j4m35 Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 i should add that vinyl trades/buys/sells are included in the WOULD NOT STEAL FROM ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mediocore Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I know you didn't say it wasn't stealing... My point is that on one hand you're waxing poetic about the evils of downloading music, and on the other you're rationalizing stealing local cable. Seems a bit disingenuous is all. I'm not waxing poetic. I was stating facts in my earlier post and comparing a corporation with a small punk band in another. It's not disingenuous. They sent the cable signal into my house and I was smart enough to plug the end of the coax into my TV. Simple as that. Rationalization is fun!!! : So if I was invited over to your house and was then "smart enough" to load all your shit into my truck when you left the room would I be in the clear? Fucking. sweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xfedaykinx Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottheisel Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I'd love to hear some of the owners of independent record labels chime in on this thread. I co-founded Punknews Records with Aubin and Adam from Punknews a few years back, and after only two physical releases, we're putting a stop to it (the label will be continuing in a different format later this year). We lost so, so, so much money from putting out a high-quality product that people chose to illegally download instead of buy, and we'll never be able to release a CD again on a large scale because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j4m35 Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 i should also add that i do buy lps and cds from bands i genuinely enjoy. christ, i buy lps from bands i have only heard a couple times but am interested in hearing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excessiveviolins Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I'd love to hear some of the owners of independent record labels chime in on this thread.I co-founded Punknews Records with Aubin and Adam from Punknews a few years back, and after only two physical releases, we're putting a stop to it (the label will be continuing in a different format later this year). We lost so, so, so much money from putting out a high-quality product that people chose to illegally download instead of buy, and we'll never be able to release a CD again on a large scale because of it. i'd actually like to know what they think too. and hearing it from someone whose had to deal with it, actually helps me rationalize downloading a little bit. i guess i for someone like myself whose never had to deal with the financial aspect of it, ... would a band rather have me have the music for free, and then pay for other merch, or would they prefer me to pay for the cd and then not have the cash to buy the more expensive merch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
counterfiction Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I'm not waxing poetic. I was stating facts in my earlier post and comparing a corporation with a small punk band in another. It's not disingenuous. They sent the cable signal into my house and I was smart enough to plug the end of the coax into my TV. Simple as that. Rationalization is fun!!! : So if I was invited over to your house and was then "smart enough" to load all your shit into my truck when you left the room would I be in the clear? Fucking. sweet. See, but your logical arguments always break down. I pay for cable internet and the cable company has the internet and cable TV signals on the same RG-6 (COAX cable). They sent it into my house. I'm not taking anything from my house and moving it somewhere else, I'm merely takng advantage of what they're giving me for free. If you took things from my house then it would be different. Bad argument, try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magalvsr13 Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 hey....i dont know if you guys noticed in all this arguing......but i hear that the gaslight anthem released an EP and everyone should check it out, i hear this band this band ROX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
counterfiction Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 ^^ ha, nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j4m35 Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 hey....i dont know if you guys noticed in all this arguing......but i hear that the gaslight anthem released an EP and everyone should check it out, i hear this band this band ROX. yeah dude i got both colors...SICK BRAH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mediocore Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Rationalization is fun!!! : So if I was invited over to your house and was then "smart enough" to load all your shit into my truck when you left the room would I be in the clear? Fucking. sweet. See, but your logical arguments always break down. I pay for cable internet and the cable company has the internet and cable TV signals on the same RG-6 (COAX cable). They sent it into my house. I'm not taking anything from my house and moving it somewhere else, I'm merely takng advantage of what they're giving me for free. If you took things from my house then it would be different. Bad argument, try again. Dude, there's no breakdown in my argument -- it's stealing one way or the other. Maybe the analogy isn't right on (and, let's be honest: po-TAY-toe, po-TAH-toe), but that doesn't take away from the fact that your logic is completely ass backwards. I personally don't give a shit if you're stealing cable -- that's your prerogative. But the fact that you admonish downloaders in the same breath is pretty hypocritical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hickey Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 See, but your logical arguments always break down. I pay for cable internet and the cable company has the internet and cable TV signals on the same RG-6 (COAX cable). They sent it into my house. I'm not taking anything from my house and moving it somewhere else, I'm merely takng advantage of what they're giving me for free. If you took things from my house then it would be different. Bad argument, try again. Dude, there's no breakdown in my argument -- it's stealing one way or the other. Maybe the analogy isn't right on (and, let's be honest: po-TAY-toe, po-TAH-toe), but that doesn't take away from the fact that your logic is completely ass backwards. I personally don't give a shit if you're stealing cable -- that's your prerogative. But the fact that you admonish downloaders in the same breath is pretty hypocritical. Agreed. Taking the free cable just because it's there to take is no different than me downloading an album for free because someone put it there for me to download or sent me a link to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slymer Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I tried to steal the new Gaslight Anthem last night, but no dice. In the meantime, I'll just patiently wait for my CD and 7". Yes, I do believe it is stealing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottheisel Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 People need to realize that in most situations, a band are not the ones who pay for recording/mixing/mastering of an album, artwork/layout of an album, production costs, marketing, advertising, etc. -- this goes for both major and indie labels. Labels cover nearly every aspect of the releasing-an-album process, and the only way they can make that money back is by selling records (unless they have one of those insidious "360 deals" with a band where they get a cut of their touring and merch -- I hope this never becomes the norm in the indie label scene). When indie labels go out of business, that means there's one less place for a band to potentially get their music heard through. Everybody talks about downloading music for free, but rarely do you do it for unsigned bands -- know why? Because a label is an endorsement. It's saying, "We think this band is killer, and so should you. Check them out." If you lose labels (which is what is starting to happen), you're going to lose that good music/bad music filter. And things will only get worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
counterfiction Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 See, but your logical arguments always break down. I pay for cable internet and the cable company has the internet and cable TV signals on the same RG-6 (COAX cable). They sent it into my house. I'm not taking anything from my house and moving it somewhere else, I'm merely takng advantage of what they're giving me for free. If you took things from my house then it would be different. Bad argument, try again. Dude, there's no breakdown in my argument -- it's stealing one way or the other. Maybe the analogy isn't right on (and, let's be honest: po-TAY-toe, po-TAH-toe), but that doesn't take away from the fact that your logic is completely ass backwards. I personally don't give a shit if you're stealing cable -- that's your prerogative. But the fact that you admonish downloaders in the same breath is pretty hypocritical. Your argument just doesn't work. Plain and simple. My logic is not ass backwards. I won't steal from an independent artist but I will steal cable from a multi-billion dollar company who is too stupid to send only the internet to my house and not cable tv. I'm not admonishing downloaders either. I'm just saying that it's stealing and people need to realize that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j4m35 Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 up tha punx diy baby i understand both sides of the argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
counterfiction Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 going to have to agree with Scott on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slymer Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I agree with Scott too, but it's not going to stop me from doing it. Two years ago I had never even heard of Lucero. I ended up reading an article about them and the style of music they played. It had me interested, so I downloaded Tennessee and put it on my MP3 player. Took it to work, listened to it, and was blown away by it. Since then I've bought every album of theirs, seen them live, bought a shirt, and will continue to buy anything they release from here on out. On the other side of the argument, I know people that have 100's of burned CD's in their car CD case and never spend a dime on music. It pisses me off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtz Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I'd love to hear some of the owners of independent record labels chime in on this thread. JP from Three One G Records wrote about this topic a while back. http://www.threeoneg.com/etis/forum/index.php?topic=1745.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirbypuckett Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I'd love to hear some of the owners of independent record labels chime in on this thread.I co-founded Punknews Records with Aubin and Adam from Punknews a few years back, and after only two physical releases, we're putting a stop to it (the label will be continuing in a different format later this year). We lost so, so, so much money from putting out a high-quality product that people chose to illegally download instead of buy, and we'll never be able to release a CD again on a large scale because of it. Bummer, I was super stoked to go to Best Buy and pick up the Somerset and Ryan's Hope records. I thought it was really cool seeing something Punknews in a major store. LOL @ dude for thinking it's OK to steal from a corporation but not a lower level company. Double standards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirbypuckett Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 People need to realize that in most situations, a band are not the ones who pay for recording/mixing/mastering of an album, artwork/layout of an album, production costs, marketing, advertising, etc. -- this goes for both major and indie labels. Labels cover nearly every aspect of the releasing-an-album process, and the only way they can make that money back is by selling records (unless they have one of those insidious "360 deals" with a band where they get a cut of their touring and merch -- I hope this never becomes the norm in the indie label scene).When indie labels go out of business, that means there's one less place for a band to potentially get their music heard through. Everybody talks about downloading music for free, but rarely do you do it for unsigned bands -- know why? Because a label is an endorsement. It's saying, "We think this band is killer, and so should you. Check them out." If you lose labels (which is what is starting to happen), you're going to lose that good music/bad music filter. And things will only get worse. You're 100% right and although you didn't state it above I am going to make the connection that you feel that downloading music is going to result in the closing of record labels. I will agree to an extent with you there, because there's not nearly enough kids buying records these days. ...the labels will die if they continue to follow the current standard business model. The times have changed and the labels need to catch up to the norms of society. Downloading music is the new way to obtain music. Yes, physical sales still trump digital downloads, but downloads continue to rise each year in significant numbers. The success of iTunes, Amazon, and eMusic prove that people are willing to pay for music. However, it is still not perfect and people will still download music for free given the easy opportunities. The online stores need to change a bit as well, because it is much easier to download a record from a torrent site or via p2p software than it is to get a 1-to-1 cd quality and DRM free recording from the aforementioned stores. Under their current system record labels are becoming less and less useful by the day. The Internet is such a great marketing tool that the only reason you really need a high profile label is to get your music in Wal-Mart and on the radio. It's the labels that need to change, because the general public sure isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
counterfiction Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I'd love to hear some of the owners of independent record labels chime in on this thread.I co-founded Punknews Records with Aubin and Adam from Punknews a few years back, and after only two physical releases, we're putting a stop to it (the label will be continuing in a different format later this year). We lost so, so, so much money from putting out a high-quality product that people chose to illegally download instead of buy, and we'll never be able to release a CD again on a large scale because of it. Bummer, I was super stoked to go to Best Buy and pick up the Somerset and Ryan's Hope records. I thought it was really cool seeing something Punknews in a major store. LOL @ dude for thinking it's OK to steal from a corporation but not a lower level company. Double standards? It's an intentional double standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirbypuckett Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Kirby, you're not going to beat me by using illogical arguments. I was a Music Business major, I know what i'm talking about. While it doesn't make me always right, it gives me a little more of a grounding in this stuff. What's illogical? If you are a music business major then you should understand that downloading music is copyright infringement. Copyright infringement /= Stealing When you say stealing it implies that there was a loss. Not all downloads mean that there was a sale lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
counterfiction Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Taking (downloading) something for free that you would normally have to pay for is stealing. It's both copyright infringement and stealing at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j4m35 Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 so you're just automatically entitled to stealing another copy of it then? Wow, what's your problem? I've bought 2 copies of it on vinyl, I just want to listen to it on my computer. dude...just buy a usb turntable...that would solve all your problems...because we all have that kind of money... /sarcasm ( ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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