appletree Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 like i said the good suffer for the bad. anyone who is trying to get back on their feet and do what they can to get off of welfare then why would they care about taking a drug test. hell i think they would support it so the system could theoretically clean up and have the money going to the people who need it not want it. i think this is one step of many that need to take place. and by them not having a job in a long time is most likely their own fault. i bet a lawn care company, dry cleaners, mcdonalds, housekeeping, pool cleaning, tree cutting, newspaper, etc would hire someone willing and wanting to work. i am not talking about someone in a wheelchair (or disabled and physically cannot work) but the guy/girl running the streets collecting money claiming he cannot find a job anywhere. i think if someone is willing and hardworking enough they can land a job somewhere doing something, the government (local, state, federal) throws millions probably billions at programs to help people get something nice to wear, a meal to eat, a place to stay, and land a job, among tons of other programs for those willing and wanting to better themselves (and family). then they can apply for the other jobs and honestly state that they had a previous recent job. when i graduated college, may 2009, the oil industry was in the shits. i spent everyday from 8-5 making my sole job, looking for a job. to the point where i started working for free. yes absolutely free and for a 60,000 employee company (i was somehow labeled as an intern). i worked for about three months until i told them i had to quit and go back to solely looking for a job because i straight up ran out of money (driving a 2000 kia to work with duck tape and an hour each way to get there). fortunately i had family and was able to live with my parents but that isn't the point i am making. i am saying that after i quit they called me the next day and wanted me back and now could miracously pay me, like $11 an hour. I stayed for a month (while applying to over 200 positions all over the world) and landed a few interviews. had one really go well and am now a drilling engineer for an underground gas storage company (who needs to go back to work after i finish this rant). point being while i was bummed, my only gf ever left me after 4 years, i graduated and the job offer i had back in sept of 08 was revoked (bc of recession and they were on a hiring freeze), living at home, car breaking down on the interstate, and just completely depressed, i never ever once asked for a handout. never went to anyone and begged. i knew that if i worked my fucking ass off and showed people that i graduated texas a&m with a petroleum engineering degree and was willing to do whatever to give me a shot. imo it all paid off. been here 1 1/2 years. kept the kia for a year (cause im tight with money) and bought a small new bmw. got an apt, save my money, pay my bills, work out, do photography, try to keep myself busy because otherwise id get depressed lower than low. i could go into how yes i had a degree, yes i had a family, yes i had money saved up that i spent over three months of working for not a single penny, yes i had a lot others don't, but i still never looked back and worked my ass off knocking on companies doors saying id like an interview and if they are busy let me talk to someone who isn't. good luck to anyone trying at it. like i said before i want my money to go to people who need it and need a push in the right direction. still do not want it going to people using or abusing the system with money that have been granted and taken away from potential people or families out there whom truly need it for the time being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steventangent Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 to hell with the fourth amendment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryq Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 "We're really sorry to hear that your wife developed chemical pneumonitis at work and died. Now pee in this cup, under the pretext that you may just be a lazy drug addict, if you want to be able to provide food for your now motherless children in the foreseeable future." this from cnn.com The aid recipients would be responsible for the cost of the screening, which they would recoup in their assistance if they qualify.Those who fail the required drug testing may designate another individual to receive the benefits on behalf of their children. and I saw things saying that the cost of the tests were <$75, and other places said $10-25, so somewhere in that range. as for the 4th amendment, michigan had a similar law that was deemed unconstitutional, but I'm not sure what the differences between the two are and whether or not florida found a "loophole" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steventangent Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I find this idea aberrant. It's also an ugly precedent. Completely despicable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steventangent Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Why not go after the white collar criminals that make the drug trade happen? Why not cut corporate welfare programs before cutting social welfare programs? Does anybody realize that this low-hanging fruit approach punishes people who can't afford to fight back? How many of you understand that, if not for food stamp programs, you may not even have a grocery store in your neighborhood? Is it frustrating knowing that some people abuse the system? Hell yes it is. Is a reactionary solution that erodes civil rights and needlessly complicates the lives of millions and treats people, some of whom live in abject poverty (the likes of which a lot of you obviously don't understand) as potential criminals the way to solve this problem? I absolutely think it is not, and furthermore, I think our endless series of reactionary solutions has lead our country into pretty dark moral alley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcm1610 Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 Those are my feelings, too. It's really sad that the targets are the voiceless: those who are too preoccupied with their daily struggles to bother voting or writing their senator. They see no solutions no matter who is in office, so they try to find their own fixes, such as dealing drugs. The drugs are a byproduct of the real societal problems that will be enhanced when we rip the rug out from those who need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankmurphy Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 The drugs are a byproduct of the real societal problems that will be enhanced when we rip the rug out from those who need it. This is why our current welfare situation scares me so much. What if we get a bunch of tea party jerks in office who decide to end welfare immediately? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j4m35 Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 The drugs are a byproduct of the real societal problems that will be enhanced when we rip the rug out from those who need it. This is why our current welfare situation scares me so much. What if we get a bunch of tea party jerks in office who decide to end welfare immediately? they won't. the tea party will become a joke by the 2012 election. their platform splits the republican base more than it unites it. the only republican who will have a chance come next november is the one who will move more towards the center vis-a-vis social issues to grab the moderates. the one thing democrats and republicans can agree on is that the tea party is the problem in american politics today. the debt ceiling debate would be settled if it weren't for obdurate tea party idiots pontificating to their die-hard constituents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgedestroys Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 As far as testing for welfare goes I like the idea of it, I understand there are people that fall on hard times, I know people need help once in a while, I've been there (needed help from my parents a few times for rent etc) but like others have said I'd prefer my taxes to go to people that actually need help, not just into a cycle of addiction or the weekend's bong hits. There are people that legitimately need it but there are also people that abuse the system, I've lived near them so it's not like they don't exist. Like Appletree said, If you are honest and actually need it then you shouldn't mind it, it's not like a drug test is an arduous and painful ordeal. I took one to get a job at Home Depot and how much did I care that I had to take it to get paychecks? None, why should honest people be bothered that they need to do it for their welfare check? The technical problems arise as previously stated in the costs for doing it, but I don't think it's immoral or an invasion of privacy or any of that shit to make sure people aren't gonna blow their welfare on drugs. If you actually need to be on welfare should you really be worrying about getting high more than getting your life together and back on track? If you're gonna do stuff, whatever but I don't see a problem in cleaning up for a hot minute while you get your shit in order. There is the problem as said of "Well what about children that need help but can't get it since the parents can't pass the test?" but I think that could be worked out if we're gonna take the time to add this to the system. As far as legalizing goes, I think this mostly is constrained to weed, I don't think most people think we should be letting heroin and crack loose into stores. Personally I hate weed, booze, pretty much everything, but as far as weed goes I actually support it's legalization. People get it now and they're going to get it whether it's legal or not. Why not make it legal and taxable to generate some revenue to put towards fixing other problems? On top of that bonus revenue, where do the dealers go? Where do gang wars go (not that that so much applies to weed as harder drugs but still)? What about kids that start doing it just to be rebellious or get a thrill simply because it's illegal (this does happen)? You eliminate a lot of this negative activity just by legalizing it. I'm straight edge and hate the shit but I can see easily where we'd benefit from legalizing it. Is it healthy for you? No, not really. Inhaling any kind of smoke isn't good for you, but it's also far less deadly than cigarettes and alcohol which are legal. I mean shit, McDonald's is legal and that sure as hell isn't good for you. I dunno, I'm kinda incoherently rambling but that's all my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hipsterasfolk Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 There are a lot of old people who desperately need welfare and have already contributed to their society. That would be unemployment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j4m35 Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 There are a lot of old people who desperately need welfare and have already contributed to their society. That would be unemployment. you mean social security. that's like saying medicare and medicaid are the same thing, though i'm pretty sure not even the authors understood the difference anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcm1610 Posted July 30, 2011 Author Share Posted July 30, 2011 The difference in Medicare and Medicaid? They serve vastly different populations... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madtired Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 did not read the whole thread, but i am sure this is targeted more at meth/crackheads than pot users. Meth is a serious problem.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcm1610 Posted July 30, 2011 Author Share Posted July 30, 2011 Meth is pretty crazy. If Meth is what they were after, and a positive test resulted in rehab for the user in order to get their welfare, I might soften my stance, but I doubt that's the result, and I'm fairly sure any drug is enough to set it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenspb Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 This whole thing just perpetuates the idea that welfare recipients are all on drugs. It’s an insult to the majority who are clean. There are bad seeds in all facets of life. Some people abuse the system, most do not. Besides, the govt has no right to your urine without probably cause, just as your employer doesn’t. Being poor is not probable cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenspb Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 This whole thing just perpetuates the idea that welfare recipients are all on drugs. It’s an insult to the majority who are clean. There are bad seeds in all facets of life. Some people abuse the system, most do not. Besides, the govt has no right to your urine without probably cause, just as your employer doesn’t. Being poor is not probable cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Hundred Fifty-Two Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 This whole thing just perpetuates the idea that welfare recipients are all on drugs. It’s an insult to the majority who are clean. There are bad seeds in all facets of life. Some people abuse the system, most do not.Besides, the govt has no right to your urine without probably cause, just as your employer doesn’t. Being poor is not probable cause. If anything it eliminates the idea that welfare recipients are on drugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Hundred Fifty-Two Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 This whole thing just perpetuates the idea that welfare recipients are all on drugs. It’s an insult to the majority who are clean. There are bad seeds in all facets of life. Some people abuse the system, most do not.Besides, the govt has no right to your urine without probably cause, just as your employer doesn’t. Being poor is not probable cause. If anything it eliminates the idea that welfare recipients are on drugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenspb Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Really? None of the comments here have hinted that, just maybe, welfare recipients use drugs? I get the idea, but myths don't just disappear. It's a political hot topic that says "we tried" until it gets shot down by the courts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorenspb Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Really? None of the comments here have hinted that, just maybe, welfare recipients use drugs? I get the idea, but myths don't just disappear. It's a political hot topic that says "we tried" until it gets shot down by the courts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokithelion Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 I work with massive amounts of welfare recipients. I work in the projects, and I work in trailer parks. Anyone who thinks drugs aren't a massive problem in either of those areas are just as far removed from reality as people who think ALL welfare recipients are on drugs. Drug testing for welfare recipients would instantly create a new dynamic in public housing and impoverished neighborhoods. To say that it pegs all welfare recipients as drug users is to say drug testing of employees pegs all employees as drug users. However I'd have been completely against it too had I not spent six years working in those communities every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokithelion Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 I work with massive amounts of welfare recipients. I work in the projects, and I work in trailer parks. Anyone who thinks drugs aren't a massive problem in either of those areas are just as far removed from reality as people who think ALL welfare recipients are on drugs. Drug testing for welfare recipients would instantly create a new dynamic in public housing and impoverished neighborhoods. To say that it pegs all welfare recipients as drug users is to say drug testing of employees pegs all employees as drug users. However I'd have been completely against it too had I not spent six years working in those communities every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryq Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Really? None of the comments here have hinted that, just maybe, welfare recipients use drugs?I get the idea, but myths don't just disappear. It's a political hot topic that says "we tried" until it gets shot down by the courts. I think people have said that there exist welfare recipients who use drugs, not that all welfare recipients use drugs. I read something (maybe a link somebody posted or something I googled based off of what somebody posted) that said ~9-10% of welfare recipients use drugs, compared to ~6% of non-welfare recipients. probably statistically significant given the sample sizes, but not all that meaningful... anyway, not sure what that adds to anything, but it's sad to think that there are ~3 million people in the US who are using drugs while on welfare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryq Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Really? None of the comments here have hinted that, just maybe, welfare recipients use drugs?I get the idea, but myths don't just disappear. It's a political hot topic that says "we tried" until it gets shot down by the courts. I think people have said that there exist welfare recipients who use drugs, not that all welfare recipients use drugs. I read something (maybe a link somebody posted or something I googled based off of what somebody posted) that said ~9-10% of welfare recipients use drugs, compared to ~6% of non-welfare recipients. probably statistically significant given the sample sizes, but not all that meaningful... anyway, not sure what that adds to anything, but it's sad to think that there are ~3 million people in the US who are using drugs while on welfare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcm1610 Posted August 12, 2011 Author Share Posted August 12, 2011 I work in the projects everyday too. Third year of it. I still think there's other ways than punishing the poor further because they test positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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