Value of a Record

[konk]

How can you say that ebay isn't a true indicator of value. Value is defined by what something is worth to someone. In this case we get an assigned monetary value to an object. Auction style listings allow for the market to drive the selling price and allows the seller to capture most if not all of the consumer surplus found on an economic demand curve diagram.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_surplus

Take the mean average of recent sold listings and you have an approximate value of your record; or you can go to popsike which has done all of the work already for you.

Compare completed jayandmarie 1 centers to lower BINs that don't sell.

[comesatime]

Sounds to me like you should go out and buy the Kurt Vile and then try to sell the Elliot Smith for whatever the Vile costs you.

 

Hell, I would GLADLY do that if more than 40 copies of the KV record existed.  I'd gladly pay $50 and keep the ES record.

 

Also, cool to have this kind of debate in terms of economics. Kudos to all!

[jipc]

Also, cool to have this kind of debate in terms of economics. Kudos to all!

 

Indeed. Im very much enjoying this thread.

[somethingvinyl]

My lack of training in economics aside, ebay, though a nice tool, still doesn't correctly reflect true value. It's only one avenue, right? I can sell plenty of stuff for less or more outside of it and create a perceived value based on my locale.

[turnstiles]

My lack of training in economics aside, ebay, though a nice tool, still doesn't correctly reflect true value. It's only one avenue, right? I can sell plenty of stuff for less or more outside of it and create a perceived value based on my locale.

I agree with you. 

There are so many extraneous factors with eBay, like time of year, if there is a possible repress in the future. I am selling some records right now that might not go as high as they normally would because people who collect records are saving their money for record store day next week. It's all subjective. 

[amnstypls]

an auction site with plenty of eyeballs watching for a certain product ('demand') is about as good as it gets for sensing what the MARKET is in any collectible. It is true there are confounding factors re: final hammer price, like SHILLING, and two people who get into an auction war-- good for the seller, bad for future buyers, when other sellers see that latter anomaly.

in other collectibles I 've been in, (and I've only sold relatively few records so far -- mostly private sales for the same or little what I paid to my friends) on my ebaY listings, I go with the titanium nads route: true auction, 0.01 starting bid and LET HER ROLL....the market will decide. it's been berry, berry good to me on GOOD, quality, low pop, high demand material no matter what the item is, 95% of the time. Sometimes though, you do take a bath on something, but that's life in the grown up world But I like the B/S/T board here and DF alot, too.

I might try discogs though; have found some good stuff as a buyer there. Just never sold yet.

I love sellers like you on ebay. I snipe and rape you regularly.

[mirrorboxer]

Nothing will correctly reflect the true value of anything; you are correct. What economics and statistics try to do is eliminate most of the variables and provide you with a figure that best represents your hypothesis (record value in this case). What ebay does is provide you with reasonable data to come to a reasonable conclusion about the market damand and supply and consequently the value of any said collectable.

 

When you have sellers selling low or buyers buying high outside of ebay, or other online marketplaces, that is called an uninformed buyer or seller. Would you buy a movie, CD, or book from Barnes and noble for 30% more in the store when you can easily buy the same item elsewhere for less? I wouldn't, but there are people who do because they happen to be in the store and don't feel like or know how to find a better price.

 

You can transfer that same uninformed status to those who write and use price guides because those are written by people, which is nothing more than adding another variable to the equation. The price guide writers are not a good representation of the market and do not account for things like repressings, time of year (christmas, rsd, etc.), band hype. Also, maybe some of you may remember the Beckett baseball card guide that was notorious for accused of price fixing? The writer(s) would raise the value so that the insiders could sell high and then they would lower the price so the insiders could buy low. These reasons are why there is no good way to value a record except for collecting hard data such as pervious sales history.

 

 

My lack of training in economics aside, ebay, though a nice tool, still doesn't correctly reflect true value. It's only one avenue, right? I can sell plenty of stuff for less or more outside of it and create a perceived value based on my locale.

[somethingvinyl]

Not that I doubt you but I don't know you, do you have a source for the Beckett scandal? I would really like to read about it.

Most of what you're saying makes sense once you expanded on it. I just don't know how I feel about it. A lot of old timers feel like ebay has killed the record business. Who knows? We'll need more time to see if an international marketplace is good or bad. Right now, my opinion is that, though it's hurt small mom & pop shops, there are more pluses than negatives. A lot of people can sell their stuff and many people have access to things that were perceived unobtainable twenty years ago.

[mirrorboxer]

I get the impression that you are one of the "old timers" that you reference.

 

I can't see how ebay and online shopping has killed the record business. If anything, having readily available product and information has helped the business of collecting and informed buyers. A small time business owner (mom&pop) is having a hard time keeping up with the changing landscape because they are unable or unwilling to change along with it. If they knew the value of their product, they wouldn't have trouble selling anything. But most of them are using outdated price guides and sales models. Back in the day most towns only had, at best, a few options for buying records. They operated essentially like a monopoly in which they could charge a substantially higher price. Now in our current competitive environment, where there are an endless amount of vendors, the prices come back down to fair market value. They are now dealing with informed consumers who are unwilling to pay 30% more for something that they can get cheaper elsewhere. And, as most of us know already, vinyl is the only physical medium that is showing signs of growth. You can feel free to blame mp3's and online streaming services for the decline of overall sales, not ebay, discogs, amazon, or (insert online vendor here)

[One Hundred Fifty-Two]

I get the impression that you are one of the "old timers" that you reference.

 

I can't see how ebay and online shopping has killed the record business. If anything, having readily available product and information has helped the business of collecting and informed buyers. A small time business owner (mom&pop) is having a hard time keeping up with the changing landscape because they are unable or unwilling to change along with it. If they knew the value of their product, they wouldn't have trouble selling anything. But most of them are using outdated price guides and sales models. Back in the day most towns only had, at best, a few options for buying records. They operated essentially like a monopoly in which they could charge a substantially higher price. Now in our current competitive environment, where there are an endless amount of vendors, the prices come back down to fair market value. They are now dealing with informed consumers who are unwilling to pay 30% more for something that they can get cheaper elsewhere. And, as most of us know already, vinyl is the only physical medium that is showing signs of growth. You can feel free to blame mp3's and online streaming services for the decline of overall sales, not ebay, discogs, amazon, or (insert online vendor here)

 

Retail locations in general are being replaced by online distributors, same goes for services.

 

Two examples:

Went to Dick's sporting goods for a running gps watch. The sales associate told me to buy it online because it was 10% off there with free shipping.

Went to my bank and talked with a personal banker. He said that he didn't have access to my account and the only way to make a transaction is by calling them on the phone.

[somethingvinyl]

I get the impression that you are one of the "old timers" that you reference.

 

I can't see how ebay and online shopping has killed the record business. If anything, having readily available product and information has helped the business of collecting and informed buyers. A small time business owner (mom&pop) is having a hard time keeping up with the changing landscape because they are unable or unwilling to change along with it. If they knew the value of their product, they wouldn't have trouble selling anything. But most of them are using outdated price guides and sales models. Back in the day most towns only had, at best, a few options for buying records. They operated essentially like a monopoly in which they could charge a substantially higher price. Now in our current competitive environment, where there are an endless amount of vendors, the prices come back down to fair market value. They are now dealing with informed consumers who are unwilling to pay 30% more for something that they can get cheaper elsewhere. And, as most of us know already, vinyl is the only physical medium that is showing signs of growth. You can feel free to blame mp3's and online streaming services for the decline of overall sales, not ebay, discogs, amazon, or (insert online vendor here)

 

At 32, not an old timer.

But I have been into records for more than five minutes. I admit to seeing change and some of it being good and some being bad.

The loss of independent retailers isn't a good thing though. Doesn't just effect how one purchases music; it changes the landscape of culture as we know it. If there aren't any more mom and pops, than we're just a culture-less community. Not just record stores, but restaurants (not chains), grocers (not Walmarts), etc.

Records are the only physical media on the rise in the past 5 years or so. It's a trend. It will die out soon enough.

I don't blame MP3's per say. The RIAA ruined music the late 90's early 2000's for going from having 12.99 CDs to 18.99 CDs in a matter of years.

 

[drds89]

I love sellers like you on ebay. I snipe and rape you regularly.

I see the 'like you'... because I have only sold 2 records on ebay.

 

I also snipe, many advantages.

 

Rape? how do you define, without knowing what the seller paid? 

 

If you turned around and sold this record privately to someone you knew wanted the record for X price above what you paid, say from a WTB thread here.... I guess you just outed yourself as a flipper... And wear the badge proudly, you now would.

 

Maybe you could post some links to your 'rapes' from the past 3 months from your ebaY archives?

[somethingvinyl]

Maybe you could post some links to your 'rapes' from the past 3 months from your ebaY archives?

 

I love this quote.

[drds89]

I love this quote.

 

my pleasure 

 

*crickets chirping* (waiting for rape links)...

[drds89]

silence is deafening, rape man...

 

one last bump, as we know what that familiar smell is ....calling BS, yep.