spaceghost Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Hello everyone I'm looking for a little help with my table. I've had the Music Hall 2.2 for a little over a year. Overall, I'm very happy with it. My biggest complaint is inner groove distortion. I've checked everything (to the best of my ability) and the cart seems aligned, and VTA looks good. It's not all LP's, mind you, but a good number of them. My questions are, how common is IGD with this table? If I were to upgrade my cart, what would be a good option, with reducing IGD in mind? Lastly, I've never changed the cart, would it be better to take to a shop since I have no experience, and don't intend on swapping a lot? Thanks in advance, cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 1. Its not rocket science to swapping a cart, but unless you have the alignment tools, it can be difficult. If you have a shop that will order a cartridge for you, they'll probably install it too. I was just in STL a few weeks ago, there are plenty of shops there that can help. 2. The 2.2 comes with the MH Tracker. Its nothing to write home about, but it shouldn't be too terrible. If you were to upgrade, you should spend at least $200. 3. You say its not all records... is it your 180g records? Then your VTA could be off... Or you just have dirty records. Do you have any cleaning methods? 4. What is your preamp/integrated amp situation? If you have lower quality stuff, and your blasting your LPs... you'd hear your IGD more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaceghost Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 Thank you for the reply, ajxd. 1. I'm not really afraid to attempt it, other than the tonearm wires couldn't be thinner if they tried, and if I break one, I'd have to get help fixing. I do have a local shop in mind, in case. The only alignment tool I have is the paper Pro-Ject one that came with the table. 2. I've read good things about the tracker and it sounds even better after break in, save the IGD. 3. Some 180g records sound great, and I've noticed IGD on thinner records, mostly longer sides. The biggest offenders that come to mind are the Bob Dylan debut, mono re-issue, and the Capital vault pressing of Pet Sounds. Also, Feist's most recent record. I did update the table with the acrylic platter, and Needledoctor told me no VTA adjustment was needed, even though the mat isn't necessary anymore. I have a MoFi brush and an antistatic brush, but no wet cleaning method yet. My records are pretty clean, although I know there is more than meets the eye. 4. My amp is a Marantz 2235b, and I listen at a reasonable volume, most of the time. Thanks again, I'm just trying to learn all I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaizada Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 You would also need to have a VTF gauge if you were to setup the cartridge yourself. If you don't plan to change carts often, no point spending the money. However, if you are inclined to learn about these things, buy yourself a Shure gauge which is reasonable in cost. You have to be careful as to not damage those thin wires. If you can't do it with a steady hand, just get it done at a shop. http://www.amazon.com/Shure-SFG-2-Stylus-Tracking-Force/dp/B00006I5SD/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1361504696&sr=1-1&keywords=shure+sfg If you have a phono stage that let's you load the cartridge above 47k, the Shure M97xe is EXCELLENT and is the only MM cartridge I have. I think it is GREAT when setup properly. Not expensive either when they come up for sale on amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Shure-M97xE-High-Performance-Magnetic-Cartridge/dp/B00006I5SB/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1361504624&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=shure+m97xe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaceghost Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 Thanks shaizada So, the VTF gauge is to be accurate about tracking force, besides the recommended force? I set it based on the instructions when I first set up the table, but that makes sense. I willing to spend whatever, obviously I don't want to put a cart that over qualifies for this table, but there's just so many options! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbrh2001 Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Nice thing about having the Pro-ject Carbon w/ Ortofon 2M Red is that you can just buy the 2M Blue stylus replacement and just replace the 2M Red stylus. No need to fuck around with cart alignment, and you save about $50 compared to buying the whole 2M Blue cart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaizada Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Thanks shaizada So, the VTF gauge is to be accurate about tracking force, besides the recommended force? I set it based on the instructions when I first set up the table, but that makes sense. I willing to spend whatever, obviously I don't want to put a cart that over qualifies for this table, but there's just so many options! Accurate VTF let's you really optimize the sound. Cartridge and arm combination is quite important. It would help to understand what the effective mass is for the tonearm. Then you can figure out if the cartridge and tonearm are a good match based on the given dynamic compliance of the cartridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youspinmeround Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Nice thing about having the Pro-ject Carbon w/ Ortofon 2M Red is that you can just buy the 2M Blue stylus replacement and just replace the 2M Red stylus. No need to fuck around with cart alignment, and you save about $50 compared to buying the whole 2M Blue cart. How much difference is the blue to red? I have had a red stylus for two years now? Worth the 100 bucks more for blue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbrh2001 Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 How much difference is the blue to red? I have had a red stylus for two years now? Worth the 100 bucks more for blue? From what Ive read, yes. You can go 2 routes, buy the entire 2M Blue cart for $200 w/ stylus and sell your 2M Red or you can buy the 2M Blue replacement stylus for $150 and replace your 2M Red stylus. Considering your 2M Red isnt brand new, I doubt you can get anything close to the retail price of $100 for it, so Id suggest buying the 2M Blue replacement stylus and keeping your 2M Red stylus as a backup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaceghost Posted February 24, 2013 Author Share Posted February 24, 2013 That was my initial plan, too, Red with the eventual blue stylus upgrade. Recommended by ND outright. Then I read about the 440mLa being a more accurate (?) tracker. As I don't really want to swap around, I'd like to get it right and leave it be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbrh2001 Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 That was my initial plan, too, Red with the eventual blue stylus upgrade. Recommended by ND outright. Then I read about the 440mLa being a more accurate (?) tracker. As I don't really want to swap around, I'd like to get it right and leave it be. From what Ive read and I know its been discussed on here is that the actual cart of both the 2M Red and Blue are identical. Its the stylus that is different and a good upgrade with the 2M Blue. Ive also heard you could even swap out the 2M Red stylus with a 2M Bronze or Black replacement stylus, but since the carts are a bit better with both of these, youre better off just buying the whole Black or Bronze package instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 You can not replace black/bronze stylus in the red/blue body. They are different builds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbrh2001 Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 You can not replace black/bronze stylus in the red/blue body. They are different builds. Good to know, not sure where I came across the opposite information. Please disregard the last part of my previous post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 From Ortofon's site... "The 2M 78, 2M Mono, 2M Red and 2M Blue use an improved engine, which provides an optimized sound reproduction and a high level of sonic accuracy. The cartridge body used for the 2M Bronze and 2M Black is manufactured from Lexan DMX Piano Black, a revolutionary material which ensures high rigidity while eliminating unwanted resonances. The 2M Bronze and 2M Black use a special upgraded engine, featuring split pole pins with a silver plated copper wire." "2M Series styli are engineered for a tight fit to minimize coupled vibrations, thereby improving sound reproduction. The 2M Red/Verso and 2M Blue/Verso have interchangeable styli units, and so have 2M Bronze/Verso and 2M Black/Verso." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksuwdboots Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Hopefully he'll forgive me for speaking for him, but another user on here (tonyfranciosa) also has a MH 2.2 and upgraded from the Tracker cart to the Audio-Technica 440MLa cart in part do to it's exceptional tracking and lack of IGD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaceghost Posted February 25, 2013 Author Share Posted February 25, 2013 Hopefully he'll forgive me for speaking for him, but another user on here (tonyfranciosa) also has a MH 2.2 and upgraded from the Tracker cart to the Audio-Technica 440MLa cart in part do to it's exceptional tracking and lack of IGD. That is what I have read as well. I figure, if i'm eventually going to spend that much with the Red to Blue plan, why not just get the AT 440MLa right away and be done with it. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dethrock Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 I got a 2M red today and I'm really liking it so far. Good thing I have a shop here that installed it for me I don't think I could have done it myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrangerwithcandy Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 So, has anybody heard of an Ortofon red stylus breaking? Because mine did today and so far no one has heard of this occurring...ever. I've contacted the seller, Pro-Ject and Ortofon but none of their warranties cover this. Now, I'm left with the decision on whether or not to upgrade since I have to buy a new one anyway. I really have no business spending money for an Ortofon blue but if I plan on upgrading down the line anyway it makes no sense to drop $83 on a red just to buy a blue later. Any recommendations or suggestions are greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 How did it "break"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrangerwithcandy Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 How did it "break"? I have no fucking clue. I went to play a record today and the needle snapped. I've been on vacation for a week, this was the first time I've used it since before I left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 So did the diamond tip break off or did the cantilever break off? Got pets? Didn't keep the cover on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrangerwithcandy Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 So did the diamond tip break off or did the cantilever break off? Got pets? Didn't keep the cover on it? It looks like the cantilever. There's no way in hell the dog could get anywhere near it and I had the cover over the table but not the one that slides over the stylus (The stylus cover was jacked up when I got the table in). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannibal Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Never heard of this happening. Are you sure no one had access to it while you were gone? It just snaped off, or bent, when you set it down on the record surface? WTF? You do know you're supposed to set it down gently? Just joking. and sorry, I don't think i'd be in the mood for jokes if my cantilever just snapped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrangerwithcandy Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Never heard of this happening. Are you sure no one had access to it while you were gone? It just snaped off, or bent, when you set it down on the record surface? WTF? You do know you're supposed to set it down gently? Just joking. and sorry, I don't think i'd be in the mood for jokes if my cantilever just snapped. My little sister was home while I was on vacation but I'm 99.9% sure she wouldn't fuck with it. And it literally snapped off. I'm not worried about jokes, it is what it is. I handle it with kid gloves, and follow care instructions to the letter. No clue why the hell it happened, at this point after talking to manufacturers and audio stores the consensus seems to be it might have gotten fucked during packing/shipping. Either way, should I bother with a stylus upgrade (I'd probably just go with the blue stylus and keep the red cartridge, as I read in this thread they're compatible) or stick with another red and upgrade in another area? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Eh why not get the Blue stylus? But if there was an issue... The cart could be problematic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.