So this shit is what its come to...

[jblahmaster]

I can understand this sentiment as I think maybe a dozen records in my collection were purchased at a Hot Topic (and that's a liberal estimate I'm sure) - my record hunting habits are very much in line with your's but the thing is, there are often times records that the majority of folks who own OG presses of will never let go of so finding them used in swaps/stores is extremely rare and finding them on eBay is extremely pricey - by admitting that you use eBay, I'm assuming you don't mind paying top price for rare stuff which of course is one vote towards the spectrum of flippers and that's fine, but some folks may not have the fundage to pay 60+ for every record they want, so if a label re-issues something that they know several hundred people are going after, everyone wins - punter gets the record, label gets the money.

I've never understood the whole argument that record labels are greedy and the second hand/used marketplace is the more viable option when both hubs are both ultimately after the green. Atleast with a label re-issuing or repressing a record, they're offering it at a fair price - if anything, I think the second hand market is greedier in that some participants get angry that a record they could have gotten 100 for goes for less because the label had the 'audacity' to press another run, thus lowering the value of what they can get from it. At the end of the day, too many folks are forgetting that records are ultimately about listening and not about fetishizing.

Holy shit, a reasonable voice.

This is precisely why I miss the good ol days of ebay auctions. You had the chance of picking up a $60 record for $10. Same goes for hunting in record bins. Some shops don't know what they have or don't care to find out.

My white whale is the Rocket Pack 7" from RFTC. When it does appear on ebay once every year or two, it ends up selling for well over $1000. I'm not willing to pay that much, but that's just me. Do I wish for a repress? Absolutely not. I'd rather find one in a bin 10 years from now instead of finding 50 in each bin next week.

To open an new can of worms, I like how Fat re-releases one record at a time but don't get the Lagwagon box set or the NOFX/BR represses on Epitaph.

Sharpen your pitchforks and light the torches.

In all reality what you're saying is subjective in the end. You like to hunt for that white wale, while some people find it easier to buy a repress.

This debate can go either way really. I also agree with everything Krisstress has said in his last post. While i don't agree with repress being stupid at all, i can agree that the hunt for that much wanted record is sometimes the best part. Getting it makes it worth while.

[bowserhound]

Exactly. These days people want what they can order from their smartphone and that's about it.

[jerseydave77]

I don't get the insane prices on recent releases - that's for sure. There is always going to be a white whale to hunt. I am a music lover and a hobbyist - I like first presses as a general rule. I've never paid more than $50 for a single record and only did that on a Test Press recently. There's room to keep the hunt alive while allowing newer pressings to be there for folks that just want the music.

I'm a huge Naked Raygun fan for instance. I had no interest in the represses and have collected first-pressings of everything. Mercifully this wasn't too expensive but in the mid-1990s as eBay was just really getting started this was a lot harder and it took me 2 years. I love the hunt but I also don't like waiting years on end to hear something anymore like I used to.

[Snaggle Von Swift]

wonder how many people flipped the MTS Blink TOYPAJ records, with the expected release date

[idreamofpunk]

17. COnservative estimate.

[robthepenguin]

I can understand this sentiment as I think maybe a dozen records in my collection were purchased at a Hot Topic (and that's a liberal estimate I'm sure) - my record hunting habits are very much in line with your's but the thing is, there are often times records that the majority of folks who own OG presses of will never let go of so finding them used in swaps/stores is extremely rare and finding them on eBay is extremely pricey - by admitting that you use eBay, I'm assuming you don't mind paying top price for rare stuff which of course is one vote towards the spectrum of flippers and that's fine, but some folks may not have the fundage to pay 60+ for every record they want, so if a label re-issues something that they know several hundred people are going after, everyone wins - punter gets the record, label gets the money.

I've never understood the whole argument that record labels are greedy and the second hand/used marketplace is the more viable option when both hubs are both ultimately after the green. Atleast with a label re-issuing or repressing a record, they're offering it at a fair price - if anything, I think the second hand market is greedier in that some participants get angry that a record they could have gotten 100 for goes for less because the label had the 'audacity' to press another run, thus lowering the value of what they can get from it. At the end of the day, too many folks are forgetting that records are ultimately about listening and not about fetishizing.

Holy shit, a reasonable voice.

This is precisely why I miss the good ol days of ebay auctions. You had the chance of picking up a $60 record for $10. Same goes for hunting in record bins. Some shops don't know what they have or don't care to find out.

My white whale is the Rocket Pack 7" from RFTC. When it does appear on ebay once every year or two, it ends up selling for well over $1000. I'm not willing to pay that much, but that's just me. Do I wish for a repress? Absolutely not. I'd rather find one in a bin 10 years from now instead of finding 50 in each bin next week.

To open an new can of worms, I like how Fat re-releases one record at a time but don't get the Lagwagon box set or the NOFX/BR represses on Epitaph.

Sharpen your pitchforks and light the torches.

I don't see why you get so worked up about represses. I love hunting for rare OP records but there's also stuff that I like but not nearly enough to search years for or shell out a boat load of money for. That's where the repress comes in. Collectors aren't the majority so there are represses.

Side note: anyone else lol when they looked at LL's profile and he's a repress... And then look at the subject represses=retarded? Haha.

[bowserhound]

Not worked up. All I initially stated is that Flippers are in it for the money just as the labels who put out the represses are.

Then people's panties burst into flames.

[jerktopia]

Whoa, this got out of hand quickly. My original point was about people who dont care about this hobby, or the music and essentially prey on collector types(myself included) This same shit happened with the Botch WATR repress where a whole bunch of fucking douchetards bought up the copies, only to re-sell them to the people who werent lucky enough to get a copy(amazing isnt it? an asshole who only want to make money fucks up someone getting what they want.)

I for one really enjoy digging through crates looking for a good score, its a great feeling when you find a great record at a great price. But almost to side with LL here, its become "hey lest just repress everything" that is going to ruin the hobby. I mean fuck, look how high copies of Refused Shape of punk were going for and then BAM, repress. That shit really wasnt too cool if you had dropped $70+ on a copy and then...YAY EVERYONE CAN HAZ IT!!

You know why certain DJs used to be better than others? Because they gad better fucking collections, collections that took a long time and hard work to get together.

Listen I dont mind them repressing shit, but repressing shit with 857845656564 limited editions is nothing more than an exploiting cash grab.

***Old dude rant......You fucking kids today have it way to easy, back in my day we used to hope somebody was selling their shit in the back of MRR, to the local record store, of wait twice a year for WFMU record fair. Thats right it used to be twice a year, the internet ruined that shit. Get off my lawn.

[kriss]

I'm gonna cherry pick some of the things out of what you just said to respond to and before I do, understand there's no malice in what I'm saying.

The idea that a person can drop X amount of dollars on a record and then get angry when said record gets repressed and becomes easily available again is downright silly. Seriously. I paid nearly $70 for my copy of Sonic Youth's Washing Machine but if they were repressing it tomorrow, I'd be stoked for the folks who've wanted a copy but held out because they either wouldn't or couldn't part with the scratch to get an OG press. Why should someone else getting a product at a better deal or at an easier pace dilute MY enjoyment of said product? Where does the line go from enjoying a record because you fell in love with it versus holding it in your possession as a status symbol and a means of exclusivity?

I get the whole DJ thing - I went through a period a few years ago where I would listen to Jamaican stuff almost exclusively and my main focus was tracking down import copies of old Prince Buster and King Tubby records that had the stamps on them from the pressing plants and shops in Jamaica. Back then in the 60's, those dudes would scratch the labels off their records so that the other DJ's couldn't cop their jams - I get it, I really do. But see here's the thing, when you get into that way of thinking, you start teetering awfully close towards a tiered system where this person over here can have the item at hand and that person over there can't.

The last time I checked, this board was based around folks buying and listening to punk rock and/or off shoots/cousins/musical siblings of it. Call me a yung'in at 27 because I'm not 34 like you, but when I first got into the game, I got into it because I was sick of the elitist mess that came with everything else I liked at the time - punk provided an equal playing field and it was the place where any newjack could come in and become a veteran if they stuck it out and their hearts were sincere. So you mail ordered stuff the old way out of Maximum Rock and Roll and have the good fortune to live near where WFMU hold their fairs - GREAT! Not everyone else has the number of years nor the fortune of location on their side as you do and dismissing those people as lower on some caste system of record collecting is absolute rubbish.

Suggesting that folks can only enjoy a hobby if they have X amount of scratch to spend on it or where in the game for X amount of years to get the stuff OG so that they don't have to wait it out for represses is beyond ridiculous.

[Shitty Rambo]

Now let's talk about how Spotify and Pandora are killing the music industry!

[jerktopia]

Sorry, you are right and that third part came out wrong and sounded elitist and shitty. I look at it in a way where I really do think some of the younger collectors are ruining this hobby. If its all about the music, and just the music, then you have other formats to obtain it on. I seriously think many people nowadays collect records to either make money on it, or brag about their collection.

As far as not having X amount of money to spend on a record, and that meaning they cant have it, well I agree with that to an extent. I mean fuck, I would really like a copy of RFTCS Stat of the Art is one Fire on pink vinyl. This will never happen, so be it, I accept this.

Should people have access to all this music? Absolutely. This hobby has and always will be about exclusivity, you never see the damn soul and doo wop collectors bitching about why something doesnt get a repress, because they understand this game and the way it works. Know what I mean?

[jerktopia]

Also, labels and bands make all these special pressing shit copies because they know they can cash on ebay when collectors get all rabid about having everything.

There is one record I will never own, its the Rocket From the Crypt tattoo 7". I was lucky enough to have managed a record store years ago and bought many collections. Three times this has come up in a buy and I always told the person to keep it. Why? They earned it, the person that will buy it didnt earn it.

[stopthisnoise]

Records aren't the only thing flipped. Think about it. Ticket scalpers, comics, action figures, even the stock market is held the same way. When something becomes more valuable, the market dictates it's worth. Here's my philosophy, If you're dumb enough to fall for being swindled like that, chances are you deserve it.

[jerktopia]

agreed, and I fucking hate scalpers for that reason. I couldnt get a ticket, so you could make $50. It sucks.

[bowserhound]

Slap me silly and call me Nancy. It's like the kids went to bed and the people with all of the common sense got off of work.

And anyone who is a Rocket fan is a friend of mine.

[kriss]

Also, labels and bands make all these special pressing shit copies because they know they can cash on ebay when collectors get all rabid about having everything.

There is one record I will never own, its the Rocket From the Crypt tattoo 7". I was lucky enough to have managed a record store years ago and bought many collections. Three times this has come up in a buy and I always told the person to keep it. Why? They earned it, the person that will buy it didnt earn it.

I can see the logic in being angry at labels who are pressing up multiple variants of one release the first time around or a repress a second or third time around - thing is that it has its upsides and downsides like anything else. The downsides have been highlighted ample times but the upside is that variants have in many ways helped keep smaller labels afloat (when purchased the first time around anyway, I'm not referring to the second hand market and flippers of whom the frustration of this thread is squarely and rightfully aimed at). This is where the rabid completist sect of record collecting has a good side.

For guys like me who don't collect variants and are just happy with one copy regardless of color or whatever else, I can see the frustration in not being able to buy a copy because someone else essentially bought what could have been your copy so that they can turn around and sell it to you for twice as much - but paying high amounts for records isn't synonymous with 'earning' them.

Ultimately, they're possessions and barring that things like hurricanes, fires and the rapture don't happen, they'll come across new owners anyway in the form of offspring, relatives, friends or whoever else when you pass on. Being able to find a record on the cheap that typically goes for an obscene amount is a thrill of the hunt and that's been acknowledged multiple times in this thread - but it could be argued that in the process, the cheap price and the finding dictates that it wasn't 'earned' in the strictest sense of the word.

Records aren't the only thing flipped. Think about it. Ticket scalpers, comics, action figures, even the stock market is held the same way. When something becomes more valuable, the market dictates it's worth. Here's my philosophy, If you're dumb enough to fall for being swindled like that, chances are you deserve it.

This.

There was a period where I was huge into DC related figures and I would often come across figures that were mad expensive typically but I got away with for a fraction of the cost. On the other hand, there are certain comics I'd love to have but they're way too pricey so I settle for trades.

I think the end resolution is that while flippers bring their own set of idiocy to the hobby, a normal punter shouldn't be punished by not being allowed a cheaper option if such an option is viable.

[jerktopia]

haha! Rocket fans unite! In fact Im wearing my Rocket belt buckle right now, it always looks good, but as Ive aged it stabs me in the beer gut every time i bend over.

So, do you have a state of the art on pink for sale? lol

[rochambo]

I'm having my pants repressed cause the dry cleaner fucked up the original pressing.

[recordhound1002]

I'm having my pants repressed cause the dry cleaner fucked up the original pressing.

+ 1

[jerktopia]

Kriss, the RFTC record wasnt earned comment only had to do with the fact that it was a giveaway to anyone in the fan club that got a logo tattoo, I think its not right for someone to have that record that didnt get it from the fan club.

Its like all these "friends" presses you see around that are in the hands of someone the band has no idea exists. Im sorry but I have every record given to me by a friend of their band.

[rochambo]

I remember the tattoo 7". Christ, am I that old?

[jerktopia]

yes, yes you are.

Now if a member of the band said they would give me one if I got the tattoo now, i would do it. The 17 year old me wasnt ready for that commitment. The 34 year old me is.

[kriss]

I'm retracting my statement a bit in that case since that's a definite exception. If I had something as a result of something permanent like a tattoo, I wouldn't be pawning it off, that's for sure.

[jerktopia]

I think more that anything what i was trying to say was that this was once a hobby, its now become a business, and that is ruining the hobby. Remember the first record store day? Like three people there, the last two years I showed up and just walked away. Of the 100+ people on line maybe 10% were actual collectors.

[SecretAgentP]

I look at it in a way where I really do think some of the younger collectors are ruining this hobby. If its all about the music, and just the music, then you have other formats to obtain it on.

...Really?

This is what I think is ruining this "hobby"; referring to it as a fucking hobby.

Truth is, it IS music; what else is it supposed to be about? If it's about collecting shit to you, then buy a pack of fucking baseball cards. I buy records to have the music on my preferred format, and I don't really give a shit if it's OG, repress, or whatever the fuck else there is for people to bitch about.