steventangent Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I'm just taking a stab in the dark here, but did you vote for Ron Paul? edit : or do you plan to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axisofdavid Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Not an American citizen, but no, from what I hear about him it sounds like I'd probably be at the opposite end of the spectrum. I'd be one of the last to defend capitalist morality, but just think it's interesting that it's surely that which people are attacking mainly here rather than ebay per se. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steventangent Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Fair enough. He has a really vocal base of supporters in my city, and I know a few of them. And they're always capitalism-this and free-market-that. But yeah, right on. Better to try and just find things for a reasonable price. That feels a lot better, anyway. I unfortunately live in a town with only one store that sells records, and those are all "classic" used records. Need 8 copies of Great White Once Bitten? I can get you a fair price on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steventangent Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axisofdavid Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 haha, yeh, right now I'm living in an awesome place for record stores (portland, OR) so am less likely to complain, but when i went to the one store in my english hometown last, all i found was 15964198 copies of Rod Stewart's "Gentlemans Prefer Blondes". Trade?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melikecheese Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 ebay is a model of the free market system. Buyers enter the market and pay what they wish. When people say that things on eBay are "over priced" thats not really true. Yes, some sellers start the auctions at a high price, higher then the record was available for at retail, but if a seller lists a record for 5 dollars and buyers bid that record up to 100 dollars well then its simply a free market setting the price for the record. People will pay what they wish to pay. I feel that if a buyer is too lazy and or too dumb to research what they are buying or attempt to buy it at a cheaper price at another location then that it there fault for "over paying" on eBay. You cannot blame sellers for this perceived "problem". Sometimes it can be very difficult to track down a record, even with just using the internet. Some people might not care to be bothered with this hunt and just buy it off eBay for whatever cost because they have the money. "over-privileged fetishism" no way, just someone who collects things and decides what it is worth to them. I have been following White Stripes auctions on eBay weekly since early 2000, I have seen prices steadily increase with each album release. After White Blood Cells came out and everyone noticed them prices took a jump, then elephant caused a huge jump in prices and Icky Thump did the same. Now I didn't see anyone blaming the bands for this problem! What about them? When you have bands releasing 1 LP or 1 7" in 10 to 15 colors and limiting each color to 300 copies what does one expect to happen, you limit supply and demand is going to go up for that available supply. You have a over abundance of punk bands these days milking there record buying fan base of plenty of money. Does anyone not see a problem with this? If you can have a problem with a buyer spending more then what you think a record is worth surly you have a problem with bands who basically support and encourage this type of thing. What do the white stripes expect to happen with they decide that in 2007, being as huge as they are, they are going to release a 12" limited to 300 copies. There are still plenty of deals on ebay, if your hunting down the currently trendy bands then maybe not, someone mentioned how the costs go along with the artist popularity, thats a given, more people wanting 1 of 1,000 records pressed is going to raise the price. I just picked up a Ponys 7" limited to 500 copies for 5 bucks, that is a deal, that is no more then what the label would have been selling it for. I've picked up limited records for 10 bucks when other auctions closed at 30 or 40 for the same record, just gotta be patient and wait for the right one. Would I buy the White Stripes stuff I am missing right now, no way, I will need to wait 10 more years until the fan base slims down. On the topic of ebay vs record stores...I live in Columbus, OH. I have no less then 8 awesome rock n roll record stores selling a ton of new and used, old and modern vinyl, there is at least 5 other not so good stores in the city too. Even with all the great local selections I still buy a ton off the internet these days. Its just easier. I have even bought things off ebay from one of the local stores. Sometimes it is eBay of the record is OOP but its typically right from the label. Its always cheaper then a distro or the local store. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celebdeath Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 is the free-market something to be lauded? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melikecheese Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 is the free-market something to be lauded? Yes, why not? Unless you think its a good idea for the government to control prices on records, or everything! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celebdeath Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 is the free-market something to be lauded? Yes, why not? Unless you think its a good idea for the government to control prices on records, or everything! well, it can be argued that because of free market, capitalist-type policies, 95% of the worlds population lives in abject poverty and will never be able to afford the next Pearl Jam record that comes up on eBastards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axisofdavid Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 That spending a lot of money on records that can be heard freely/more cheaply via digital files = 'overprivileged fetishm' is merely my opinion re. the relative worth of things, and not one you need agree with, mr. melikecheese. However, when you say it is 'not the seller's fault' that prices get so ridiculous on ebay, you should bear in mind that this can only ever be no more than partially true; they are still fully endorsing a laissez-faire capitalist system and, although it is hard for anyone to do so in this society, there remain ways of avoiding supporting such openly capitalist morality eg. not using ebay but instead deliberately keeping records at distro prices (as a lot of folks in this thread appear to support.) The capitalist system doesn't encourage this and, if money-making is your only goal then you'd be irrational not to use ebay in the majority of cases, as it's generally the most efficient route to profit. Accordingly, the role of a lack of information on the buyer's part as to cheaper outlets can just be seen as adding information costs to the price. All well and good, but needs to be realised that this isn't unavoidable if both sellers and, like you say, producers make choices to escape it. Bigger pressings for bigger bands would be one way, yet surely if bands/labels are going for gold then it would make good business sense for them to do that anyway so that they're getting the cash instead of the 3rd party? As for the merits of 'free markets', only a basic understanding of economics is needed to know that no one wants a totally free market less than the capitalist. There are ALWAYS some regulations to encourage competition, and the relevant question is the appropriate level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraziermart Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Don't hate the player, hate the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronniethebear Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Dude, get that weak shit out of here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgoodcore Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Don't hate the player, hate the game. Oh common dude, get real all your stuff sits and sits because your prices are retarded. That Sunny Day Real Estate/Shudder to Think tour split for $29.05 has been up for weeks and I just got one for $8.50. I mean common, you're not playing a game you're just trying to catch dumb people. If you feel good about that, great but don't expect other people to pat you on the back. Yes, why not? Unless you think its a good idea for the government to control prices on records, or everything! well, it can be argued that because of free market, capitalist-type policies, 95% of the worlds population lives in abject poverty and will never be able to afford the next Pearl Jam record that comes up on eBastards. 95%? You think? I think its more like 50-60% I would say a good majority of that is in China where they don't really have a free market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skumbucket Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Our label monitors eBay, and we contact every "bidder" that is bidding on one of our readily available releases.In that we inform them of the release's availability thru our Estore directly. -J. seriously? that's fantastic. kudos to you guys for that, that's a classy move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronniethebear Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Our label monitors eBay, and we contact every "bidder" that is bidding on one of our readily available releases.In that we inform them of the release's availability thru our Estore directly. -J. seriously? that's fantastic. kudos to you guys for that, that's a classy move. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axisofdavid Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Our label monitors eBay, and we contact every "bidder" that is bidding on one of our readily available releases.In that we inform them of the release's availability thru our Estore directly. -J. seriously? that's fantastic. kudos to you guys for that, that's good buiness sense. but seriously, it works both ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxmartinxx Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I think this is true in some cases. Bands like Jimmy Eat World and Hot Water Music, I can understand how prices will fluctuate. But what about bands that are long gone? Mineral LP's are averaging $65+, when just a few short months ago, they could easily be found for less than $40. So I guess this truth is dependent upon the band and release. Mineral LP's are going for less now than they have. "The Power of Failing", which I sold for $3 about 10 years ago was consistantly going for over $100. I sold a copy of "Clarity" for close to $100 a few years ago. I sold a copy of the "77 Satellites" 7" for $100 many years ago. So that stuff is cheaper than now than it has been. Get Up Kids, too. I think stuff is at a median price on that sorta stuff and insanely high on other stuff... like records that came out a month ago and are now around $100. Insane to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celebdeath Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Don't hate the player, hate the game. Oh common dude, get real all your stuff sits and sits because your prices are retarded. That Sunny Day Real Estate/Shudder to Think tour split for $29.05 has been up for weeks and I just got one for $8.50. I mean common, you're not playing a game you're just trying to catch dumb people. If you feel good about that, great but don't expect other people to pat you on the back. well, it can be argued that because of free market, capitalist-type policies, 95% of the worlds population lives in abject poverty and will never be able to afford the next Pearl Jam record that comes up on eBastards. 95%? You think? I think its more like 50-60% I would say a good majority of that is in China where they don't really have a free market. well, 50% of the worlds children (a billion kids) live in poverty. 50% of the world (3 billion people) live on $2 or less per day. 13% of Americans live in poverty, 20% of UK citizens do as well. fair enough, it may not be 95% but its certainly a hellova lot more than 50-60%. and you've forgotten about india and africa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgoodcore Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 While $2 is crap, it vastly depends on economics. $2 a day could buy you enough food for that day or half a chai latte from Starbucks. I don't think a dollar amount is the definition of abject poverty. I think the problem is more an issue with the US and other "developed" nations ignoring the needs of the many for more selfish needs. I mean, the US could cure Africa of its ills if it put half the money it puts into Iraq. However, back to the topic, I do not believe eBay is something that affects that. I believe eBay and good bought therein are luxury goods. In general is a selfishness problem people have that has nothing to do with a free market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinyljunkie Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 that living on less than 2 bucks a day line is played out. if you live on less than 2 bucks a day in the US, yeah thats poor. but money is relative. when you live in a place where rent is 20 dollars a month, and having a thousand dollars makes you the richest person in the village, its different. yeah, its still skewed and it sucks, cause those people cant really traveil the world or anything. but just because you arent rich on the american standard, isnt necessarily as terrible as that line makes it seem. i have a friend who works in the US for about 2 months out of the year and lives with his mom, then takes his four or five grand, and goes to central america, where he lives very comfortably for the rest of the year, and he is one of the richest people in the village, and doesnt work. just spends all his time volunteering helping others fix houses, roads, etc. he lives in a 5 bedroom house. has a car. eats well. throws parties. all on like 7 or 8 bucks a day. which by american standards is ridiculously poor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinyljunkie Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 also not to be a dick to deathwish or anything, but i dont understand why doing that is so noble. i mean, the records are sold in hot topic for higher than the e store prices, to noobs to may not know anything about vinyl. they also trickle down to overpriced stores who double or even triple the direct from label price. obviously having someone monitor every single store and watch sales, is impossible, so why even wholesale the records out at all. why not just control all the sales on a direct level and sell everything straight from DW. are are we not talking about EVERY release on ebay, just auctions that spike to ridiculous 100 dollar levels when they are still available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtz Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 also not to be a dick to deathwish or anything, but i dont understand why doing that is so noble. i mean, the records are sold in hot topic for higher than the e store prices, to noobs to may not know anything about vinyl. they also trickle down to overpriced stores who double or even triple the direct from label price. They are just letting the bidders know where they can get the record for a better price, and at the same time bringing in a little more business for themselves. It's a win/win situation. Who wouldn't appreciate someone trying to save you a little cash. They obviously can't stop everyone from getting ripped off for their records, but every little bit helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgoodcore Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 also not to be a dick to deathwish or anything, but i dont understand why doing that is so noble. i mean, the records are sold in hot topic for higher than the e store prices, to noobs to may not know anything about vinyl. they also trickle down to overpriced stores who double or even triple the direct from label price. obviously having someone monitor every single store and watch sales, is impossible, so why even wholesale the records out at all. why not just control all the sales on a direct level and sell everything straight from DW. are are we not talking about EVERY release on ebay, just auctions that spike to ridiculous 100 dollar levels when they are still available. Noble might be over the top, I would call it price regulating and I think that's responsible for a label and it benefits them. I think its a great tactic. Directing sales they should get to them while saving someone a ton of cash. Everyone wins except people on eBay who benefit from the uninformed. Something I think we all were at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickbuysvinyl Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 i also think "noble" is a bit over the top. But i do think it is a great way to inform people and save them cash. It's no different than a car dealership telling you you can get a certain vehicle for a cheaper price at their dealership rather the one across the road. I'd love it if i could save a little cash here and there and I definately think its a good practice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celebdeath Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 all it takes is a little investigation...and as was mentioned earlier, patience. its up to you whether you wanna be ripped off or not. if you dont wanna pay top whack, investigate alternative sources and play the waiting game. i love that argument that us rich countries say to justify the exploitation of the poor. $2 in a village in Timbuktoo is worth so much more than $2 in Suburbia, USA/UK. i'm sure if the Timbuktooians saw the way we live our lives, the majority would choose our way of life over their own. folks are willing to freeze to death in airliner wheel holds to get to our countries to escape their own desperate circumstances. or how chinese families will promise to pay the Snakeheads $20000 to get their daughter to Europe who ends up being forced into sexual slavery to pay the money back. WAY OFF TOPIC HERE, so sorry guys. my rant is now over. Over to you - rip my argument to shreds fellas! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.