ATTN SCOTT!!! RE: AP DRAMA!

[thedeadlyrhythm]

So you did it for shits and grins? I'm going out on a limb and saying AP has a reason for each and every person who's on the cover. Whether its to sell, to gain "cred" or whatever, there's a reason beyond doing someone a solid.

There are two types of bands we put on our cover: Bands we think that will sell issues, and bands we like. Frequently, those two types overlap, but sometimes, they don't -- we knew going into the AM! issue that it most likely wasn't going to sell gangbusters, but we believed in the band and the record, and thought they would reciprocate.

They never once mentioned the issue even existing. Not on MySpace, their website, anywhere. Their label didn't do any promotion for it, either (usually, labels make snipes--aka those big posters you see plastered all over major cities--to promote the cover). The band deemed themselves as too cool for AP and split, leaving us holding the bag.

But even after that, we still liked the band and continued to write about them. Until we saw this interview Tom did with Chris from Propagandhi, done for the now-defunct Blender (of all magazines!):

http://www.blender.com/blender-blog/76979/tom-gabel-of-against-me-interviews-chris-hannah-propagandhi.html

TG: I’ve heard that you aren’t a fan of Myspace, AP magazine, or meat. Which would you rather be forced to do: read 10,000 straight issues of AP Magazine front to back (no skipping articles and you have to examine every picture), answer 10,000 Myspace messages or eat one hamburger?

CH: I haven't seen a copy of that AP magazine since about 2004, but if it were anything like it was back then, reading it would be equivalent to committing suicide, so I might just cut to the chase and shoot myself in the face with a bazooka. I'm pretty sure we have a Myspace page that Todd maintains, so I can't really mount the old high horse on that one. Can the burger be made of people? I might eat it in that case.

Okay, so we know Chris Hannah is a misanthropic prick who has always said shit about AP to other people but never to us (I once cold-called him to try to get to the bottom of his beef, and he was surprisingly cordial--further proof that 99% of shittalkers will never actually own up when confronted). It's not like his remarks were anything out of the ordinary. But what got under our skin was how Tom totally telegraphed the question to make us look shitty. He might've been going for a laugh, but he completely disrespected us -- and considering we've been the only major magazine to consistently write about his band for nearly a decade, we took it as a pretty goddamn big slap to the face.

I'm going to get so much shit for this, but as someone who subscribed to your shitrag for 4 or 5 years, (inevitably being let down again and again by it's lack of substance) I'm going to go ahead and say that Tom Gabel didn't have to try to hard to make AP look shitty, because it does that itself. I think Chris Hannah's "misanthropy" is completely justified considering the complete pablum that AP churns out month after month. Coincidentally, I believe Chris Hannah and Tom Gabel are probably THE two most honest and interesting figures in punk rock music today. Frankly, if they shit talked your magazine that has like 90% ads (particularly nauseating was the clothing section, with $100+ jeans, etc.) and isn't really "Alternative" at all, well... Good.

[scottheisel]

There are two types of bands we put on our cover: Bands we think that will sell issues, and bands we like. Frequently, those two types overlap, but sometimes, they don't -- we knew going into the AM! issue that it most likely wasn't going to sell gangbusters, but we believed in the band and the record, and thought they would reciprocate.

They never once mentioned the issue even existing. Not on MySpace, their website, anywhere. Their label didn't do any promotion for it, either (usually, labels make snipes--aka those big posters you see plastered all over major cities--to promote the cover). The band deemed themselves as too cool for AP and split, leaving us holding the bag.

But even after that, we still liked the band and continued to write about them. Until we saw this interview Tom did with Chris from Propagandhi, done for the now-defunct Blender (of all magazines!):

http://www.blender.com/blender-blog/76979/tom-gabel-of-against-me-interviews-chris-hannah-propagandhi.html

Okay, so we know Chris Hannah is a misanthropic prick who has always said shit about AP to other people but never to us (I once cold-called him to try to get to the bottom of his beef, and he was surprisingly cordial--further proof that 99% of shittalkers will never actually own up when confronted). It's not like his remarks were anything out of the ordinary. But what got under our skin was how Tom totally telegraphed the question to make us look shitty. He might've been going for a laugh, but he completely disrespected us -- and considering we've been the only major magazine to consistently write about his band for nearly a decade, we took it as a pretty goddamn big slap to the face.

I'm going to get so much shit for this, but as someone who subscribed to your shitrag for 4 or 5 years, (inevitably being let down again and again by it's lack of substance) I'm going to go ahead and say that Tom Gabel didn't have to try to hard to make AP look shitty, because it does that itself. I think Chris Hannah's "misanthropy" is completely justified considering the complete pablum that AP churns out month after month. Coincidentally, I believe Chris Hannah and Tom Gabel are probably THE two most honest and interesting figures in punk rock music today. Frankly, if they shit talked your magazine that has like 90% ads (particularly nauseating was the clothing section, with $100+ jeans, etc.) and isn't really "Alternative" at all, well... Good.

Why would you willingly give us money for five years if you didn't like what you were getting? Seems like an extremely poor choice on your part. AP isn't for everyone, but thanks for at least trying us out.

Also, we've never -- never, ever, ever, ever -- had an issue with 90% ads. At our worst, we're 50% ads (which is still significantly better than most any other mid-to-large-sized magazine you've ever read). We generally hover around 40% ads. I feel like I've explained that 10,000 times before, but it still hasn't changed.

[littlejonnyhormone]

drama, drama, drama

[thedeadlyrhythm]

I'm going to get so much shit for this, but as someone who subscribed to your shitrag for 4 or 5 years, (inevitably being let down again and again by it's lack of substance) I'm going to go ahead and say that Tom Gabel didn't have to try to hard to make AP look shitty, because it does that itself. I think Chris Hannah's "misanthropy" is completely justified considering the complete pablum that AP churns out month after month. Coincidentally, I believe Chris Hannah and Tom Gabel are probably THE two most honest and interesting figures in punk rock music today. Frankly, if they shit talked your magazine that has like 90% ads (particularly nauseating was the clothing section, with $100+ jeans, etc.) and isn't really "Alternative" at all, well... Good.

Why would you willingly give us money for five years if you didn't like what you were getting? Seems like an extremely poor choice on your part. AP isn't for everyone, but thanks for at least trying us out.

Also, we've never -- never, ever, ever, ever -- had an issue with 90% ads. At our worst, we're 50% ads (which is still significantly better than most any other mid-to-large-sized magazine you've ever read). We generally hover around 40% ads. I feel like I've explained that 10,000 times before, but it still hasn't changed.

Don't get me wrong, there were a few cool articles buried in the wreckage, but over time it seemed to gradually get worse and worse. Plus, I was like 14-17 at the time. I think it was around 2002-2006. I'm still pretty dumb, but maybe less gullible.

I also wanted to share this excerpt from the NOFX interview from the April/May '04 issue of AMP:

If you could undo any one thing that you as a band have done, what would it be?

Melvin- Uh... the AP interview... (Laughs) Yeah, that sucked. They had so much good information, and they just used stupid stuff. They also wrote that we were 12 when NOFX started. That's not true.

That says a lot, I think. That AP issue with NOFX was a big deal, with it being their return to interviews and all, and especially since NOFX is so popular and revered. (They were also my favorite band at the time.) It could have been so much more. And I guess 40% ads is not really an issue, it's what a lot of them are for that bothers me. I guess I just wish it was more about the music, but what are ya gonna do.

[circlingvultures]

Why would you willingly give us money for five years if you didn't like what you were getting? Seems like an extremely poor choice on your part. AP isn't for everyone, but thanks for at least trying us out.

Also, we've never -- never, ever, ever, ever -- had an issue with 90% ads. At our worst, we're 50% ads (which is still significantly better than most any other mid-to-large-sized magazine you've ever read). We generally hover around 40% ads. I feel like I've explained that 10,000 times before, but it still hasn't changed.

Don't get me wrong, there were a few cool articles buried in the wreckage, but over time it seemed to gradually get worse and worse. Plus, I was like 14-17 at the time. I think it was around 2002-2006. I'm still pretty dumb, but maybe less gullible.

I also wanted to share this excerpt from the NOFX interview from the April/May '04 issue of AMP:

If you could undo any one thing that you as a band have done, what would it be?

Melvin- Uh... the AP interview... (Laughs) Yeah, that sucked. They had so much good information, and they just used stupid stuff. They also wrote that we were 12 when NOFX started. That's not true.

That says a lot, I think. That AP issue with NOFX was a big deal, with it being their return to interviews and all, and especially since NOFX is so popular and revered. (They were also my favorite band at the time.) It could have been so much more. And I guess 40% ads is not really an issue, it's what a lot of them are for that bothers me. I guess I just wish it was more about the music, but what are ya gonna do.

start your own 'zine?

[thedeadlyrhythm]

haha, I'm actually in the (slow, agonizing) process!

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

what a boring thread

[magicbulletrecords]

Scott - did you guys have to cut a bunch of comp copies to labels a while back? Haven't seen an issue in some months.

[magalvsr13]

im waiting for tom to start an account here and start fighting here, isnt that the inevitable part to all these things?

[jimmythescumbag]

what a boring thread

[tomgabel]

im waiting for tom to start an account here and start fighting here, isnt that the inevitable part to all these things?

You raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaang?

[nickheitman]

after reading this thread, i've come to the conclusion that against me! is still awesome and AP is not a very good magazine.

so why did i read this thread?

[tomgabel]

after reading this thread, i've come to the conclusion that against me! is still awesome and AP is not a very good magazine.

You sir, are a scholar and a gentleman. Send me your address for a test press of the new album.

[bruins4ever]

OMGZ ITS T3H TOMM GABELZ!

[oakland]

I'd rather have the ME of a magazine tell me his honest opinion about something than blow smoke up my ass. The first time I ever talked to Jason I had just written an awesome story about a band I thought was great. Jason says, "oh thaaaaat band. I know that band. I HATE that band." I was kind of stunned. He then went on to tell my why he hated this particular band. I disagreed with him entirely, but it's better than getting the whole "that sounds awesome, yeah they're great, send me the story and we'll see what we can do" bullshit you get from some people. Just "I hate them, no thanks."

And as far as Jason calling someone out on Twitter, there's an old saying: don't pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel. Right or wrong, it's not smart to talk shit about a magazine if you are a viable topic of discussion / ridicule in said magazine. That's just street smarts right there.

Also, I'll tell you why I like AP even though it caters to almost none of the music I listen to: Despite being a magazine meant almost exclusively for young people who enjoy a pretty narrow genre of music, AP still makes the effort to put solid, artistically valid music in their publication. And no matter what you think of "the kids" these days, they are the geniuses of tomorrow. None of the people in bands you like were born at a punk show. Haters crack me up. You're all like 24 and already sound like you're 80. "These kids with their funny hair making silly music. In my day music was pure and real and blah blah blah." Grow up.

[tomgabel]

None of the people in bands you like were born at a punk show.

You are 100% wrong. I was actually born at a Minor Threat show in 1980. Ian Mackeye cut my umbilical cord. Don't hate.

[oakland]

Also, we've never -- never, ever, ever, ever -- had an issue with 90% ads. At our worst, we're 50% ads (which is still significantly better than most any other mid-to-large-sized magazine you've ever read). We generally hover around 40% ads. I feel like I've explained that 10,000 times before, but it still hasn't changed.

To expand on what Scott's saying here, a typical ad-driven publication strives to run "tight," that is to say a higher ratio of ads to content. Anything under 50/50 is generally considered "loose" and a poor money maker. The ideal ratio is somewhere around a tight 60/40. For a good example of an extremely tight magazine, go look at any skateboard magazine. They can get away with it because the ads are generally as compelling as much of the content. It's all pictures of people skateboarding. But those things are absolutely FULL of ads. I'd be willing to bet they run at something like 70/30, which is nuts. Then go look at Alarm, which has very few ads. It has great content, but has a distribution of something like 1,200 copies and publishes quarterly. So there's a huge trade off.

Also there are plenty of music magazines out there to chose from. If you don't like AP get off your lazy ass and find a magazine that caters to what you're into. Why would you complain about the content of a magazine that isn't meant for you and you don't read?

[tomgabel]

Why would you complain about the content of a magazine that isn't meant for you and you don't read?

The same reason you wrote a short story in this thread...because it is the internet, where anyone can say whatever they want, regardless of how intelligent it may or may not be.

[oakland]

None of the people in bands you like were born at a punk show.

You are 100% wrong. I was actually born at a Minor Threat show in 1980. Ian Mackeye cut my umbilical cord. Don't hate.

I was in Minor Threat. None of that happened.

[tomgabel]

You are 100% wrong. I was actually born at a Minor Threat show in 1980. Ian Mackeye cut my umbilical cord. Don't hate.

I was in Minor Threat. None of that happened.

[devinr]

I miss punk planet.

[oakland]

Why would you complain about the content of a magazine that isn't meant for you and you don't read?

The same reason you wrote a short story in this thread...because it is the internet, where anyone can say whatever they want, regardless of how intelligent it may or may not be.

So it makes sense to shit all over the hard work of a bunch of people just because no one is stopping you? It's just that attitude that has left the streets of Rome covered in dog feces.

[oakland]

On a similar but not really so similar topic, I hate magazines that routinely print Q&A interviews. That is some awful, unimaginative shit right there.

[tomgabel]

The same reason you wrote a short story in this thread...because it is the internet, where anyone can say whatever they want, regardless of how intelligent it may or may not be.

So it makes sense to shit all over the hard work of a bunch of people just because no one is stopping you? It's just that attitude that has left the streets of Rome covered in dog feces.

Yeah, pretty much. Hard work? Really? Hard work is writing a new album knowing that every message board fanboy is expecting the next Reinventing Axl Rose. Hard work is spending most of your year on the road, dealing with icy roads as well as crazy fans and boring magazine writers who need an edge to sell issues, and putting on great shows 5 nights a week. Selling ads and writing about Brand New...not so hard.

[devinr]

On a similar but not really so similar topic, I hate magazines that routinely print Q&A interviews. That is some awful, unimaginative shit right there.

Agreed. That is easily the best thing posted in this thread so far.