Pitchfork lets Jake Bannon jerk off on its face

[swankymodes]

Wait, I'm confused, they celebrate Converge for being DIY and Bannon runs Deathwish, but the album came out on Epitaph? Did any of the Converge albums come out on Deathwish?

[devinr]

Wait, I'm confused, they celebrate Converge for being DIY and Bannon runs Deathwish, but the album came out on Epitaph? Did any of the Converge albums come out on Deathwish?

If I'm not mistaken the first deathwish release was the converge/hellchild split. They have re released some of their albums through DW as well.

[drabley]

I could name a dozen bands that release their material through their own label.

BFD.

[sgoodcore]

I could name a dozen bands that release their material through their own label.

BFD.

Bad Religion, for instance and that's pretty damn far from DIY.

[suburbanargyle]

I could name a dozen bands that release their material through their own label.

BFD.

Bad Religion, for instance and that's pretty damn far from DIY.

Also, Pearl Jam's new album is self-released.

[lokithelion]

I agree they're this generation's black flag, when you look at the combined importance of both their imagery and the way their musical evolution has effected the hardcore scene. I can see the understanding. Juan has so far written my favorite review.

[jhulud]

I agree they're this generation's black flag, when you look at the combined importance of both their imagery and the way their musical evolution has effected the hardcore scene. I can see the understanding. Juan has so far written my favorite review.

Put simply like that, I can agree.

And thanks!

[drabley]

I agree they're this generation's black flag, when you look at the combined importance of both their imagery and the way their musical evolution has effected the hardcore scene. I can see the understanding. Juan has so far written my favorite review.

Put simply like that, I can agree.

And thanks!

I think it's preposterous to compare Converge to Black Flag, but maybe that's just me.

Forging a path vs. going off on a tangent are two very different things.

Just the way I see it. Don't hate.

[jhulud]

I think what is being referred to as "this generation's BF" is the fact that Converge has taken their music to a new level and created a new style that is different from what was being done before. They have done so in their own terms and also an imagery all their own.

I can understand why there is a disagreement from some people. In all simplicity, each band has brought something new to the table in their style of music and by doing so, created something that is unique and representative of who they are. Musically and visually.

[FuzzRecords]

If most people hate what Pitchfork has to say (including myself), why waste your time reading it?

This isn't directed to any one in particular, just a rhetorical question I suppose.

[rtw88]

I think that Black Flag is last generation's Converge.

[cosmonaut]

If most people hate what Pitchfork has to say (including myself), why waste your time reading it?

This isn't directed to any one in particular, just a rhetorical question I suppose.

Yeah, I agree with you, but it's actually somewhat useful as a news site. What pisses me off is the ridiculous, pseudo-scientific grading system. 7.2? 5.6? What the fuck does that even mean?

[sgoodcore]

I think what is being referred to as "this generation's BF" is the fact that Converge has taken their music to a new level and created a new style that is different from what was being done before. They have done so in their own terms and also an imagery all their own.

I can understand why there is a disagreement from some people. In all simplicity, each band has brought something new to the table in their style of music and by doing so, created something that is unique and representative of who they are. Musically and visually.

I may be deaf, its quite possible but I don't hear that when I listen to them. I'm more with "drabley" in saying its a tangent, its a one-upping, its turning previous things to eleven but its not this game-changing thing. People do what Converge does because they want success and see a successful band and copy, not because its transcendent.

I mean, they have double-kick, they have thick guitar and bass work, and growled, pushed vocals but fuck, Mastodon does some of the same stuff as Converge.

They do what they do well, I think that should be enough. They don't have to be amazing to be great and they don't have to do something new to be superb at their craft. There's no need for hyperbole.

If most people hate what Pitchfork has to say (including myself), why waste your time reading it?

This isn't directed to any one in particular, just a rhetorical question I suppose.

Yeah, I agree with you, but it's actually somewhat useful as a news site. What pisses me off is the ridiculous, pseudo-scientific grading system. 7.2? 5.6? What the fuck does that even mean?

Well they do review 5 records a day, plus singles, 5 days of a week. That's 25 records a week, roughly 1000 reviews a year. If you didn't use something more granular you would have issue differentiating levels of kick-ass. I want to know the difference between a "7" and an "8" and the difference between an "8" and an "8.8" sometimes. You just don't get the same ability to express those differences, nuanced as they may be, using stars.

[cosmonaut]

Yeah, I agree with you, but it's actually somewhat useful as a news site. What pisses me off is the ridiculous, pseudo-scientific grading system. 7.2? 5.6? What the fuck does that even mean?

Well they do review 5 records a day, plus singles, 5 days of a week. That's 25 records a week, roughly 1000 reviews a year. If you didn't use something more granular you would have issue differentiating levels of kick-ass. I want to know the difference between a "7" and an "8" and the difference between an "8" and an "8.8" sometimes. You just don't get the same ability to express those differences, nuanced as they may be, using stars.

It might be a good system if you follow a particular writer's reviews.

It's not like they have a standard across staff writers or anything, right?

I still prefer reviews that don't grade at all.

[saxamaphone]

The real problem here is you read Pitchfork.

[FuzzRecords]

In general I usually avoid reading any reviews. Mainly because its either written by a clearly biased fan or someone who isn't familiar said band/genre of music. The worst reviews come from people that clearly hold something against a band for whatever reason. All in all, they're just someone's opinion. I'm not saying all reviews are garbage (Juan's review stuck to the actual music!), I'd just rather keep up with new releases and listen for myself.

[kurtz]

I think what is being referred to as "this generation's BF" is the fact that Converge has taken their music to a new level and created a new style that is different from what was being done before. They have done so in their own terms and also an imagery all their own.

I can understand why there is a disagreement from some people. In all simplicity, each band has brought something new to the table in their style of music and by doing so, created something that is unique and representative of who they are. Musically and visually.

I may be deaf, its quite possible but I don't hear that when I listen to them. I'm more with "drabley" in saying its a tangent, its a one-upping, its turning previous things to eleven but its not this game-changing thing. People do what Converge does because they want success and see a successful band and copy, not because its transcendent.

I mean, they have double-kick, they have thick guitar and bass work, and growled, pushed vocals but fuck, Mastodon does some of the same stuff as Converge.

They do what they do well, I think that should be enough. They don't have to be amazing to be great and they don't have to do something new to be superb at their craft. There's no need for hyperbole.

Converge has been around since 1990. That's 19 years. And throughout those 19 years they have continued to keep their sound fresh and relevant influencing countless bands over that time. If that's not transcendent, then I don't know what is. To say that bands are only copying Converge in order to "be successful" is really belittling the groundbreaking contributions that Converge has made to the hardcore and metal genres.

[lokithelion]

I think what is being referred to as "this generation's BF" is the fact that Converge has taken their music to a new level and created a new style that is different from what was being done before. They have done so in their own terms and also an imagery all their own.

I can understand why there is a disagreement from some people. In all simplicity, each band has brought something new to the table in their style of music and by doing so, created something that is unique and representative of who they are. Musically and visually.

I may be deaf, its quite possible but I don't hear that when I listen to them. I'm more with "drabley" in saying its a tangent, its a one-upping, its turning previous things to eleven but its not this game-changing thing. People do what Converge does because they want success and see a successful band and copy, not because its transcendent.

I mean, they have double-kick, they have thick guitar and bass work, and growled, pushed vocals but fuck, Mastodon does some of the same stuff as Converge.

They do what they do well, I think that should be enough. They don't have to be amazing to be great and they don't have to do something new to be superb at their craft. There's no need for hyperbole.

Yeah, I agree with you, but it's actually somewhat useful as a news site. What pisses me off is the ridiculous, pseudo-scientific grading system. 7.2? 5.6? What the fuck does that even mean?

Well they do review 5 records a day, plus singles, 5 days of a week. That's 25 records a week, roughly 1000 reviews a year. If you didn't use something more granular you would have issue differentiating levels of kick-ass. I want to know the difference between a "7" and an "8" and the difference between an "8" and an "8.8" sometimes. You just don't get the same ability to express those differences, nuanced as they may be, using stars.

Converge's drummer doesn't use double bass as of the last time i saw them. Dude is just a beast.

[FuzzRecords]

He used it in Albany, but I don't remember him using it before either. Double bass or not, he's insane.

[sgoodcore]

Converge has been around since 1990. That's 19 years. And throughout those 19 years they have continued to keep their sound fresh and relevant influencing countless bands over that time. If that's not transcendent, then I don't know what is. To say that bands are only copying Converge in order to "be successful" is really belittling the groundbreaking contributions that Converge has made to the hardcore and metal genres.

Then explain to me, honestly I could just be ignorant to it, what groundbreaking contributions have they made? And for me virtuosity doesn't count and neither does vocal style.

[drabley]

Converge has been around since 1990. That's 19 years. And throughout those 19 years they have continued to keep their sound fresh and relevant influencing countless bands over that time. If that's not transcendent, then I don't know what is. To say that bands are only copying Converge in order to "be successful" is really belittling the groundbreaking contributions that Converge has made to the hardcore and metal genres.

Then explain to me, honestly I could just be ignorant to it, what groundbreaking contributions have they made? And for me virtuosity doesn't count and neither does vocal style.

That's what I was wondering.

I don't think anything is groundbreaking anymore. Music today is just a giant cluster fuck of mixed genres and styles. I don't even know what I listen to anymore. Post this, core that, hyphens everywhere. Shit's confusing.

The ground was broken long ago. What happens after is called natural progression. Nobody is doing anything these days but hybridizing. Hardly groundbreaking, if you ask me.

Fact is, Converge are great. The album is solid. The review did it's job -- we're all talking about the record. That's the point and purpose of it all.

/thread

[FuzzRecords]

In a few years, this review will be known as the spark that ignited Hyperbo-core. We're all witnesses.

[tre]

.

[kurtz]

Converge has been around since 1990. That's 19 years. And throughout those 19 years they have continued to keep their sound fresh and relevant influencing countless bands over that time. If that's not transcendent, then I don't know what is. To say that bands are only copying Converge in order to "be successful" is really belittling the groundbreaking contributions that Converge has made to the hardcore and metal genres.

Then explain to me, honestly I could just be ignorant to it, what groundbreaking contributions have they made? And for me virtuosity doesn't count and neither does vocal style.

Listen to what most hardcore and metal sounded like in the late 80's/early 90's. Then listen to Petitioning The Empty Sky. Converge blended hardcore and metal like few had even thought about doing before. They were one of the first and most important pioneers of that "metalcore" (for lack of a better term) sound.

Fast forward to 2000. Listen to the "metalcore" that tons of bands were playing at that time. Then listen to Jane Doe. They completely turned the genre on it's head. They way all the instruments blended together along with the sheer complexity of the guitars and even more so the drumming. It was so much more than the blastbeats and breakdowns that were very commonplace in the genre.

I know you say that virtuosity doesn't count, and I'm not saying Converge was groundbreaking because they were technical. I'm saying it was groundbreaking the way they (along with a few other bands) brought the technicality into a genre that was not known for it.

The ground was broken long ago.

Yes, by Converge.

[sgoodcore]

But doesn't that just make them better instrumentalist? Something that shouldn't be disregarded but something that's not transcendent.

And in some cases I would say blending hardcore and metal wasn't exactly a great thing. But again mixing sounds that close together sonically isn't some amazing discovery to me, at least.