xxmartinxx Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 What's the worst, is there is no solution. Those people are never going to be happy until the get their shit back (and I can't blame them) and they're never going to win. They'll just use the only means they have at their disposal, which is terrorism, to fight those who have taken their shit (Israel) and those who support them (the US). I really couldn't care if those people kill each other in perpetuity, however I don't want to risk having myself and my family killed for supporting something I don't agree with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcm1610 Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 that's a terrible reason to refuse service. if they're gonna refuse service to people with certain names why not refuse service to people of certain skin colors? They should be able to do that too if they are that fucking stupid/racist. It's their business. If you don't like it, don't shop there. But then you have to go to Wal Mart (which is fine by me). Absolutely. I don't agree with racism, but if you're going to support free speech, to me, I don't understand how you can't support a private institution's right to do what it wants. Don't support it if you don't agree with what they do. There was the court case a few years back about a PRIVATE country club excluding women from playing golf or joining or something trivial, but the court upheld it because it's private, they can exclude whoever they want. This should apply to every non-public entity. You don't like it? You boycott it and influence them with public opinion or something. Don't force them with a law to do something they don't want, you know, like totalitarianism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgoodcore Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 You're pissed people were "ousted" by other people so you want to oust these other people? That's the two wrongs. If that's the "solution" you're going to fail because that's not going to happen. They have no right to be there. Let's say that some people walked into my house this evening, overtook my home by violence, and forced my wife and I out. You're saying that if I called the cops and they forcefully removed them from their "new home", that would be somehow wrong. Clearly, it's not. And the length of time they would be in my home would not change the fact that their violent occupation of my home is wrong. Yell it from the mountaintops and italicize all you want. You can come up with all the hypotheticals that work on a micro scale you want. Fact is this: millions of people who had no part of the "violence" against them or otherwise are the ones clamoring for the destruction of Israel. Millions of people currently living in Israel as Israelis had no part in the violence against others. Best I can remember from my history classes on the subject, Israel actually didn't have shit for an Army and all the wars they fought were defensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momentumlost Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Just Remember Folks: The Palestinians are NOT the Same Thing as THE REBEL ALLIANCE, Jackass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxmartinxx Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Yell it from the mountaintops and italicize all you want. You can come up with all the hypotheticals that work on a micro scale you want. Fact is this: millions of people who had no part of the "violence" against them or otherwise are the ones clamoring for the destruction of Israel. Millions of people currently living in Israel as Israelis had no part in the violence against others. Best I can remember from my history classes on the subject, Israel actually didn't have shit for an Army and all the wars they fought were defensive. If all the wars were defensive, then how do you think they overtook Palestine and renamed it Israel? You think they won it in a poker game or something? No, there were sustained attacks against Palestine. Furthermore, initially both the British and American armies fought to defend Palestine. Once both left the area (first the British, then the US), Palestine was taken over and Israel was created. Again, I don't believe the amount of people nor length of time they've lived there changes the fact they're there from very sketchy actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgoodcore Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Yell it from the mountaintops and italicize all you want. You can come up with all the hypotheticals that work on a micro scale you want. Fact is this: millions of people who had no part of the "violence" against them or otherwise are the ones clamoring for the destruction of Israel. Millions of people currently living in Israel as Israelis had no part in the violence against others. Best I can remember from my history classes on the subject, Israel actually didn't have shit for an Army and all the wars they fought were defensive. If all the wars were defensive, then how do you think they overtook Palestine and renamed it Israel? You think they won it in a poker game or something? No, there were sustained attacks against Palestine. Furthermore, initially both the British and American armies fought to defend Palestine. Once both left the area (first the British, then the US), Palestine was taken over and Israel was created. Again, I don't believe the amount of people nor length of time they've lived there changes the fact they're there from very sketchy actions. Sure but lets be practical. Fact is, Israel is one of the best nations in the area and based on population and the democratic nation that exists, non-Jews in the country will be the voting majority very, very soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokithelion Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 They have no right to be there. Let's say that some people walked into my house this evening, overtook my home by violence, and forced my wife and I out. You're saying that if I called the cops and they forcefully removed them from their "new home", that would be somehow wrong. Clearly, it's not. And the length of time they would be in my home would not change the fact that their violent occupation of my home is wrong. Yell it from the mountaintops and italicize all you want. You can come up with all the hypotheticals that work on a micro scale you want. Fact is this: millions of people who had no part of the "violence" against them or otherwise are the ones clamoring for the destruction of Israel. Millions of people currently living in Israel as Israelis had no part in the violence against others. Best I can remember from my history classes on the subject, Israel actually didn't have shit for an Army and all the wars they fought were defensive. You're not talking currently right? The Israeli army is bad ass and has been pretty offensive since their inception. I can't believe anyone would acknowledge them as one of the best trained military forces in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgoodcore Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 You're not talking currently right? The Israeli army is bad ass and has been pretty offensive since their inception. I can't believe anyone would acknowledge them as one of the best trained military forces in the world. Now, they're amazing. During the inception of the country they were not the same army. And say what you will, being surrounded by people who want to destroy you makes you a bit offensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokithelion Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 You're not talking currently right? The Israeli army is bad ass and has been pretty offensive since their inception. I can't believe anyone would acknowledge them as one of the best trained military forces in the world. Now, they're amazing. During the inception of the country they were not the same army. And say what you will, being surrounded by people who want to destroy you makes you a bit offensive. Didn't say it wasn't understandably offensive, just that they weren't defensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgoodcore Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Now, they're amazing. During the inception of the country they were not the same army. And say what you will, being surrounded by people who want to destroy you makes you a bit offensive. Didn't say it wasn't understandably offensive, just that they weren't defensive. To this point, outside of covert action all the wars Israel has fought were defensive ones; not to say they didn't go on the offense after they were invaded or acted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante3000 Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Hitler would laugh at this inane argument...That is if laughter was allowed in hell. Instead he'll let a sly smirk creep across his face while he's drug, face up, across hot asphalt and Sam Kinison (who is suspend, naked, in a harness) teabags him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxmartinxx Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 If all the wars were defensive, then how do you think they overtook Palestine and renamed it Israel? You think they won it in a poker game or something? No, there were sustained attacks against Palestine. Furthermore, initially both the British and American armies fought to defend Palestine. Once both left the area (first the British, then the US), Palestine was taken over and Israel was created. Again, I don't believe the amount of people nor length of time they've lived there changes the fact they're there from very sketchy actions. Sure but lets be practical. Fact is, Israel is one of the best nations in the area and based on population and the democratic nation that exists, non-Jews in the country will be the voting majority very, very soon. That's exactly the reason why we support Israel. It's our only ally in the area. And we need an ally in that region so that our oil companies can continue to sell us what we don't need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgoodcore Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Sure but lets be practical. Fact is, Israel is one of the best nations in the area and based on population and the democratic nation that exists, non-Jews in the country will be the voting majority very, very soon. That's exactly the reason why we support Israel. It's our only ally in the area. And we need an ally in that region so that our oil companies can continue to sell us what we don't need. Well actually they're an ally because Jewish people in America wield a decent amount of influence. However, if you want to continue down this road that's fine but its a moot point. You're as hard-line in one direction as the settlers are in the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxmartinxx Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Well actually they're an ally because Jewish people in America wield a decent amount of influence. However, if you want to continue down this road that's fine but its a moot point. You're as hard-line in one direction as the settlers are in the other. Your comment about why you believe Israel an ally doesn't make sense. The comment, "Jewish people in America wield a decent amount of influence", sounds like something those crazy "Jews control the world" nuts would say. I'm not sure that Jewish people weld any more influence than any other major religion in this country. Also, I know people who happen to be Jewish who also know that Israel has no right to exist. Jewish does not necessarily mean pro-Israel. Yes, I am hard-line reality. I guess that's a road you don't want to go down, which is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgoodcore Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Well actually they're an ally because Jewish people in America wield a decent amount of influence. However, if you want to continue down this road that's fine but its a moot point. You're as hard-line in one direction as the settlers are in the other. Your comment about why you believe Israel an ally doesn't make sense. The comment, "Jewish people in America wield a decent amount of influence", sounds like something those crazy "Jews control the world" nuts would say. I'm not sure that Jewish people weld any more influence than any other major religion in this country. Also, I know people who happen to be Jewish who also know that Israel has no right to exist. Jewish does not necessarily mean pro-Israel. Yes, I am hard-line reality. I guess that's a road you don't want to go down, which is fine. Whatever dude. Hard-line reality? That's just a bad joke. What you're saying is: I won't change my mind but feel free to engage in a totally fruitless discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxmartinxx Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Whatever dude. Hard-line reality? That's just a bad joke. What you're saying is: I won't change my mind but feel free to engage in a totally fruitless discussion. I have a very open mind. State how what I've said is at all wrong. I'm willing to hear. I've stated facts. You've stated opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgoodcore Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Whatever dude. Hard-line reality? That's just a bad joke. What you're saying is: I won't change my mind but feel free to engage in a totally fruitless discussion. I have a very open mind. State how what I've said is at all wrong. I'm willing to hear. I've stated facts. You've stated opinions. That's exactly my point: You think Israel's lack of a right to exist is a fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxmartinxx Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 I have a very open mind. State how what I've said is at all wrong. I'm willing to hear. I've stated facts. You've stated opinions. That's exactly my point: You think Israel's lack of a right to exist is a fact. They attacked and overthrew a sovereign nation. When Germany attempted to do this to Poland, it started World War II. Why is what Israel did different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgoodcore Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 That's exactly my point: You think Israel's lack of a right to exist is a fact. They attacked and overthrew a sovereign nation. When Germany attempted to do this to Poland, it started World War II. Why is what Israel did different? Who's they? And see this whole thing goes nowhere because you think that's a fact. That makes this whole thing moot. You can't be convinced a fact is wrong. You can't. Now, that doesn't take in to account your so-called fact is not such. I would venture a guess there's nary a person in Israel currently who was "attacked" or who did the "attacking." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokithelion Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 That's exactly the reason why we support Israel. It's our only ally in the area. And we need an ally in that region so that our oil companies can continue to sell us what we don't need. Well actually they're an ally because Jewish people in America wield a decent amount of influence. However, if you want to continue down this road that's fine but its a moot point. You're as hard-line in one direction as the settlers are in the other. The power of Jewish voters is greatly exaggerated. Our nation didn't start throwing weight behind Israel until conservative Christians really became a political force. They need Israel to exist for the apocalypse to happen. I fucking wish I was kidding, but I aint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxmartinxx Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 They attacked and overthrew a sovereign nation. When Germany attempted to do this to Poland, it started World War II. Why is what Israel did different? Who's they? And see this whole thing goes nowhere because you think that's a fact. That makes this whole thing moot. You can't be convinced a fact is wrong. You can't. Now, that doesn't take in to account your so-called fact is not such. I would venture a guess there's nary a person in Israel currently who was "attacked" or who did the "attacking." The "they" I refer to were Zionists. What fact do I have wrong? I'm begging you to correct me. Are you saying that there was no attacks on Palestine? How can you say that there is "nary a person who was attacked or who did the attacking". Obviously there are still many people who were alive and fought during World War II, therefore I'm sure there's still many people who fought in the Zionist fight for Israel post-WWII. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentgods Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 I'm just pissed off that Hitler fucked up using the name Adolph for anybody else. My grandfather was named Adolph (a very popular name back before the War and my grandfather was born in 1922) but say I had a kid and decided to have his middle name be Adolph. I'd be considered a racist because of the name, which is bullshit. even though i think Hitler was a douchebag. I mean come on Stalin was just as fucked as Hitler and nobody stopped naming their kids Josef did they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxmartinxx Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 It's a big leap to say that Stalin was as bad a Hilter. Stalin was a dick, but no where near the size of a dick as Hilter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentgods Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 uh, the great purge? the Gulags? It doesn't really matter. I mean really many people does someone have to kill before they're a Monster anyway. They were both fucking monsters, same with Mao. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xadamhudsonx Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 uh, the great purge? the Gulags? They don't teach that in school anymore. The holocaust holds the kiddies attention better.... Thanks Anne Frank! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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