same time. First of all, sound waves are measurable..." Then this: "...But what is possible is for one user maybe to compare two different pressings. He writes something down. Another reader happens to have knowledge about other variations and builds onto it." So again it would all come back to ones personal opinion of what sounds best. Exactly. It would just turn into people fighting over which press is best (especially those who haven't heard specific presses.) People argue all the time about the first 3 Metallica albums. Is the Megaforce better, or is the Elektra press better? Depends how much bass or treble you want in the mix, what about the drums though? "They sound better on x version." "No, they sound better on y version." That is what message boards are for. You can't put something that subjective in a wiki, which is supposed to be "facts" though often times those facts are incorrect as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusted_By_Space Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Exactly. It would just turn into people fighting over which press is best (especially those who haven't heard specific presses.) People argue all the time about the first 3 Metallica albums. Is the Megaforce better, or is the Elektra press better? Depends how much bass or treble you want in the mix, what about the drums though? "They sound better on x version." "No, they sound better on y version." That is what message boards are for. You can't put something that subjective in a wiki, which is supposed to be "facts" though often times those facts are incorrect as well. My old man(biggest Springsteen fan in the world possibly) and one of his buddies have been arguing over what's the best press of born to run for 40 years. FORTY YEARS. kjkenney and discpedia 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discpedia Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 ..and it continues What dirty work? I buy new from the retailer or used directly from the seller. Occasionally I buy used from a store, but not often. So unless you're talking about buying records to flip for a profit, then you aren't doing the "dirty work". If you are talking about buying records to flip for a profit then you are definitely in the wrong place. I was referring to seeking out desirable records. I don't typically buy records new, so our view on collecting is different. Anyway, someone has to find the records that most people want to buy. I have my entire list of every possible album that I'd ever like to listen to or buy in my pocket, via my want list on Discogs. Anytime I'm curious about new music there is this thing called YouTube/Spotify/iTunes/Torrents that hooks me up right quick. I'm guessing it's just me, but that sounds like an exception to the rule. When I walk into a record store, for example, I usually look for something that might interest me. Without having any ideas, though, it's pretty difficult without listening to every single LP. Your reference to classical music and composers/arrangements is irrelevant for two reasons: 1) The composer/arrangement/etc dynamic is not a factor outside of the realm of classical music. 2) All your proposing is that you take the research you did, and put it on your website. That doesn't make your website better than the source you found the information on. I know you're saying that you'll compile the information (or that users will, who haven't registered and won't follow a set format) into one place, but the truth is there is a service that does this already. Google. Fair enough. Most pop songs do not have different composers and arrangements. Instrumental albums, including classical and jazz (which are both very collectible), however, do. So the relevancy can't be discounted that easily. Yes that is what I am proposing. That is what Wikipedia does, and I do believe it is better than millions on millions of other websites, even if Google does direct to them. The difference is that users cannot make edits at will to pages encountered on Google, nor again are the pages all so easily accessible. When I went to buy my Abbey Road I didn't know the difference between an original pressing or a repressing. It took research to understand this. We had two different purposes. I wanted the best sounding version. You wanted an OG pressing for nostalgic purposes. I wanted to know the sonic differences between pressings, so I started at Discogs. I noticed that there had recently been a few repressings, so coping/pasting the UPC code into Google I researched them. Turns out there was a Stereo and a Mono repressing that had received very favorable reviews. But which to get, Mono or Stereo? The same reviews pointed me towards the answer. The best option depends on whether the original was recorded in Mono or Stereo, as this varied from album to album. Back to Discogs. Checking the first UK pressing of the album, Stereo. So, I want the Stereo remaster. But what's it worth? Turns out Discogs has that information on the pressing page! Out of their sales history the cheapest it sold for was $15, the most expensive was $22.41, usually sells for $19.50 or so. So I know now that if it's more expensive than that I can find it elsewhere for cheaper. How long did it take me to go from knowing nothing about the album to know exactly what pressing I want and what I should pay? (out of over 250 options, according to Discogs!) About two minutes. I seriously cannot think of any way to improve upon using Discogs and Google. And you simply have not suggested anything that is an improvement. Yes, I can appreciate how you came to understand what you wanted to purchase. I do that same exact thing all the time. What I don't understand is how you can deny that it would be easier if there was one webpage that said the differences between pressings and the original pressing master. Then, you could log onto Discogs or what have you and find a price. You just cut out three of four web searches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daegor Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Yes, I can appreciate how you came to understand what you wanted to purchase. I do that same exact thing all the time. What I don't understand is how you can deny that it would be easier if there was one webpage that said the differences between pressings and the original pressing master. Then, you could log onto Discogs or what have you and find a price. You just cut out three of four web searches. If you can offer a method that will actually do so (read, find the information in less than two minutes NOT using currently available tools), then kudos. You haven't yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discpedia Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 If you can offer a method that will actually do so (read, find the information in less than two minutes NOT using currently available tools), then kudos. You haven't yet. Two minutes was sort of just a number he through out. But what exactly are you trying to say? If all the information is in one place, that's how.. Why does nobody here recognize the innate power of a wiki? This was brought up a while ago, and everyone starting dissing the credibility of Wikipedia. But the bottom line is that wikis are fast and generally present great information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discpedia Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 Also, a 2 second Google search reveals that your're not the first one to try this (and fail, given the state of the websites): http://recordcollectorsguild.org/ http://vinylrecordcollector.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page I don't think the first one is a wiki. But the fact that it's the top search result on Google isn't too shabby. The second one is a wikia.com website and it looks like there's virtually no content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discpedia Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 Can't multi quote on mobile but this: "Sound quality on a personal level is subjective... but it's also quantifiable at the same time. First of all, sound waves are measurable..." Then this: "...But what is possible is for one user maybe to compare two different pressings. He writes something down. Another reader happens to have knowledge about other variations and builds onto it." So again it would all come back to ones personal opinion of what sounds best. Exactly. It would just turn into people fighting over which press is best (especially those who haven't heard specific presses.) People argue all the time about the first 3 Metallica albums. Is the Megaforce better, or is the Elektra press better? Depends how much bass or treble you want in the mix, what about the drums though? "They sound better on x version." "No, they sound better on y version." That is what message boards are for. You can't put something that subjective in a wiki, which is supposed to be "facts" though often times those facts are incorrect as well. Yes, but the end result would theoretically look like "Many people believe xxx pressing is the best while others believe xxx is." Or, "xxx is the most sought after pressing of Metallica "Zzz" because of its blah blah blah blah." That's just how wikis and articles in general are written. There are different standards for different websites. ie here we are talking to one another. Wiki articles aren't so personal and interactive between members. There are talk boards behind each article, however, where people can discuss. So the end result of that would be you get an article, and behind that article you can find a discussion of it. Right now I wish I could combine this all into a wiki article because it's a lot to read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daegor Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I think a key piece you (and to be fair, everyone else in this thread) are missing is the reality of how a wiki works... Users submit and edit content. I assume one of the reasons you came here was to see if you could find some users that might be interested in submitting content. What you need to take away from this is that you're not going to find them here. I wish you luck in your search for other people that are interested in your idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discpedia Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 I think a key piece you (and to be fair, everyone else in this thread) are missing is the reality of how a wiki works... Users submit and edit content. I assume one of the reasons you came here was to see if you could find some users that might be interested in submitting content. What you need to take away from this is that you're not going to find them here. I wish you luck in your search for other people that are interested in your idea. Yes, that's fair. You're not interested and don't think anyone else on this site will be. That's why I posted. This posting has, however, received a surprising amount of attention, negative or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discpedia Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 Also, Turdburgers guy. Really funny. Well, now the TALK (wasn't even a page) listing is deleted and your ip address is banned from the site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aarondltd Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Someone is going to be really upset about that. I was expecting different in here by meow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusted_By_Space Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 aarondltd and daegor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGhostOfRandySavage Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Also, Turdburgers guy. Really funny. Well, now the TALK (wasn't even a page) listing is deleted and your ip address is banned from the site. Well then! You just lost yourself a conscientious, self-motivated contributor to the wiki! Whatever will I do not being able to go to a website where I can see all the comparisons of different pressings and why they're different? Oh. Wait. Discogs still exists. (Just a heads up, I can still access the site, so you'd better try to ban me again. I don't think it took.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discpedia Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 Very funny jokes. I don't know why anyone wouldn't respect you now. By the way, it's a ban from posting, not viewing the page. I think it's pretty funny that you checked though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGhostOfRandySavage Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 daegor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korgull Of Morgoth Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Would rather use Discogs, sorry. Dusted_By_Space 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futures Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 re: checking the going rate of used records in large quantities: that cratedigger app exists. all you do is scan the barcode and it gives you recent / up to date pricing on said record. super easy, super quick. no wiki needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discpedia Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 re: checking the going rate of used records in large quantities: that cratedigger app exists. all you do is scan the barcode and it gives you recent / up to date pricing on said record. super easy, super quick. no wiki needed. I've never heard of that app.. Sounds really interesting though.. it's probably somehow connected to Discogs. Do you mostly collect albums with bar codes? I think they started using codes on albums sometime in the 70s. Still, if I were selling a big crate of records I wouldn't be too happy having someone go through and scan each of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futures Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Yes. You can also look it up by the title and year listed on the jacket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discpedia Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 Yes. You can also look it up by the title and year listed on the jacket. I guess it's just a difference in what you're collecting, but I think 99% of the albums I own don't have a bar code or some sort of date designation. I'll look into that app, though. Sounds like it could come in handy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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