dante3000 Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/presscenter/newsreleases/NR29-09.PDF Oh, I'm proud to be an American, cuz at least I know I'm free (unless I'm gay or if I'm a minority that 52% of any given population opposes on some "moral ground"). Fuck that noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travis Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 This is so ridiculous. I cant believe in 09 people still care if gay people get married. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgoodcore Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Basically they're saying its lawful to modify a constitution, based on precedent. I do not agree with the conclusion however. I believe Prop 8 clashes with the federal constitution. We'll see, I'm hoping they made the decision in the hope it would find its way to the US Supreme Court and be far more reaching than a CA court could accomplish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante3000 Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 Basically they're saying its lawful to modify a constitution, based on precedent. I do not agree with the conclusion however. I believe Prop 8 clashes with the federal constitution. We'll see, I'm hoping they made the decision in the hope it would find its way to the US Supreme Court and be far more reaching than a CA court could accomplish. It will come up on a ballot again. Still it does clash with the constitution on the right of equal protection. The opposed judge said it best, that this allows for discrimination of a minority group as long as a majority of the people agree with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whateverrrr Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 yeah, you guys can get married! ::five seconds later:: just kidding! This physically makes me sick. My closest friend in the entire world is a lesbian and she can't even talk about the supreme court ruling without feeling completely defeated. She is my fucking family and it is a shitty thing to know that because of her sexual orientation, we may never be able to plan a wedding that this "great country of ours" will recognize. Who are these people to say who can and cannot be married. This is a human institution in which everyone in our country is allowed to partake in as long as you're a straight? How is that right? god, i just got all worked up ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgoodcore Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Basically they're saying its lawful to modify a constitution, based on precedent. I do not agree with the conclusion however. I believe Prop 8 clashes with the federal constitution. We'll see, I'm hoping they made the decision in the hope it would find its way to the US Supreme Court and be far more reaching than a CA court could accomplish. It will come up on a ballot again. Still it does clash with the constitution on the right of equal protection. The opposed judge said it best, that this allows for discrimination of a minority group as long as a majority of the people agree with this. I totally agree. I think the majority opinion is totally off-base and wrong. The majority can not vote the rights of the minority away. That's exactly what happened and its pretty cut and dry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante3000 Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 One of my co-workers was one of the last people married (she was married the day before the election, even got in the paper). I can't even imagine how awful this is for her. I made a joke about it at lunch (basically about how dumb it is when straight people are fucking up marriage) and I feel kind of bad about it. I mean, even though it was supportive and her marriage will stand, it's got to feel so hard to be legally declared less than other people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtw88 Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Nobody is stopping gay people from getting married. A gay man can marry a gay women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamlikesmusic Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Nobody is stopping gay people from getting married. A gay man can marry a gay women. What about gays marrying non-gays? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtw88 Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 That's disgusting. Keep yr genes outta my pool, plz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drabley Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 It will come up on a ballot again. And if it passes this time, wouldn't that be effectually be the same thing in reverse -- a slight majority of a given population that opposes a minority on some "moral ground"? This is the very principle of our political system as we currently know it. Fact is, sometimes you're the majority, other times you're not. If you're not, you get the courts involved to interpret a document that was written with no possible knowledge of the scope it would need to encompass in future generations. If you are, you get the courts involved to amend that same document so that your infinite wisdom and moral fortitude cannot be questioned again. And the courts -- they are just as politicized, don't kid yourself. Sounds pretty futile to me. It's a wonder we still don't burn witches at the stake. Unless we, as a species, forgo the notion of religion as we know it (which is still how a vast chunk of society forms their moral beliefs, sadly) and focus instead on the broader concept of spirituality, we will have puny battles like these for the rest of our meager existence. I've said it before -- my two best friends are American born and gay. It pains me that I, as a resident alien with no ties to this country other than taxation, employment, and property ownership, have more rights than they. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casey Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Nobody is stopping gay people from getting married. A gay man can marry a gay women. +1 for remembering that ridiculous fax from a while back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainmorgan Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Basically they're saying its lawful to modify a constitution, based on precedent. I do not agree with the conclusion however. I believe Prop 8 clashes with the federal constitution. We'll see, I'm hoping they made the decision in the hope it would find its way to the US Supreme Court and be far more reaching than a CA court could accomplish. I hope it doesn't go to the Supreme Court in the near future, because I have a feeling I wouldn't like the result. I really doubt any of them have the guts to pull an Earl Warren on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casey Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 It will come up on a ballot again. And if it passes this time, wouldn't that be effectually be the same thing in reverse -- a slight majority of a given population that opposes a minority on some "moral ground"? This is the very principle of our political system as we currently know it. Fact is, sometimes you're the majority, other times you're not. If you're not, you get the courts involved to interpret a document that was written with no possible knowledge of the scope it would need to encompass in future generations. If you are, you get the courts involved to amend that same document so that your infinite wisdom and moral fortitude cannot be questioned again. And the courts -- they are just as politicized, don't kid yourself. Sounds pretty futile to me. It's a wonder we still don't burn witches at the stake. Unless we, as a species, forgo the notion of religion as we know it (which is still how a vast chunk of society forms their moral beliefs, sadly) and focus instead on the broader concept of spirituality, we will have puny battles like these for the rest of our meager existence. I've said it before -- my two best friends are American born and gay. It pains me that I, as a resident alien with no ties to this country other than taxation, employment, and property ownership, have more rights than they. Quoted for truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonix Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 God dont want no queer lovin. seriously fuck religion and let people be happy for a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fueledbymike Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 it just pisses me off how some people think its their decision to decide how someone else lives heir life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante3000 Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 It will come up on a ballot again. And if it passes this time, wouldn't that be effectually be the same thing in reverse -- a slight majority of a given population that opposes a minority on some "moral ground"? I'm not sure what you're saying exactly (so I apologize if I've misinterpreted) but if it comes up on the ballot and the situation is reversed (meaning gay people can marry) than it's not the same thing at all. A majority of people electing to restrict the rights of others based on "moral superiority" is not the same as a majority electing to allow everyone equal rights based on "moral equality". The first acts to strip people of their rights through force, the second has absolutely no negative impact on those who oppose it. It's not like we'll have to have less straight marriage to accommodate all those gay marriages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgoodcore Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 It will come up on a ballot again. And if it passes this time, wouldn't that be effectually be the same thing in reverse -- a slight majority of a given population that opposes a minority on some "moral ground"? This is the very principle of our political system as we currently know it. Fact is, sometimes you're the majority, other times you're not. If you're not, you get the courts involved to interpret a document that was written with no possible knowledge of the scope it would need to encompass in future generations. If you are, you get the courts involved to amend that same document so that your infinite wisdom and moral fortitude cannot be questioned again. And the courts -- they are just as politicized, don't kid yourself. Sounds pretty futile to me. It's a wonder we still don't burn witches at the stake. Unless we, as a species, forgo the notion of religion as we know it (which is still how a vast chunk of society forms their moral beliefs, sadly) and focus instead on the broader concept of spirituality, we will have puny battles like these for the rest of our meager existence. I've said it before -- my two best friends are American born and gay. It pains me that I, as a resident alien with no ties to this country other than taxation, employment, and property ownership, have more rights than they. I couldn't disagree with you more. The notion of politicizing of courts is silly. If they're moving in a more liberal direction its "politicizing" if they're not its strict interpretation. We as a society and as a species need to move forward. If that's tantamount to politicizing than so be it but in my little opinion its not the same thing. This isn't a religion thing, religion provides a lot of good for people. Problem is, and the founders actually saw this in their own way, it can't be included in governmental proceedings and rulings if you're going to have freedom of and from religions of others. And lastly, I'm with Dante voting in more equal rights for people is in no way the same as voting away people's rights, which is totally unconstitutional I might add. Frankly, this is issue is cut-and-dry. Marriage is not a religious institution in this country, Atheists get married. Marriage is a state institution the minute people got different tax structures for being married. At that point marriage became a state thing, not a religious thing and it ceased being something you could deny someone based on sexual orientation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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