maneatingcow Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 The problem that I see with most of the pitchers you mentioned is that hey are lower ceiling prospects. Don't get me wrong I'm not complaining but most of the higher level prospects the Brewers have are lower ceiling guys. I don't view any of the pitchers you mentioned as an arm with All Star potential. This isn't meant as a huge negative, it's more just trying to view things objectively. Even when the Brewers have had a terrible farm system over the last few years they've done a good job of developing lower ceiling Major Leaguers. It's not a knock they still are developing Major League talent. The last few drafts have adressed this issue in a major way. Pulling down Kodi Mederos, Jacob Gatewood and Monte Harrison last year was huge, along with signing Gilbert Lara. That bunch right there are 4 players with near unlimited potential. Hopefully one or two pan out. This years draft they got a nice value in round 1 in Trenton Clark and I loved the Demi Ormoloye pick. (i know I'm misspelling some of these names terribly) My whole scrap it and start again is two fold. The Brewers seem to be drafting better over the last few years. So I am more confident that the Brewers would make use of higher picks. Honestly the picks aren't even the biggest deal its the increase in the Draft cap. That extra money gives so much extra flexability to sign elite talent in rounds 2-5. The other reason why I want the Brewers to kind of scrap things is that Gomez has to go at some point this season or this offseason, or else the Brewers risk him leaving for minimal compensation. When Gomez leave I don't see the Brewers having the pitching to compete so I'd rather just try and accelerate the minor league rehab project that has been slowly happening over the last few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maneatingcow Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Not trying to argue the same point over and over. The reality of this is that I love the way Baseball is set up. I loved the early and mid 2000's Brewers. Not because the Major League team was great or even good, but because I loved watching the Brewers draft and develop talent. That is what love. I love getting invested in a player like Orlando Arcia who I still remember when the Brewers signed him for a little under $100,000. He's now reached top 10 status on Baseball America's list. There have been plenty of mega disappointments too but that is still part of the fun of watching the development process in Major League Baseball. I was certain the "Capt'n" Lou Palmasano was going to be the Brewers answer at Catcher and he flopped out in no time. I also thought that Mat Gamel was going to be better than Ryan Braun when they were drafted. I love watching my Brewers develop a team that can compete for a World Series. They had that run from 2007ish to 2012ish. Now I'm ready to build for another run. The other part of baseball I love is that there are so many ways to win, each with their own downside. The Brewers need to draft and develop well and then can compete by bringing in a few free agents. Large market clubs can spend tons of money to try and remove the need to go through a rebuild cycle. Then you have clubs like the Rays and As that hired some of the best GMs and player personel people and you can try and just try and maintain competitiveness by constantly trading any player before he gets his first big contract. Baseball is the nerdiest most fun sport out there to be a fan of because off all the options for teams to be sucessful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacredheart Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Okay? Again, #1 for Milwaukee is not #1 for all teams, and I dont really put much stock in anyones "prospect rankings", its all subjective on who scouts/analysts see more than others. They do not spend equal time with all leagues/teams/players. AAA for Milwaukee is in Colorado Springs, which.. is almost as bad as Albuquerque or Fresno in the PCL in terms of pitcher performance. Jungmann also completely changed how he threw two pitches after finishing college at Texas, winning the top award for NCAA players that year, and getting drafted in the 1st round. Sometimes players just bloom late, and Milwaukee has a history of letting arms settle in a league per year, unless they're really performing well (Wagner went from AA to MLB for a start earlier this summer). Put Jungmann was never projected by the Brewers to ever be a #1 guy for them. He was a high floor, low ceiling guy out of college and even then still struggled. He was drafted in 2011 and is just now reaching the majors. I liken him to another Brewer, Mike Fiers, who came up late, supposedly was a "late bloomer", had a good 70 innings last year, everyone was saying he finally made it and was going to be a #1-#2 for the Brewers and then this year the league adjusted to him and he his walk rate went up, his K's went down and his ERA and FIP are just a tick under 4.00. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Put Jungmann was never projected by the Brewers to ever be a #1 guy for them. He was a high floor, low ceiling guy out of college and even then still struggled. He was drafted in 2011 and is just now reaching the majors. I liken him to another Brewer, Mike Fiers, who came up late, supposedly was a "late bloomer", had a good 70 innings last year, everyone was saying he finally made it and was going to be a #1-#2 for the Brewers and then this year the league adjusted to him and he his walk rate went up, his K's went down and his ERA and FIP are just a tick under 4.00. Right, im not saying Jungmann IS going to be a #1, but his performance has certainly made him look like one (granted small sample size/havent had to see teams 2nd time yet) this season. He was a #2/3 arm out of the draft, and as I said, up until maybe 2 years ago, the brewers were always rather conservative in advancing players through the minors, so its not surprising with the changes he made to how he throws pitches, that it took him until his age3 25 year to make the majors. I like Fiers a lot, but I dont know anyone who thought he was an ace of the rotation when he still has yet to pitch more than 120 innings. his K/9 is right in line with his 9.1 average though.. his problem is he's a flyball pitcher in a HR happy park, giving up 31 of his 39 career homers at home, so his ERA/FIP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just a normal guy kevin Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Jungmann reminds me of Elizardo Ramirez- another young pitcher in the 2000s who was never predicted to do much but was well on his way to becoming an ace on the back of his team's desperate fan base's dreams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacredheart Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Right, im not saying Jungmann IS going to be a #1, but his performance has certainly made him look like one (granted small sample size/havent had to see teams 2nd time yet) this season. He was a #2/3 arm out of the draft, and as I said, up until maybe 2 years ago, the brewers were always rather conservative in advancing players through the minors, so its not surprising with the changes he made to how he throws pitches, that it took him until his age3 25 year to make the majors. I like Fiers a lot, but I dont know anyone who thought he was an ace of the rotation when he still has yet to pitch more than 120 innings. his K/9 is right in line with his 9.1 average though.. his problem is he's a flyball pitcher in a HR happy park, giving up 31 of his 39 career homers at home, so his ERA/FIP Ohh man, that home run split is brutal. Coming from a Phillies fan, I always feel for pitchers who dont give up too many home runs on the road but get killed in their home park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Okay? Again, #1 for Milwaukee is not #1 for all teams, and I dont really put much stock in anyones "prospect rankings", its all subjective on who scouts/analysts see more than others. The big prospect rankings (Baseball America, MLB.com, etc) are not perfect and their projections end up being wrong in many, many cases. Anyone who thinks they can do a better job is fooling themselves, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 If so, I'd ask you to name five players outside the top 50 of Baseball America who you feel is are future All Stars and we will see if any of them hit years from now (if we remember). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 The big prospect rankings (Baseball America, MLB.com, etc) are not perfect and their projections end up being wrong in many, many cases. Anyone who thinks they can do a better job is fooling themselves, though. Absolutely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacredheart Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 If so, I'd ask you to name five players outside the top 50 of Baseball America who you feel is are future All Stars and we will see if any of them hit years from now (if we remember). I'd say that Baseball Prospectus does a much better job at scouting and projecting than Baseball America does now. Prospectus has a lot more scouts and usually have a much better back end of a top 100 as they scout more in the low minors than BA does so you can find someone who will jump up the standings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catalinacaper Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 John Hart literally picking up everyone's scraps. I know I'm biased but he's really showing a masterclass in salvaging as much value as possible from league minimum vets to stockpile other teams prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacredheart Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Are you talking about the Ross Detwiler signing? I dont really see that signing getting the Braves any prospects down the road. Every team had a shot at him and they all passed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catalinacaper Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Are you talking about the Ross Detwiler signing? I dont really see that signing getting the Braves any prospects down the road. Every team had a shot at him and they all passed. Maybin, AJP, Kelly Johnson, Uribe, Jim Johnson... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catalinacaper Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 But even Frasor and Detwiler make sense. Detwiler has great numbers if he's used as a LOOGY and Frasor is at least replacement level in a bullpen that's been anything but besides JJ and Grilli, who's now toast. Braves aren't winning this year, so why not take on all the reclamation projects? Already a handful have panned out and if they dont, no long term committment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacredheart Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I dont think any of them are helping the team long-term and they aren't going to be used to get the team prospects down the road. It's clear the braves are waiting till they open the new stadium to compete but none of these signings or trades are going to net them people who will contribute in 2017. It's far from a masters class, It's what every team does when waiting to compete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Shipping some records to an MA address on Lowell Street. That can't be a coincidence, right? lowell is a whole city in mass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catalinacaper Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Ian Desmond with his 21st error today. Think he gets close to half what he was offered by the Nats this offseason? Do the Nats even try and put a QO on him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacredheart Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Ian Desmond with his 21st error today. Think he gets close to half what he was offered by the Nats this offseason? Do the Nats even try and put a QO on him? His offense has been about as good as his defense too. Do the nats have anyone to take over? Can Espinosa hang at ss? I'm not sure a QO would get them anything, other teams might just wait til after the draft to sign him. Not worth the chance he takes it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catalinacaper Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 They will likely give Trea Turner a chance to stick in September/Spring, currently hitting .288/.319/.439 in AAA with decent defense, certainly not any worse than Desmond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catalinacaper Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Blue Jays are scouting Mike Fiers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Padres are a joke of a franchise to be talking about moving Kimbrel and Shields already. Nice run.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catalinacaper Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Padres are a joke of a franchise to be talking about moving Kimbrel and Shields already. Nice run.. http://grantland.com/features/aj-preller-mlb-san-diego-padres-national-league-west/ Really interesting article about the Pads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3arl Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Padres are a joke of a franchise to be talking about moving Kimbrel and Shields already. Nice run.. http://grantland.com/features/aj-preller-mlb-san-diego-padres-national-league-west/ Really interesting article about the Pads If the Padres didn't have the world's blandest, most boring uniforms, they might actually win some games. Everyone knows that a franchise rebuild isn't complete without some rebranding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catalinacaper Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 If the Padres didn't have the world's blandest, most boring uniforms, they might actually win some games. Everyone knows that a franchise rebuild isn't complete without some rebranding. I can't pick up on the direction of your sarcasm at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3arl Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I can't pick up on the direction of your sarcasm at all I'm really into sports logos, I hate the Padres uniforms and logo and color scheme. It's just super, super boring. I was hoping their revamp this offseason would bring some changes to their overall look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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