I don't know what to do anymore...

[Guest baseball]

You do realize you're criticizing things that WERE USED IN PSYCHOTHERAPY before the pharmaceutical companies came out with a multitude of fancy SSRI's and stuff right? Open up a history book.

This is some awful logic. You realize that people used to believe in creating a master race by gassing or otherwise murdering anyone without blonde hair and blue eyes? I MEAN OPEN A HISTORY BOOK

The whole course of humanity has been devoted to looking back at history, realizing how naive it was, and improving on it. This is why we don't prescribe heroin for headaches or believe in a flat earth anymore.

I'm going to be honest, I have no idea what your example even means. It's completely ludicrous.

Saying "The whole course of humanity has been devoted to looking back at history, realizing how naive it was, and improving on it." is completely silly. Do you realize how many conflicts are going on in the world right now because of how much we have not learned from history? The point of history isn't to look back on how naive it is, it's to learn from it.

What you're naive to is the fact that the government outlawed MEDICAL RESEARCH into marijuana, LSD, and mushrooms in relation to psychotherapy to fit the ideologically driven war on drugs 40 years ago. Even though the research was very promising in its use in psychotherapy. It's well documented, want me to suggest a few books to read? Research into LSD has been re-opened in Switzerland. Johns Hopkins University, one of the best medical institutions in the country is studying mushrooms again.

Your heroin example is completely simple minded. You have no sense of context. Just because medical research was halted on 'disapproved' drugs like marijuana, lsd, and mushrooms decades ago doesn't mean that there was no substance to the findings. You're completely discounting valuable pharmacological information that has been gathered over hundreds of years. Modern research draws from old pharmacology all the time. I suspect you've never read anything whatsoever on pharmacology dating all the way back to antiquity. I just finished a book on pharmacology in Greco-Roman culture, where they used marijuana among many other drugs that were further drawn upon for knowledge. Do you think when they find plants in the jungle for cancer drugs they're just making wild guesses on what to look at?

What's next? Are you going to discount everything Freud ever did because he thought cocaine was a miracle drug? You have no sense of context and your views on history are pretty ridiculous.

[Guest baseball]

And the acid/lsd thing is crazy!!!. That is one of the contributing factors to how I developed anxiety disorder, and my old roommate developed very serious psychological problems from that shit.

Saying something is a 'contributing factor' is practically meaningless. There's a thousand things that could be a contributing factor to an anxiety disorder. LSD has as good a chance as being a contributing factor to an anxiety disorder as caffeine or being made fun of when you were a kid.

recreation maybe shrooms are cool. But stay away from lsd, that will fuck your mind. And none of these illegal drugs have proven more useful than prescribed drugs.

Marijuana can cause anxiety as well.

anyone who says turn to drugs to help your deppression, or go out and drink is a fool. A recipe for complete disaster.

See a therapist seriuosly.

Best of luck man. I certainly hope things take a turn for the better.

Turn that frown upside down

Saying "none of these illegal drugs have proven more useful than prescribed drugs" doesn't mean anything. None of these legal drugs have proven to be any more useful than the illegal drugs either. Some work for some people, others work for other people. You can't even really compare the two because the levels of research are so disproportionate.

Marijuana does not cause anxiety. It's been shown many times that there's no chemical component of marijuana that has any correlation to anxiety. It's much more likely that marijuana's legal status or any number of 'setting related' characteristics contributes to anxiety from using it. Saying marijuana causes anxiety is causitive and a logical fallacy.

I agree on the see a *good* therapist advice. Just make sure you don't delude yourself into thinking a therapist is prescribing things that aren't drugs. Chanes are they will be prescribing more powerful, more toxic, and more easily abused drugs to you than the ones I've mentioned.

[jailhouse]

This is some awful logic. You realize that people used to believe in creating a master race by gassing or otherwise murdering anyone without blonde hair and blue eyes? I MEAN OPEN A HISTORY BOOK

The whole course of humanity has been devoted to looking back at history, realizing how naive it was, and improving on it. This is why we don't prescribe heroin for headaches or believe in a flat earth anymore.

I'm going to be honest, I have no idea what your example even means. It's completely ludicrous.

Saying "The whole course of humanity has been devoted to looking back at history, realizing how naive it was, and improving on it." is completely silly. Do you realize how many conflicts are going on in the world right now because of how much we have not learned from history? The point of history isn't to look back on how naive it is, it's to learn from it.

What you're naive to is the fact that the government outlawed MEDICAL RESEARCH into marijuana, LSD, and mushrooms in relation to psychotherapy to fit the ideologically driven war on drugs 40 years ago. Even though the research was very promising in its use in psychotherapy. It's well documented, want me to suggest a few books to read? Research into LSD has been re-opened in Switzerland. Johns Hopkins University, one of the best medical institutions in the country is studying mushrooms again.

Your heroin example is completely simple minded. You have no sense of context. Just because medical research was halted on 'disapproved' drugs like marijuana, lsd, and mushrooms decades ago doesn't mean that there was no substance to the findings. You're completely discounting valuable pharmacological information that has been gathered over hundreds of years. Modern research draws from old pharmacology all the time. I suspect you've never read anything whatsoever on pharmacology dating all the way back to antiquity. I just finished a book on pharmacology in Greco-Roman culture, where they used marijuana among many other drugs that were further drawn upon for knowledge. Do you think when they find plants in the jungle for cancer drugs they're just making wild guesses on what to look at?

What's next? Are you going to discount everything Freud ever did because he thought cocaine was a miracle drug? You have no sense of context and your views on history are pretty ridiculous.

Well, doctors do use narcotics when necessary, there are countless pain medications that are basically a form of heroin/morphine. Opiates have a wide range of use in modern medicine.

So I don't think that it's some sort of conspiracy that people aren't allowed to use shrooms or marijuana or lsd.

People that advocate these things are usually the same people who subscribe to High Times, and such.

It's completely ridiculous to reccomend to anyone that they try drugs to help them with their psychological problem. Especially seeing as thought, (as far as I know) no one here has treated this guy or is a doctor. For all you know his particular condition could be worsened greatly by doing drugs.

If he was to heed the advice of dropping acid or going out and drinking etc, and it caused him a further breakdown, then it would be real shame.

Just fyi. They just came out with a patch that virtually elimates the nauseating effects of chemotherapy in cancer patients. Those who have been advocating marijuana for it's supposed anti nausea medicinal effects, are going to have to hurry up and try to figure something else out that it may minimally help.

These drug arguments are stupid and make no sense.

Taking drugs is stupid. It is not a smart thing to do at all.

This is coming from someone who did drugs for the better part of 17 years.

[casey]

I meant that anyone who thinks that something should be done now because it was done a long time ago has not learned from history and is being naive. Sorry you can't grasp that concept. And advocating the use of drugs that are proven to cause paranoia for use by someone who is already suffering anxiety is incredibly irresponsible.

[Guest baseball]

Well, doctors do use narcotics when necessary, there are countless pain medications that are basically a form of heroin/morphine. Opiates have a wide range of use in modern medicine.

So I don't think that it's some sort of conspiracy that people aren't allowed to use shrooms or marijuana or lsd.

You're right, it's not a conspiracy. A conspiracy would neglect facts. The fact is that medical research was outright blocked 40 years ago and all these drugs that were being researched for medical BENEFITS were rescheduled to schedule 1, or having "no medical uses". By the way, the commission that was assigned to look into those drugs recommended they undergo further medical research. Nixon's administration blocked their findings because it did not support their budding war on drugs. It's right there in history, go read about it.

People that advocate these things are usually the same people who subscribe to High Times, and such.

It's completely ridiculous to reccomend to anyone that they try drugs to help them with their psychological problem. Especially seeing as thought, (as far as I know) no one here has treated this guy or is a doctor. For all you know his particular condition could be worsened greatly by doing drugs.

If he was to heed the advice of dropping acid or going out and drinking etc, and it caused him a further breakdown, then it would be real shame.

I never said he shouldn't see a doctor. I said he should find one he likes and gets good advice from. I didn't say he should definitively do anything, I said that there are alternative things to look into, the post was about him feeling hopeless after all. There's doctors in this country that legally prescribe marijuana for depression and anxiety. Thanks for the stereotyping though.

Just fyi. They just came out with a patch that virtually elimates the nauseating effects of chemotherapy in cancer patients. Those who have been advocating marijuana for it's supposed anti nausea medicinal effects, are going to have to hurry up and try to figure something else out that it may minimally help.

Right, because there's one drug that is unilaterally used to treat every person in this country going through the same things. The pharmaceutical companies sure have some explaining to do then!

Seriously, though. That's good news. It does not however, damage the case for medical marijuana in the least. Cannabinoids in marijuana have been shown in research to have promising benefits in regards to many many things. For example: anxiety, depression, insomnia, breast cancer, shrinking of cancer cells, epillepsy, gualcoma(sp?), and brain tumors. Would you like me to link you to some studies? By the way, the second biggest organization of doctors in the US has endorsed further research into marijuana as well as the largest nursing association. The illegitimacy of medical cannabis at this point is pure politics.

These drug arguments are stupid and make no sense.

Taking drugs is stupid. It is not a smart thing to do at all.

This is coming from someone who did drugs for the better part of 17 years.

According to you, taking disapproved drugs is stupid. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion. Drugs are just drugs. You obviously had bad relationships with drugs, I'm sorry to hear that. Just because you presumably abused drugs, does that mean no one should use them? There's thousands of people in this country that abuse Oxycontin, does that mean the thousands of cancer patients who get relief from it should not be able to take it? You're showing some extreme bias here. I'll leave you with a quote often showcased in textbooks about drugs.

"There are no inherently good or bad drugs, there are only good or bad relationships with drugs." Dr. Andrew Weil, M.D.

[jhulud]

A lot has been said and suggested already that I would said as well. I agree with most of it. I have had my bouts with anxiety and depression. What may work for someone, may not for you.

The best thing that I can say, is to decide what is best for you and take the mindset that you will rise above it (as rschoene illustrated).

It may or may not have much meaning in the world of the interwebz, but if there's anything we can do for you here on thie board, never hesitate to approach any of us. Publicly or via PMs. We're just one big happy e-familiy here and it shows on the bonds a few of us have formed with others and taken them beyond and into the real and scary world.

[Guest baseball]

I meant that anyone who thinks that something should be done now because it was done a long time ago has not learned from history and is being naive. Sorry you can't grasp that concept. And advocating the use of drugs that are proven to cause paranoia for use by someone who is already suffering anxiety is incredibly irresponsible.

I didn't grasp it because it wasn't what I was inferring. What's been proven to cause paranoia? Show me the study. I've read at least 100 of them on it, maybe you know of some I don't.

There's no chemical component to the paranoia. It's related to setting, not the drug. That's why people who have been administered LSD, psylocibin (mushrooms), and marijuana in controlled setting have overwhelmingly reported positive results in regards to psychotherapy.

[lokithelion]

Don't do LSD or shrooms. In your mind set it'll fuck you up.

Pot might actually help you chill a bit but it's something I'd turn to as a last ditch effort after working out, eating much better, and talking to your folks. Having a support net is really helpful.

[jailhouse]

Well, doctors do use narcotics when necessary, there are countless pain medications that are basically a form of heroin/morphine. Opiates have a wide range of use in modern medicine.

So I don't think that it's some sort of conspiracy that people aren't allowed to use shrooms or marijuana or lsd.

You're right, it's not a conspiracy. A conspiracy would neglect facts. The fact is that medical research was outright blocked 40 years ago and all these drugs that were being researched for medical BENEFITS were rescheduled to schedule 1, or having "no medical uses". By the way, the commission that was assigned to look into those drugs recommended they undergo further medical research. Nixon's administration blocked their findings because it did not support their budding war on drugs. It's right there in history, go read about it.

I never said he shouldn't see a doctor. I said he should find one he likes and gets good advice from. I didn't say he should definitively do anything, I said that there are alternative things to look into, the post was about him feeling hopeless after all. There's doctors in this country that legally prescribe marijuana for depression and anxiety. Thanks for the stereotyping though.

Right, because there's one drug that is unilaterally used to treat every person in this country going through the same things. The pharmaceutical companies sure have some explaining to do then!

Seriously, though. That's good news. It does not however, damage the case for medical marijuana in the least. Cannabinoids in marijuana have been shown in research to have promising benefits in regards to many many things. For example: anxiety, depression, insomnia, breast cancer, shrinking of cancer cells, epillepsy, gualcoma(sp?), and brain tumors. Would you like me to link you to some studies? By the way, the second biggest organization of doctors in the US has endorsed further research into marijuana as well as the largest nursing association. The illegitimacy of medical cannabis at this point is pure politics.

These drug arguments are stupid and make no sense.

Taking drugs is stupid. It is not a smart thing to do at all.

This is coming from someone who did drugs for the better part of 17 years.

According to you, taking disapproved drugs is stupid. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion. Drugs are just drugs. You obviously had bad relationships with drugs, I'm sorry to hear that. Just because you presumably abused drugs, does that mean no one should use them? There's thousands of people in this country that abuse Oxycontin, does that mean the thousands of cancer patients who get relief from it should not be able to take it? You're showing some extreme bias here. I'll leave you with a quote often showcased in textbooks about drugs.

"There are no inherently good or bad drugs, there are only good or bad relationships with drugs." Dr. Andrew Weil, M.D.

I think what I said came out in a more offensive manner than I intentioned. For that I apologize. I certainly should not stereotype.

So yeah, I accept that some of that was said in haste, and therefore, hopefully is taken with a grain of salt. Personally I see nothing wrong with smoking weed, and feel it should be legal if just for the entertainment aspect.

The main thing was against lsd and shrooms and such.

I stand by most of what was said, just regret that it was said hastily.

My personal stance is that I am against drug use, but we all have our opinions(I'm not straightedge)

Agree to disagree!

[jailhouse]

Saying something is a 'contributing factor' is practically meaningless. There's a thousand things that could be a contributing factor to an anxiety disorder. LSD has as good a chance as being a contributing factor to an anxiety disorder as caffeine or being made fun of when you were a kid.

Sorry to post again. But the above is nuts, I just noticed this.

I certainly hope he doesn't take that advice Mr. Leary.

Again please no one take medical advice on a message board. You end with stuff like the above.

[birdwell]

Don't know you (as I'm new to the board)

but I've dealt with similar shit

Fucking sucks

Finding a therapist that you're comfortable with was pretty key for myself...as you've said and noted, not all of them give 2 shits...just going through the motions to get their money. (but w/o the insurance I can see where that would be problematic)

I personally hate medication...I'm currently coming off of Effexor and it's fucking worse than before I started meds...

Good Luck man, obviously there's people on this board that feel for ya and empathize...Don't Loose Hope

PEACE

[Guest baseball]

Saying something is a 'contributing factor' is practically meaningless. There's a thousand things that could be a contributing factor to an anxiety disorder. LSD has as good a chance as being a contributing factor to an anxiety disorder as caffeine or being made fun of when you were a kid.

Sorry to post again. But the above is nuts, I just noticed this.

I certainly hope he doesn't take that advice Mr. Leary.

Again please no one take medical advice on a message board. You end with stuff like the above.

First off, I never gave medical advice. I said to find a doctor you like and that there are a lot of psychiatrist out there that too readily prescribe drugs. He posted in agreement.

Look man, I mean no ill will. I'm trying to educate here, not start fights. I've spent years trying to wrap my head around these psychedelic drugs because I could never understand how things that have personally helped me so much carry so much social stigma. I was pretty surprised when I started reading book after book on the history of these drugs that they had so many former medicinal uses. I still fail to see how that is nuts. I have an anxiety disorder. I know what you're talking about from first hand experience.

All I'm saying is there's many things that can contribute to an anxiety disorder. I absolutely cannot take anymore than very small doses of caffeine. It bugs me out so bad that I am a completely different person. My anxiety spirals out of control and I feel like I'm on the verge of a panic attack. If I drink even as much as 2 cups of coffee it feels like I'm about to black out. I am being dead serious here. You're different, I get that, I never said my experiences were typical. In fact I've never met someone as affected by caffeine as I am, I can't explain it, it's just the chemistry of my body. I can also say for a fact that LSD or mushrooms don't contribute to my anxiety at all. I find them to be extremely therapeutic in moderation, in a controlled setting. I don't use either drug anywhere close to habitually though. My point was never that LSD could not contribute to one, it's that different things will contribute to different people. If you were to tell me one of those drugs contributes to my anxiety disorder you'd be wrong.

Another thing is, it seems like a lot of people are taking away from my posts that I advocated he drop everything and drop acid or eat mushrooms. I don't know where that came from. If you go back and re-read my original post I suggested at least 3 things to try before drugs. I even explicitly said not to try drugs first. I said to not even consider something like LSD or mushrooms until you are very comfortable with your mind. I don't consider that irresponsible in the least. Everything I suggested was grounded in fact.

And for the record, I hate that Timothy Leary probably did irreparable damage to the chances of LSD ever being properly used. He used his own positive experiences with a drug and made it seem like it was the key to life. Now that you could argue was irresponsible.

Check out MAPS (http://maps.org/). Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies if you want to learn more about this stuff.

[thomas]

Well I was never going to try any of the mind altering drugs, since I've never wanted to try any but I was still reading into it since it is interesting. I used to smoke pot when I was younger, but I never really liked it so I stopped.

[Guest baseball]

Hey man, sorry I hijacked your thread kind of. I really didn't intend to. I probably should have just left my last suggestions out.

Anyway, I'm not sure if you caught this if my original post, but I find brain wave therapy in conjunction with breathing exercises to be really helpful when I'm stressed or anxious. You can read about it here: http://www.brainsync.com/about.asp

I have mp3s for a whole bunch of those and would be more than happy to get them to you if you're interested.

[jayeffscene]

Hey man, sorry I hijacked your thread kind of. I really didn't intend to. I probably should have just left my last suggestions out.

Anyway, I'm not sure if you caught this if my original post, but I find brain wave therapy in conjunction with breathing exercises to be really helpful when I'm stressed or anxious. You can read about it here: http://www.brainsync.com/about.asp

I have mp3s for a whole bunch of those and would be more than happy to get them to you if you're interested.

I also have a bunch of things similar to these. They're called iDoser and come in a bunch of different...uhm...ear flavors. Check out i-doser.com and if you're interested I can send you some of the files.

[danthemjfan23]

hey thomas,

i'm pretty new to the vc board as far as posting goes, but i've been lurking for a number of months now and it really is apparent how close-knit a group it is (for the most part) on here. it's really cool that you can recognize that, too, and that even if things aren't going the way you want them to in your real day-to-day life, you understand that everybody on this board is here for you.

i don't know you, and i'm not going to pretend that i do, but i went through a time a couple years ago where i had the same questions as you are having right now. my situation wasn't as severe as yours seems to be, but it was along the same lines and i had the same concerns about my future and relying on parents and not knowing what i wanted out of life and all this same stuff.

i talked about it with a couple friends who i really trusted (that's the best advice i can give you to start) and they all told me a bunch of stuff that didn't help at all. why is that good advice then? you might ask... well it gets you to really think about the problems you are having and when you can vocalize actual feelings as to WHY you aren't doing well instead of just having the mindset "i'm not happy", you're at least taking steps in the right direction.

my next advice would be that once you can visualize what is making you unhappy, try to eliminate those things from your life. what are you majoring in at school? there had to have been some reason you initially chose that to study. if that initial reason was "my mom and dad wanted me to become a _________", then that's probably not a good thing. if you decided to study zoology, for example, because you really love animals (i'm just using that as a generic example, just stay with me), then get back into that. i'm not saying go back to school right now because that would be too big of a life adjustment for you it seems at this point. but slowly start regaining your love for whatever you decided to study in the first place, and you would be surprised how quickly things will turn around in that regard.

think about it like this... when your parents tell you to clean your room, how much do you fucking HATE doing it? and how many times does it take 5 hours to do what should take 20 minutes? but then what if you want to rearrange your vinyl collection? you can sit there for hours and hours and alphabetize them, clean them, straighten them out, do research on the rarity of them all, list them, take pictures of them, etc... it's just because it's something you love to do, something you have a passion for.

you mentioned how anime used to be that for you but now you're not so sure. whatever it is, just try to find something you're passionate about. and i know, easier said than done, but an easy thing that helped me out was going back and finding all the things that used to make me happy when i was younger. for me, no doubt about it, it was alkaline trio's goddamnit. EVERY time i listened to that album it put a smile on my face. and it got me thinking about other things i enjoyed in music and in life and i was on my way. what is that album for you? or that movie? or that book? or that friend that you could always talk to?

find the things that were comforting to you the last time you remember being TRULY happy, and resort back to them. i know it sucks feeling like your parents are weighing down on you, but you are right, they just want you to succeed. i don't know if you've done this already or not, and i know it's hard to do if you haven't, but just sit down with them (either one at a time, or together, whichever is easier) and tell them what you are going through emotionally. they're not going to be able to comprehend it probably, and they're not going to know what to do or say, but they'll be understanding hopefully and try to at least help you through this time in your life.

things are going to get better, whether you can see that right now or not. it's going to be a while before you are happy again, but you will be happy again. and just remember, if you ever need anything, i'm pretty sure we're all here for you. all you have to do is ask.

-dan