Osama Bin Laden

[appletree]

debbie downer

[lonesomexloveus]

im not speaking for myself when i say it feels good.

last night i watched cnn as 30 people outside the white house turned into masses.

i immersed myself in twitter, at a time when there were a reported 4,000 tweets per second.

i watched video of students at umass celebrating the same way we did when the sox won in 04.

i watched john cena win the wwe title, stand on the announcers table, and let the crowd know what happened, with a USA chant breaking out within seconds.

i watched the mets and phillies go to 14 innings in front of a crowd of New York and Pennsylvania fans.

America celebrated last night. it felt good.

this may have been the tip of the ice berg- but everything you and that article are touting are simply the rest of the berg that we all seem to ignore as it remains under water.

no ones denying that terrible terrible shit has occurred leading up to this. but why rain on the parade?

i genuinely feel sorry for people like you. all of america did not celebrate last night, nor are they all celebrating now. that is the reality.

[appletree]

but this is like a kid scoring a goal in soccer when he is five and telling him it's not a big deal. raining on his parade would just be lame.

just let him enjoy it and as much as he should respect your opinion you should respect him, just for the sake of being courteous. if he wants to cheer let him cheer. who cares.

[Guest]

were not allowed to cheer, because its pointless, and people are still dead, and its only showing that were insensitive and ignorant.

[appletree]

in before the grammar police <3

[lonesomexloveus]

but this is like a kid scoring a goal in soccer when he is five and telling him it's not a big deal. raining on his parade would just be lame.

just let him enjoy it and as much as he should respect your opinion you should respect him, just for the sake of being courteous. if he wants to cheer let him cheer. who cares.

i really don't think that analogies about kids scoring soccer goals have any bearing here. mr. kite himself did nothing. he didn't kill a terrorist, he didn't plan a mission. he's just reveling in the actions of others.

i never told him he couldn't cheer/express his opinion, etc. he, however, told me to be quiet and quit raining on his parade. if he doesn't want to look at it from a realistic point of view - that's not my problem. if being a realist makes me lame, then i guess i'm lame!

[silentgods]

al Qaeda is a vast organization full of differing opinions, Allison, all of them were not unified under bin laden, but they did have to respect him. unfornately he was an inspiring figure to a lot of fundamentalists.

[appletree]

no it totally does. and you did not tell him he could not cheer but you said you felt sorry for him. really? you feel sorry for people like him.

i guess i will be cool and start feeling sorry for other people out there whom i think i am better than or whom i think are looking at the world in a fairytale way.

all i am saying is why not just let him be? granted i think it is a little much to set off fireworks and streak in the streets, but honestly i could give a shit if people do. if that is how they feel then so be it. people run around and set off fireworks for far dumber things. frog festivals, crawfish boils, casinos opening, etc. people freak out about so much shit what is the difference in someone shitting a brick cause the guy is dead. maybe they think it will change the world or something, hell if i know. although regardless if it will or will not just let em be.

well that is my opinion and do not get me wrong i see where you are coming from, i just felt it pointless to call him or anyone out who is cheering. i may think it is dumb myself, but i personally would not judge them or feel sorry for said people.

edit: i type fast and cannot spell

[silentgods]

did i celebrate last night? no.

did i feel good that justice had been done? yes.

that is the gist of what i felt last night.

[lonesomexloveus]

al Qaeda is a vast organization full of differing opinions, Allison, all of them were not unified under bin laden, but they did have to respect him. unfornately he was an inspiring figure to a lot of fundamentalists.

i totally understand that. however, i'm afraid that this will not be the beginning of the end of the organization.

[travis]

Im not out in the streets having a party but Im stoked they found and killed him. I understand that it likely wont change much for Al Qaeda but anytime we can track down one of our FBI's 10 most wanted people its a good thing. If people are compelled to go out and celebrate in the streets then let them do it as long as they arent acting like assholes and/or hurting people.

Also the widow that wrote that article is a off in saying the people here in the states celebrating in the streets remind her of seeing terrorists in the middle east celebrating as the twin towers fell. They arent even close to be being the same thing.

[lonesomexloveus]

no it totally does. and you did not tell him he could not cheer but you said you felt sorry for him. really? you feel sorry for people like him.

i guess i will be cool and start feeling sorry for other people out there whom i think i am better than or whom i think are looking at the world in a fairytale way.

all i am saying is why not just let him be? granted i think it is a little much to set off fireworks and streak in the streets, but honestly i could give a shit if people do. if that is how they feel then so be it. people run around and set off fireworks for farm dumber things. frog festivals, crawfish boils, casinos opening, etc. people freak out about so much shit what is the difference in someone shitting a brick cause the guy is dead. maybe they think it will change the world or something, hell if i know. although regardless if it will or will not just let em be.

well that is my opinion and do not get me wrong i see where you are coming from, i just felt it pointless to call him or anyone out who is cheering. i may think it is dumb myself but i personally would not judge them or feel sorry for those people.

sorry for stating my differing opinion. heaven forbid that someone would do that on the internet!

[appletree]

however, i'm afraid that this will not be the beginning of the end of the organization.

yeah fer sure. someone will take his spot. they are all fucked in the head in my opinion.

caveat: by all i mean the radicals wanting 88 virgins or something. whats funny is the word could have been translated wrong in the first place. it would be funny if they get 88 staplers. ok maybe not

ps: i was not trying to argue with you or call you out, do not be sorry for your opinion. it is totally that, YOUR opinion, and I do my best to respect anyone's opinion (minus the k$sha opinion)

[j4m35]

it brings closure to me, certainly. but it's not the end. you can kill the icon of the ideology, but never the ideology itself. it's a little bit hypocritical that everyone is celebrating, but i would be lying if i said that it wasn't at least relieved that this is one more bad dude, who killed lots of people, out of the picture.

the most unfortunate part of the whole people celebrating his death is, as i'm sure you've all thought (i haven't had time to look through the thread), is that this is exactly what fundamentalists do whenever there is an attack against infidels, both in the west and the middle east.

his death will bring more terrorist attacks, and the extremists will use pictures of americans outside the white house dancing and singing as fodder and rhetoric. OBL, to them, is a martyr, not a criminal. he's dead, but forceful american hegemony worldwide remains very much alive.

[mattisr1984]

his death is a huge symbolic victory for the united states, not a literal one - though i hope it will eventually lead to that.

i wouldnt have acted the way some people were last night but i wouldnt stomp on their right to do so and i wouldnt tell them that theyre wrong for it either. same to those that choose to be more somber or reflective. in short - a little unity wont hurt this country, if anything - its exactly what we need. and yes - we can be unified without "celebrating in the streets." it still doesnt mean those people are in the wrong for doing so.

[Guest]

his death is a huge symbolic victory for the united states, not a literal one - though i hope it will eventually lead to that.

i wouldnt have acted the way some people were last night but i wouldnt stomp on their right to do so and i wouldnt tell them that theyre wrong for it either. same to those that choose to be more somber or reflective. in short - a little unity wont hurt this country, if anything - its exactly what we need. and yes - we can be unified without "celebrating in the streets." it still doesnt mean those people are in the wrong for doing so.

[j4m35]

his death is a huge symbolic victory for the united states, not a literal one - though i hope it will eventually lead to that.

i wouldnt have acted the way some people were last night but i wouldnt stomp on their right to do so and i wouldnt tell them that theyre wrong for it either. same to those that choose to be more somber or reflective. in short - a little unity wont hurt this country, if anything - its exactly what we need. and yes - we can be unified without "celebrating in the streets." it still doesnt mean those people are in the wrong for doing so.

the point is that this is EXACTLY WHAT EXTREMISTS DO when they launch a successful attack. are we the terrorists now? is our terrorist attack now successful? celebrating in the streets over this would indicate that is so. instead, we should be celebrating after we stop advancing economic interests in the middle east. we went there to find OSL. he's dead now and all there is is talk of continued offensives.

where does it end now?

[silentgods]

no what really should happen is celebrating in the streets when we make advances towards peace as a world.

Cheer life, Not death.

[Guest]

the point is that this is EXACTLY WHAT EXTREMISTS DO when they launch a successful attack. are we the terrorists? celebrating in the streets over this would indicate that is so. instead, we should be celebrating after we stop advancing economic interests in the middle east. we went there to find OSL. he's dead now and all there is is talk of continued offensives.

where does it end now?

i agree with your previous post. you just articulated it way better than i ever could.

2001 street celebrations =/= 2011 street celebrations.

obviously, the day that the president of the united states gets in front of a camera and declares "war is over" the celebrations will undoubtedly trump (no foreshadowing intended...) some make-shift sunday night scenes.

people gathered last night, but today theyre only talking about it.

when war is actually over, this country will go on an all-out bender.

[ihprstl]

I'm curious on what we are going to do to keep Afghanistan and Pakistan from supporting/harboring terrorists groups if we start pulling troops out in July. They obviously never wanted us there and now that we completed our objective of killing bin Laden, we must start pulling out.

What is going to keep these terrorist groups, or new terrorist groups, from using these countries to rebuild themselves?

[j4m35]

I'm curious on what we are going to do to keep Afghanistan and Pakistan from supporting/harboring terrorists groups if we start pulling troops out in July. They obviously never wanted us there and now that we completed our objective of killing bin Laden, we must start pulling out.

What is going to keep these terrorist groups, or new terrorist groups, from using these countries to rebuild themselves?

american-led, nato-backed economic sanctions.

military incentive packages including US-made airplanes, missles, etc.

[suburbanargyle]

I'm definitely not gonna stomp on anyone's right to celebrate this for the time being.

I will say though, as a veteran whose life was definitely changed after 9/11, and as I work now on the civilian side of a community that includes many combat veterans, nobody in my world was all-out celebrating this today. It was more like "Awesome! Now what's next?". Gotta stay vigilant.

My favorite things about this operation though:

1. The fact that this knocked The Apprentice off the air for the night. Well played.

2. We lost a helicopter and had to blow it up instead of trying to fly it home. Basically we said "Here you go Pakistan, here's a big pile of trash for you to deal with".

3. More exposure of how untrustworthy Pakistan is. We really need to stop giving them so much money and aid. If we have a problem with countries that harbor terrorists, we should have a problem with Pakistan (and this goes back a lot further than last nights mission).

I'm pretty impressed with how it all went down. Also, a shout out to SEAL Team 6 and the 160th Night Stalkers. I've worked with both groups in training scenarios, and they are indeed complete and ultimate badasses.

[mattisr1984]

the point is that this is EXACTLY WHAT EXTREMISTS DO when they launch a successful attack. are we the terrorists now? is our terrorist attack now successful? celebrating in the streets over this would indicate that is so. instead, we should be celebrating after we stop advancing economic interests in the middle east. we went there to find OSL. he's dead now and all there is is talk of continued offensives.

where does it end now?

if you want to play that card, can you show me where last night american citizens were burning the pakistani flag? or the flag of any other country in the middle east? perhaps even burning a picture of bin laden? maybe chants of "death to bin laden" or "death to muslims"? afterall, as you suggested, we are doing the same thing as the extremists do - even though i don't recall seeing any of the above occurring last night like they do at their demonstrations. i guess its a good thing we dumped bin laden's body in the ocean - wouldnt want anyone to parade his decapitated head around the streets of DC!

in short, last night those streets were more peaceful than the last time the lakers won the nba championship.

look, i get it. patriotism in this country is fleeting and people in general are fickle and not always as "respectful" as they could be. im still not going to tell people they are wrong for gathering in a public location in support of our country.

[j4m35]

I'm definitely not gonna stomp on anyone's right to celebrate this for the time being.

I will say though, as a veteran whose life was definitely changed after 9/11, and as I work now on the civilian side of a community that includes many combat veterans, nobody in my world was all-out celebrating this today. It was more like "Awesome! Now what's next?". Gotta stay vigilant.

My favorite things about this operation though:

1. The fact that this knocked The Apprentice off the air for the night. Well played.

2. We lost a helicopter and had to blow it up instead of trying to fly it home. Basically we said "Here you go Pakistan, here's a big pile of trash for you to deal with".

3. More exposure of how untrustworthy Pakistan is. We really need to stop giving them so much money and aid. If we have a problem with countries that harbor terrorists, we should have a problem with Pakistan (and this goes back a lot further than last nights mission).

I'm pretty impressed with how it all went down. Also, a shout out to SEAL Team 6 and the 160th Night Stalkers. I've worked with both groups in training scenarios, and they are indeed complete and ultimate badasses.

i agree with you completely. i'm guessing we blew up the helicopter because of possible proprietary technology that, if the operation failed, could have been useful to other terrorist networks.

pakistan is a fair-weather ally at best, and at worst nationally abets terrorist cells.

[j4m35]

the point is that this is EXACTLY WHAT EXTREMISTS DO when they launch a successful attack. are we the terrorists now? is our terrorist attack now successful? celebrating in the streets over this would indicate that is so. instead, we should be celebrating after we stop advancing economic interests in the middle east. we went there to find OSL. he's dead now and all there is is talk of continued offensives.

where does it end now?

if you want to play that card, can you show me where last night american citizens were burning the pakistani flag? or the flag of any other country in the middle east? perhaps even burning a picture of bin laden? maybe chants of "death to bin laden" or "death to muslims"? afterall, as you suggested, we are doing the same thing as the extremists do - even though i don't recall seeing any of the above occurring last night like they do at their demonstrations. i guess its a good thing we dumped bin laden's body in the ocean - wouldnt want anyone to parade his decapitated head around the streets of DC!

in short, last night those streets were more peaceful than the last time the lakers won the nba championship.

look, i get it. patriotism in this country is fleeting and people in general are fickle and not always as "respectful" as they could be. im still not going to tell people they are wrong for gathering in a public location in support of our country.

celebrations in front of the white house over this is just about as iconic as they come. people who burn american flags, scream death to obama, etc are the extremists. do you remember terry jones? the pastor who was going to have a koran burning party? he is an extremist in the same exact way and FOURTEEN people, american citizens, died as a fucking result of his actions.

i'm NOT arguing for the personal culpability of the people celebrating in front of the capital. i'm not saying that they are going to be the cause of coming terrorist attacks. they are, however, going to be used through image and video to outrage those who worshiped OBL as a father of ideology and personal integrity. they are non-complicit, but their actions can arguably add to the free-for-all of hate that extremist americans and jihadists love so deeply.