ATTN LABELS AND THOSE WHO RUN RECORD STORES

[circlingvultures]

It's very easy to not hear about stuff on here. I miss stuff all the time. Also, I guess I can see how someone who only has an Lp or two out might not want to send a brand new record to someone they've never done business with before. Promo cds are one thing but I can see how vinyl might not be as practical to ship out to unfamiliar faces while still being a small label.

[thischarmingham]

Yeah CD's and CDR's have always been the standard so I figured that was understood. I'm trying to help everyone sell records in real world stores. Let's help each other out!

[scottheisel]

You haven't ordered any records from my label, so why would I send you one for free?

Now what the balls are you talking about? If you have a label I had no idea. Maybe if you sent me something to take a gander at....I'll even do you one better than you do me. If you say I like some shitty music (which is true) I won't ban your records from being sold or talked about in my store. Sound good?

Steve, the point I'm trying to make is you, as a record store owner, need to take an active role in discovering new music on your own. Don't expect labels to service you with free CDs and vinyl. I get probably half of my promos at my day job via MP3 (or worse, streaming audio) -- it sucks, but I totally understand because it saves small labels sooooooo much money between giving away product, postage, materials, etc.

The idea of having record store owners list their addresses because they want promos is kind of silly. Obviously, record stores want promo product, because best-case scenario, they get free music they like, and worst-case scenario, they sell the product to their customers and make 100% profit.

There is a local record store here in Cleveland I am extremely loyal to called My Mind's Eye, but recently, I've gotten pretty bummed out when I asked the owner what his thoughts were on the new LCD Soundsystem, Sleigh Bells and Dead Weather records. His response? "The label didn't send me a promo, so I have no idea if it's good or not." He's saying this to me as he surfs the internet. In today's day and age, virtually all even remotely hyped records are streamed online prior to their release, whether it's MySpace or NPR or Punknews or onlymymomreadsmyblog.net. How do record store owners not check new stuff out when the music is there literally at their fingertips? Wouldn't it make you a better store owner to, I don't know, stay in touch with what your clientele is talking about and listening to?

I used to work for a record store when I was in high school. When Saves The Day's "Through Being Cool" came out, I tried convincing the owner to stock it. He had never heard of the band, and passed on my recommendation. We had special orders for that CD every week for probably 2-3 months before he finally ate his hat and agreed to stock it in the store. I wasn't surprised when the place closed a little over a year later; if you as a record store owner aren't taking the time to stay on top of shit, then get the fuck out.

[thischarmingham]

Now what the balls are you talking about? If you have a label I had no idea. Maybe if you sent me something to take a gander at....I'll even do you one better than you do me. If you say I like some shitty music (which is true) I won't ban your records from being sold or talked about in my store. Sound good?

Steve, the point I'm trying to make is you, as a record store owner, need to take an active role in discovering new music on your own. Don't expect labels to service you with free CDs and vinyl. I get probably half of my promos at my day job via MP3 (or worse, streaming audio) -- it sucks, but I totally understand because it saves small labels sooooooo much money between giving away product, postage, materials, etc.

The idea of having record store owners list their addresses because they want promos is kind of silly. Obviously, record stores want promo product, because best-case scenario, they get free music they like, and worst-case scenario, they sell the product to their customers and make 100% profit.

There is a local record store here in Cleveland I am extremely loyal to called My Mind's Eye, but recently, I've gotten pretty bummed out when I asked the owner what his thoughts were on the new LCD Soundsystem, Sleigh Bells and Dead Weather records. His response? "The label didn't send me a promo, so I have no idea if it's good or not." He's saying this to me as he surfs the internet. In today's day and age, virtually all even remotely hyped records are streamed online prior to their release, whether it's MySpace or NPR or Punknews or onlymymomreadsmyblog.net. How do record store owners not check new stuff out when the music is there literally at their fingertips? Wouldn't it make you a better store owner to, I don't know, stay in touch with what your clientele is talking about and listening to?

I used to work for a record store when I was in high school. When Saves The Day's "Through Being Cool" came out, I tried convincing the owner to stock it. He had never heard of the band, and passed on my recommendation. We had special orders for that CD every week for probably 2-3 months before he finally ate his hat and agreed to stock it in the store. I wasn't surprised when the place closed a little over a year later; if you as a record store owner aren't taking the time to stay on top of shit, then get the fuck out.

Well scott as I said in the opening post...I try to keep up with as much as I physically can. I'd be a great help if the labels would help the stores sell their records by sending some promos. I get hundreds of different titles in a month. I work about 7 days a week most weeks and if I could avoid figuring out where to illegally download these records by having a label send me a copy that'd be a great help to me. So I don't plan on taking your advice and "get the fuck out". I don't know what your boss was like but you know there's a lot that goes in to running a store. More than listening and downloading music. It takes up a lot of time. I don't think it's fucked to ask for a label to send a promo if they can. I find it so bizzare that people view this request as ridiculous. Do you know how many different sorts of businesses are built on the fact they send samples? The record business is no different. They help sales on every level. Where's the complaint?

[sunna]

well here's my info if it does any good:

Lunchbox Records

1419-A Central Ave

Charlotte, NC 28205

I agree with everything Steve has said.

I've had many days like his where people ask me what something sounds like and I tell them I don't know and then they leave. This is the most frustrating when you buy direct from a label and they still don't send you something to play in the store. I could care less if labels ever send me posters, I'd much rather have something to play to recommend people. I also work 7 days a week and have for the last 4. 5 years and really don't have the time to go download everything to play for people. I have a shitty old computer that doesn't handle that well anyway, plus if someone just wants to listen to the album on their own (with headphones) you need a copy that they can listen to. I can't just hand them my work computer. I do write distributors and labels about certain releases for play copies too, but it largely goes ignored. I've written Domino Records a bunch of times over the years to send stuff since I sell a ton of their releases. They don't send anything or send a poster. Meanwhile, the CD Warehouse down the street that doesn't even stock new product gets promos from them and then sells them to me!

There's a reason a lot of bands and labels get bigger and part of that is promotion. There's a reason why my store sells a lot of indie rock - because those labels generally send things to play in the store. I mostly wish punk labels would realize the advantages of this though. My store is in a city of 1.5 million people with only one other store that sells punk music and that store is overpriced and pretty much only carries punk cds. I've had hundreds of punk bands play in my store as well and have made it a point to keep stocking lots of punk even when it's not been in my best financial interest. So whatever little support I can get to help sell a labels records is great.

It's also weird that labels will willingly send out tons of play copies to blogs and zines but don't care about stores anymore. Especially when that's labels bands play in your store all of the time, which has happened numerous times. When I worked in a giant store years ago it would be 100% unheard of to let a band play in your store when you don't even have a play copy.

Anyway, not trying to bitch in here. Thanks to the labels that do send me stuff.

[sunna]

oh yeah - major labels are the worst about the poster thing though. I probably got 100 MGMT posters, some window stickers, a foamboard, and some other shit but not one play copy

[thischarmingham]

Thank you Sunna. Fucking thank you.

[Guest markovianprocess]

I'm not sure why people are so against this as what is being asked for seems so completely reasonable. A play copy would be nice ideally, even if they don't do promo versions because of the cost involved, wouldn't a CDR (with a basic sleeve) of the album suffice?

I've bought loads of albums from record shops because they have been playing in the store. I've bought records based on the fact that people in stores have recommended them. Surely the only way for these transactions to have happened is for the labels to have provided the stores with some sort of play copy, or another way to play the release in the store.

[hickey]

I bought an LP in Steve's store based on a recommendation he made. He had heard that record (Happy Birthday) by receiving a promo. I love that record. He made a sale and Sub Pop/Happy Birthday also get a sale. And I got a great record I never would have considered otherwise. Who loses?

Sure, the label takes a risk sending out promo product, but the label already took a considerable risk pressing the record, so what's a little more effort/money if it could result in sales. If you have faith in the product you put out, it should be a non issue.

[ihprstl]

That's why I'm trying to put together something here so people can target instead of blanket. You'd figure if a store posted their info on here they'd probably be worth while to send material too. I guess I fucked up though. Behind the times apparently.

Two in the box ready to go. We be fast they be slow.

I watched that last weekend.

[qotsa909]

oh, to have a record store (other than HMV, which doesn't stock vinyl) in my city!

[porchlight]

Sending promos to record stores is a win/win situation. Your label/band gets heard and maybe sells albums. At my store at least a few people every day ask "What is this playing?". Then they buy a record here or go home and research it. A ton of the stuff I play in here comes from promos sent in the mail.

No one can know all the music in the world, regardless of how in tooouch you are.

[Guest afsdan]

wow Scott, wow. some grade-A idiot shit right there

sending a CDR or even a CD (OMG! pennies flying out the door!) does not make a store rich from selling these promos. but it does get your band/label/music out there.

I assume you get shit sent free for the toilet paper we call AP?

[scottheisel]

wow Scott, wow. some grade-A idiot shit right there

sending a CDR or even a CD (OMG! pennies flying out the door!) does not make a store rich from selling these promos. but it does get your band/label/music out there.

I assume you get shit sent free for the toilet paper we call AP?

Thanks for the insults!

And you're right, CD-Rs cost pennies on the dollar -- so why wouldn't a local record store owner accept digital downloads of new music from a fledgling label (especially a vinyl-only label, as many of the upstarts whose owners post on VC, including my own label, are) and then burn it themselves? The business standing to make the most money out of selling records in a store is the store, not the label. They can afford the incredibly minor expense; for many of us who are trying to run "bedroom" labels in our spare time, we can't (nor do we have the time to mail out 200+ promos to stores all over America with the blind hope that maybe the owner won't just dump it in the cut-out bin).

[porchlight]

If you can't afford to do it, then don't! Most labels set aside money specifically for promos because in the end it increases sales for them.

[hickey]

And you're right, CD-Rs cost pennies on the dollar -- so why wouldn't a local record store owner accept digital downloads of new music from a fledgling label (especially a vinyl-only label, as many of the upstarts whose owners post on VC, including my own label, are) and then burn it themselves? The business standing to make the most money out of selling records in a store is the store, not the label. They can afford the incredibly minor expense; for many of us who are trying to run "bedroom" labels in our spare time, we can't (nor do we have the time to mail out 200+ promos to stores all over America with the blind hope that maybe the owner won't just dump it in the cut-out bin).

Your arguments only make sense if the stores are saying "send us promos or we won't stock your releases." No one said that. You can choose not to send them, and then you won't be played in the store. Or, you can send them and perhaps get played in the store. I don't get why you're getting so bent out of shape about this. No one is forcing anyone to do anything or withholding services if you don't. The argument is that sending promos could potentially help sales for everyone.

[xjustinxschwierx]

I'll mail you guys promo CDr's if you want.

I've emailed Steve in the past only to see if you would consider picking up copies of the Olehole LP, as they're a San Fran/Oakland band, and never got a reply.

[Guest afsdan]

don't blindly send out 200 promos!

1-2-3-4-GO! is asking for promos as part of a targeted method.

[aarondanger]

I actually really like this idea. I know earlier I posted expressing my experiences in the past with shipping to the black hole, but that doesn't mean I'm against sending promos.

No store has EVER ordered direct from me. Doesn't mean I haven't stopped hounding stores to order direct.

No store has EVER asked me for promo copies. Doesn't mean I never send them.

Do that mean I run a lame label? haha maybe.

I honestly was going to send stevo a copy of my new releases this post just made me actually get off my ass and do it.

Lunchbox records is on my Best Stores in the country list. I want people who shop at lunchbox to buy my records because I feel those are the people I'm putting out records for.

So in short if I knew people would spin the records I sent, then I would be more willing to send copies.

[gabpower]

I will send promos to the 2 stores who already posted their adresses here. I think its a great way to let new music be heard and I never actually tought about stores. I used to send them to radio stations only.

This is a great thread.

[porchlight]

I actually really like this idea. I know earlier I posted expressing my experiences in the past with shipping to the black hole, but that doesn't mean I'm against sending promos.

No store has EVER ordered direct from me. Doesn't mean I haven't stopped hounding stores to order direct.

LIES! I did!

[thischarmingham]

I'll mail you guys promo CDr's if you want.

I've emailed Steve in the past only to see if you would consider picking up copies of the Olehole LP, as they're a San Fran/Oakland band, and never got a reply.

Hey man. I already carry the record so I assume that's why I didn't personally get back to you about buying more. You're not the first person to be maybe a little upset that I didn't reply to them about buying something and then just gave up on ever contacting me again. I get updates from distributors and labels all the time. If I don't need to do an order I don't send each of them a personal note saying "no thanks this time". I just move on until the next update when I do need something. So dont' take it personally.

[thischarmingham]

don't blindly send out 200 promos!

1-2-3-4-GO! is asking for promos as part of a targeted method.

No! You totally misunderstood. I'm a lazy cunt who just wants free stuff for my greedy greedy self. I know full well that sending promos will bankrupt small labels, which is something I want more than anything!

[flood]

i'd probably do it for smaller stores whom i know would order from me... i just got really soured seeing all my punched out promos, still sealed in shrinkwrap in the used bins, or on amazon like a week after i sent them... screw that.

[thischarmingham]

i'd probably do it for smaller stores whom i know would order from me... i just got really soured seeing all my punched out promos, still sealed in shrinkwrap in the used bins, or on amazon like a week after i sent them... screw that.

That's going to happen. I don't think it means you should stop entirely because of it. Believe me I understand the frustration. I also don't think it's reasonable to expect that every store is going to order directly from you. Especially if your label is distributed. Often times for stores it makes way more sense to do a big order with a distributor than a hundred small orders with individual labels. The records are getting in to the stores, they're just not coming directly from you.