Drug Testing

[mcm1610]

Apparently two states passed / are implementing drug testing for welfare.

How does VC feel about drug testing: a) in this case in general.

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Personally, as a non-drug user, I have a fairly casual view of drug users. Do I think they're making a poor health choice? Yes, but I drink pretty regularly and eat a shit-ton of chicken finger subs. Drug testing should be completely irrelevant to holding a job or getting benefits. If I were to go home and smoke a lot of weed before eating dinner, then woke up and came to work and did my job just fine, what difference does it make that I smoked the night before?

Another way to look at it is... as an employee, what's worse... a drug user who does his job just fine or a sober-yet-incompetent worker?

[stbarric]

Matt, you are the voice of reason. It is crazy that they would choose to drug test for welfare. Besides the fact that our definition of a 'drug' is a little distorted (alcohol and nicotine don't count as illegal drugs but marijuana does, while we're prescribing pill after pill to increasingly younger ages), my personal views on welfare are that regardless of the person accepting the check, what about their family? Just because someones parent/s are using doesn't mean that they shouldn't be given the chance to be helped. And as an employee, I love my stoner work friends who actually work way more than my walk-the-line retards who can't do their shit right.

[SeeMoreGlass]

I am also a non drug user, and I kind of have mixed feelings on this issue...

I think if people are going to reap the benefits of welfare, this is a completely resonable thing for the government to ask...Its like saying "Hey, we are going to help you out, but we want to make sure you aren't going to turn around and waste the money that we give you"

But on the other hand, I am not really a fan of the government violating peoples rights, or basically steriotyping people that are on welfare as "drug users".

[almightyseancore]

i feel its an invasion of privacy.

i'm a smoker and a good worker.

it my opinion it only improves my life.

i lost a chance at a really great job recently because after passing all the interviews i got dropped with two only hours notice.

it bums me out that something i enjoy doing, that doesn't effect my responsibility or endanger anyone around me can be so looked down on.

[mcm1610]

Well, you THINK you're a good worker, but you're too high to know that actually you suck.

(kidding)

[Guest]

i collected unemployment checks for 4 months, and every other week, spent $40 on weed. i totally understand why the government doesnt want to support this.

but as everyone else is saying- it is absolute rubbish that i have to worry about potential drug testing, when i smoke weed in the same fashion that i drink. actually.. i take that back. twice this month i drank on the job. ive never been high on the job.

ive never touched coke, crack, heroine, meth, etc. i smoke weed. in my free time. but because i use marijuana, im essentially as bad as an addict.

[stbarric]

I think the this begs the question, what's worse, a person who smokes weed, or a a plain shitty person?

[controlthebleeding]

holding a job is one thing, getting benefits is another. i know way too many people who have taken advantage of the welfare system throughout my life while the rest of us struggled to pay our bills. i don't know how many countless times i've paid for someones weed or coke for twice the amount worth in groceries. actually it was kinda awesome..

[hipsterasfolk]

Never done drugs in my life.

Pay my taxes.

Let em starve for their milking of the welfare system.

[j4m35]

i'm not thrilled with the precedent this sets.

[harryq]

testing for welfare? the only possible problem I have with this is "who's paying for the test?" other than that, I fully support discouraging tax money from going toward people's drug habits (that may very well be related to them being on welfare as it is)

my personal views on welfare are that regardless of the person accepting the check, what about their family? Just because someones parent/s are using doesn't mean that they shouldn't be given the chance to be helped.

perhaps it's my anti-drug bias (hell, I know it is), but something about a druggie on welfare doesn't seem like a fit parent to begin with. aren't there programs that donate books, clothes, and whatnot to children of underprivileged families? they could simply redirect the welfare check into things kids need that the parent should have been buying with that money anyway

testing in general? I don't have a problem with it, but I don't really have much of an argument for it for a number of jobs (like "guy who works at zumiez/vans")

anyhoo, what happens if you fail a drug test? like, are there legal ramifications? "possession of a controlled substance" in your urine? seems like if you failed the test for welfare, the government would do more than withhold a check from you...

[motorbike]

i am known to dabble and i say bring it on. i feel like the people who are against it need to see my hood.

[MattyIceyo]

In MA they put a ban on using Welfare/EBT on Lottery, Booze, Cigarettes, etc. I think that is a good start. I also think it's a good idea to start drug testing. Why should I pay taxes for someone to abuse it on drugs and such.

[lonesomexloveus]

i think it's a good idea for welfare. like several other people have mentioned, it's a good start to curb people from abusing the money they receive from the government.

to the person who said that it isn't fair to the kids whose parents abuse drugs - they're probably not going to see as much as the money as they should anyways due to their parents wasting it on illegal substances.

i don't really have any problem with drug testing at work (probably because i'm edge), but i can see where people would have a problem. i think it's reasonable to only test people whose behavior is suspicious or if they have unacceptable output of work.

[hipsterasfolk]

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[appletree]

anyhoo, what happens if you fail a drug test? like, are there legal ramifications? "possession of a controlled substance" in your urine? seems like if you failed the test for welfare, the government would do more than withhold a check from you...

i was always under the impression people do not get in legal trouble for being high. for possession and the like is obviously a different story.

Why should I pay taxes for someone to abuse it on drugs and such.

i agree we work hard and bust our asses our whole life, i have no problem with fixing roads, fighting crime, bettering society, etc.

while i care less what people do in their own lives nothing bothers me more than people sticking their hands out wanting the government to do it all for them. now i have NO problem helping people out who need it. helping people get on their feet and move forward is just fine. i want my money to better society. i do not want my money going to someone abusing the system for 17 years or for any other reason.

it is the bad that make the good suffer. hopefully this will allow more money and programs to be going to people who want to move forward, send their kids to school, etc, but had a rough patch in the road. (not saying that screening for drugs means you do not want any of that just arguing my own point of people using the system in ways that affect people needing the system and affect money going to other societal items in general)

[hankmurphy]

The welfare system is broken, and has been for a long time. Drug testing people is not going to fix the problem. Drug use has been around for thousands of years, while welfare is a necessary byproduct of our modern society. This isn't being done to encourage people to get help or to solve our drug (or welfare) problem, instead it's being done to keep certain groups down. I know the 100:1 ratio was mentioned in another thread yesterday, and this is a very similar policy with similar intended results.

Every single day our government does something that makes me angry.

Today I learned about HF589, a bill in Iowa that will make it illegal to film animal abuse at CAFOs and other animal facilities.

http://coolice.legis.state.ia.us/Cool-IC....84&hbill=HF58 9

[appletree]

If the government makes you angry every single day perhaps find another government, or a constructive way to improve it? And keep certain groups down...like groups that use my tax money to get high?

And I agree it is not going to fix the problem, but I am not sure if they are attempting to fix the drug problem. I think they are saying if you are going to take handouts you need to be clean. They are giving these people taxpayers money and they are responsible for how to spend it, thus they have all the right to say who to give it to or not to. Obviously I would disagree on some points but personally not on this one, and not because of the drugs themselves, but because of spending the money on drugs.

Not trying to argue at all cause I'm not good at it, just trying to see your side of it as well. I respect your opinions and all, just wondering.

edit: my grammar is horrible

[hankmurphy]

The group they're trying to keep down is the group using welfare, whether they are also drug users or not. By keeping the welfare system in place, you've got a large group of people who depend on the government for day-to-day survival.

Our lawmakers don't want a large, angry, hungry population on their doorsteps, so they keep them pacified with welfare while using the system as leverage. Many of these people are living in crime and squalor, but since they're provided for, they don't often stand up for themselves and the conditions they live in. It's similar to using buffer societies for colonization.

Fining another government is not the solution for me. I would rather fight to make my country a better place.

[[[Delete this account]]]

In MA they put a ban on using Welfare/EBT on Lottery, Booze, Cigarettes, etc. I think that is a good start. I also think it's a good idea to start drug testing. Why should I pay taxes for someone to abuse it on drugs and such.

This makes the most sense to me, as nice as it is, WE are paying for those drugs. I don't care if you work just fine or it makes you happy, I sure as hell don't want to pay for it.

[motorbike]

@hankmurphy: i dont see your logic in saying that this keeps this group down. they can continue to use drugs and be cut off or they can clean up and use the money on things like, i dont know, food? im a firm believer in what your saying. the last thing a government wants is a large, poor, hungry population on their hands but this has nothing to do with that. chances are if they are trading groceries for drugs (most likely at double the cost of the drug (hood rat knowledge)) then they are going hungry and if they have children they are doing without as well.

[hankmurphy]

Yeah, I was wrong about the drug testing keeping them down. The welfare system in general is being used to keep people down, while the drug testing is just another form of exerting control.

It is definitely in the best interests of anyone on welfare to not use drugs of any kind.

[j4m35]

@hankmurphy: i dont see your logic in saying that this keeps this group down. they can continue to use drugs and be cut off or they can clean up and use the money on things like, i dont know, food? im a firm believer in what your saying. the last thing a government wants is a large, poor, hungry population on their hands but this has nothing to do with that. chances are if they are trading groceries for drugs (most likely at double the cost of the drug (hood rat knowledge)) then they are going hungry and if they have children they are doing without as well.

exactly. sounds like a bunch of privileged white people living in a hermetically sealed bubble in this thread. if you think that drug testing should be necessary for welfare recipients, you have something wrong in your head. people would much rather still use drugs and get money a different way than have to give up drugs in exchange for a government check. you want to see crime go up about a thousand percent? drug users would rather steal, prostitute, rob and sell more drugs than not be able to use drugs but still get a pretty small government check.

the welfare system is not being used to keep people down. although it is broken, it is necessary. our country marginalizes poor people, minorities and the mentally sick. they need social programs like this to help them out. if you live in the neighborhoods where a lot of people utilize these programs, you'll see that without them, the areas would be much worse off.

[eddieruckus]

Fuck the whole war on drugs

[j4m35]

pretty much. drug addiction is a disease. here is my solution: legalize and tax soft drugs and use the tax money to pay for drug education programs and to fix to social security.