turnstiles Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 This could have probably went in confessions, or man advice, or some other thread but I'll let the mods decide. Some of you guys on the board are around my age (24) and some of you are older/younger. Do you guys ever feel like you've made some sort of ultimate decision that has impacted who you are today vs who you could have become? I'm writing this because I called the local junior college today to find out if a pre req for my graduate degree was offered there instead of taking it at the very pricey institution that I got into for my Master's (Loyola Chicago, for School Counseling). And while I was on the website I saw there was a radiology associates program and for some reason it caught my eye. I have no idea why it caught my eye but it did, and then I looked into it and I could graduate from that program with 75% less debt than my master's program and get into a field that is expanding and needs people rather than a field that is getting cut when budgets are cut nationwide. So I thought about this for about an hour and I started thinking about what my 18 year old self was thinking when he applied to college and how I'm making decisions now that could have been made 6 years ago before I had a taste of independence and before I was forced to move home and live with my family. Are there any decisions in your life that you struggle with making, or are there any decisions that you wish you would have made earlier to avoid an outcome that has since come to fruition? I'm not looking for advice because even I don't know what I want to do and I put off decision making until the last possible day I can. But I was just wondering if anyone felt the same way I do right now. Indecisive. Maybe it's my age? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 i wish i had never started buying vinyl lonesomexloveus, BuzzersonKillwell, smash2pieces and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futures Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I've thought about the same type of thing as you are describing. I (foolishly?) went to Art School. I had a blast while I was there, but since graduating (2010) I've yet to figure out a way to make a living doing what I went to school for. So I'm sitting at a desk in an Engineering firm at the moment. Needless to say, I sit here and think about why I made the decisions I did to get me to this position. I'm not sure I would've been able to do anything different, though. I'm not necessarily "good" at anything that would have gotten me accepted into any other type of program. With that said, there are plenty of people who are not necessarily "good" at what I have a degree in, and didn't go to college for it, yet they have found a way to make a living doing just that. It's so frustrating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 OK so I am about to get my Phd in Industrial Engineering so if you think I'm biased, fine. You see those stories pop up on yahoo every once in a while about "people who are happiest with their career choices" and similar topics. The connecting thread is always the same -- the more math and science involved in your field, the happier you are with it. In addition to paying well and being in high demand, I once read one that was a little more abstract stating that "engineers feel like they are in control of the world. They understand how and why technology works, vs. feeling like they are slaves to it". Don't take that in any way to mean that musicians, artists, communications majors, etc. made bad life choices. Who am I to say to Bruce Springsteen "you shoulda been a chemist". Any individual situation can be different. The overall population numbers tend to speak for themselves, though -- I always try and recommend people go for the most technical field that they feel they can handle if they ask me for my advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbruise Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Life decisions, I'm full of bad ones, and some great ones. Education wise, I have very little schooling done, I'm determined to finish though. It's just not something I'm completely interested in, and I feel that it's a joke that its a necessity to get by. I understand why though. Plus I get payed to go to school, so I kind of do it for the money. But as far as money is concerned, I don't really believe that I need to become a chemist or an engineer to make enough money so that I'm happy. The field I'm in now, doesn't really pay that great, it does but nothing I could support a family on. But its very rewarding, and it's something I never saw myself doing, ever. So it's a challenge, and something new. I feel good about it, but I also don't want to do it for the rest of my life. I was going for my BA in IT, but the more I thought about it, the more I didn't want to get stuck being an office IT guy. So, I'm thinking of other options, possibly web design or business. Business, I wouldn't be too thrilled about, but I could see myself excelling in that general field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 OK so I am about to get my Phd in Industrial Engineering so if you think I'm biased, fine. You see those stories pop up on yahoo every once in a while about "people who are happiest with their career choices" and similar topics. The connecting thread is always the same -- the more math and science involved in your field, the happier you are with it. In addition to paying well and being in high demand, I once read one that was a little more abstract stating that "engineers feel like they are in control of the world. They understand how and why technology works, vs. feeling like they are slaves to it". Don't take that in any way to mean that musicians, artists, communications majors, etc. made bad life choices. Who am I to say to Bruce Springsteen "you shoulda been a chemist". Any individual situation can be different. The overall population numbers tend to speak for themselves, though -- I always try and recommend people go for the most technical field that they feel they can handle if they ask me for my advice. i'm an engineer and i hate myself and everything i do. i don't feel "in control" of anything. It's just an office job, a means to some end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 i'm an engineer and i hate myself and everything i do. i don't feel "in control" of anything. It's just an office job, a means to some end. Well I was talking about population level trends. There are going to be engineers who hate their life, musicians who play for tips on the street and love their life, and high school dropouts singing "boats and hos" on a yacht in the Caribbean. I do believe in the overall trend, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Where do you work and what do you do more specifically? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I've thought about the same type of thing as you are describing. I (foolishly?) went to Art School. I had a blast while I was there, but since graduating (2010) I've yet to figure out a way to make a living doing what I went to school for. So I'm sitting at a desk in an Engineering firm at the moment. Needless to say, I sit here and think about why I made the decisions I did to get me to this position. I'm not sure I would've been able to do anything different, though. I'm not necessarily "good" at anything that would have gotten me accepted into any other type of program. With that said, there are plenty of people who are not necessarily "good" at what I have a degree in, and didn't go to college for it, yet they have found a way to make a living doing just that. It's so frustrating. i wish i went to an actual art school where i would have had people with real talent around me challenging me. instead i went to a community college where i had decent guidance, and a state school turned university that did less for me than high school did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattisr1984 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 i'm an engineer and i hate myself and everything i do. i don't feel "in control" of anything. It's just an office job, a means to some end. i laughed. with you. not at you. to the OP: i believe carrying as little debt as humanly possible is the only way to live. im currently carrying a mortgage and that is it. you have to look at yourself as a business. your student loan debt is not unlike someone taking a loan to start a business. its true when "they" say that youre investing in yourself - but the people who tell you that dont want youto consider the downside. its all upside for them - and why wouldnt it be? they reap the real benefit of it and you're on the hook for it. but in reality, whats the return on that investment for you? is it guaranteed? personally, i find very little in life is guaranteed. as they say, life is what happens to you while you were busy making other plans. turnstiles and lonesomexloveus 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 i also wonder what would have happened if i never took my ex back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emptyhanded Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I'm in my second year of veterinary school now, and I have to decide now how I'm going to spend my last years. I want to work with wildlife, especially aquatics/marine mammals, but those jobs close to impossible to land. I know in all reality I'll end up doing a dog/cat practice while seeing exotic pets as well, but I really have no desire to deal with clients and everything. I have no idea if I should get a lot of experience doing what I really want to do by working at zoos/aquariums/pathology labs and pigeon holing myself, or just take more of the elective rotations here at the hospital to excel at the general practitioner job I'll probably end up with. I hate to cut myself short, but I don't want to screw myself over either. and since loans were brought up, I know I'm pretty much fucked financially, so that doesn't help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Where do you work and what do you do more specifically? Just curious. i'm an electrical engineer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnstiles Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 i laughed. with you. not at you. to the OP: i believe carrying as little debt as humanly possible is the only way to live. im currently carrying a mortgage and that is it. you have to look at yourself as a business. your student loan debt is not unlike someone taking a loan to start a business. its true when "they" say that youre investing in yourself - but the people who tell you that dont want youto consider the downside. its all upside for them - and why wouldnt it be? they reap the real benefit of it and you're on the hook for it. but in reality, whats the return on that investment for you? is it guaranteed? personally, i find very little in life is guaranteed. as they say, life is what happens to you while you were busy making other plans. Debt fucking scares me immensely. That's why 64k for a Master's in School Counseling doesn't seem like such a bright idea if I'm paying my own way the whole time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonesomexloveus Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 OK so I am about to get my Phd in Industrial Engineering so if you think I'm biased, fine. You see those stories pop up on yahoo every once in a while about "people who are happiest with their career choices" and similar topics. The connecting thread is always the same -- the more math and science involved in your field, the happier you are with it. In addition to paying well and being in high demand, I once read one that was a little more abstract stating that "engineers feel like they are in control of the world. They understand how and why technology works, vs. feeling like they are slaves to it". Don't take that in any way to mean that musicians, artists, communications majors, etc. made bad life choices. Who am I to say to Bruce Springsteen "you shoulda been a chemist". Any individual situation can be different. The overall population numbers tend to speak for themselves, though -- I always try and recommend people go for the most technical field that they feel they can handle if they ask me for my advice. i can't stand math, and i switched my major to fine art (LOL) after a year and a half of being a biology major. it's not as weird as it seems; i was an art minor and wanted to do biological illustration. however, that field is shrinking and extremely hard to get into so i changed my mind after talking to someone who had been in that field but had his work completely dry up. not everyone is cut out for a technical field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonesomexloveus Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I'm in my second year of veterinary school now, and I have to decide now how I'm going to spend my last years. I want to work with wildlife, especially aquatics/marine mammals, but those jobs close to impossible to land. I know in all reality I'll end up doing a dog/cat practice while seeing exotic pets as well, but I really have no desire to deal with clients and everything. I have no idea if I should get a lot of experience doing what I really want to do by working at zoos/aquariums/pathology labs and pigeon holing myself, or just take more of the elective rotations here at the hospital to excel at the general practitioner job I'll probably end up with. I hate to cut myself short, but I don't want to screw myself over either. and since loans were brought up, I know I'm pretty much fucked financially, so that doesn't help. my best friend's fiance graduated from UPenn vet school and is currently doing a residency for shelter medicine at Cornell. I think he said she'll have somewhere around $250,000 in debt by the time she's done, and as you probably know, shelter medicine is one of the lowest paying branches of pet meds. it's like working for the DA if you're an attorney. He has his phD in mechanical engineering from Harvard and is doing his post doc work at Cornell. He essentially got paid to get his doctorate, so he doesn't have any debt, but he spent 5 years working on tiny killer flying robots for the DoD and is trying to atone for his sins by working with legos and autistic children. He always jokes that theyre going to be the most educated poor couple on the planet. his fiance posted this depressing article to facebook the other day: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/business/high-debt-and-falling-demand-trap-new-veterinarians.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1& Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batman Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 its tough sometimes to know if the path you're taking is the right one. i ended up going to grad school for my masters instead of med school and haven't looked back. i'm an analytical chemist at a great company now and am loving it. i feel like pretty much anyone could do some of the routine technician work, but they require a bachelors in chemistry just for those positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 i laughed. with you. not at you. to the OP: i believe carrying as little debt as humanly possible is the only way to live. im currently carrying a mortgage and that is it. you have to look at yourself as a business. your student loan debt is not unlike someone taking a loan to start a business. its true when "they" say that youre investing in yourself - but the people who tell you that dont want youto consider the downside. its all upside for them - and why wouldnt it be? they reap the real benefit of it and you're on the hook for it. but in reality, whats the return on that investment for you? is it guaranteed? personally, i find very little in life is guaranteed. as they say, life is what happens to you while you were busy making other plans. Not sure what the going rate on student loans is but they are generally considered OK as long as they don't get out of control and there is a prospect of a decent job when you get out. Every average college student who does things right should be able to avoid the $100k student loan. They should be working while in school and not taking 5-6 years to graduate. If you do things right there is no reason you can't get a good degree with $20 or $30k in debt when you finish, which is peanuts over a career. You will have a million dollars come in and out of your hands. Not trying to be a contrarian. I agree with your point. I also think that if done right, it's a great investment in yourself. In general: 4% or lower interest loans -- good debt. Not much more than inflation and the interest doesn't kill you: This would mostly be mortgage debt. 5% to maybe 8% loans -- OK. You don't want to carry them long term but if you need them and attack them quick, they don't set your life back 9% and higher loans -- shit. Stay away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 not everyone is cut out for a technical field. Agreed. I just believe in encouraging them to try if they can or are on the borderline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 god. student loans. I worked my ass off and have none... nothing. I owe nothing and it feels great. I have a career in a field that I’m passionate about. that’s pretty okay with me. Back to the money issue though, I know quite a few people who just keep taking their refund checks, taking the loans, with no scope of how this will effect them in the future. One of my friends has over 80,000 in loans. her boyfriend has about 35,000. She has constant anxiety about it. I don’t know if you are essentially talking about wondering ‘what-if’ but, I kind of do. I mostly think about the little decisions that had a huge impact on my life. Like how you can be in a certain place at a certain time and have a chance meeting with a person who will change your entire life. blows my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emptyhanded Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 my best friend's fiance graduated from UPenn vet school and is currently doing a residency for shelter medicine at Cornell. I think he said she'll have somewhere around $250,000 in debt by the time she's done, and as you probably know, shelter medicine is one of the lowest paying branches of pet meds. it's like working for the DA if you're an attorney. He has his phD in mechanical engineering from Harvard and is doing his post doc work at Cornell. He essentially got paid to get his doctorate, so he doesn't have any debt, but he spent 5 years working on tiny killer flying robots for the DoD and is trying to atone for his sins by working with legos and autistic children. He always jokes that theyre going to be the most educated poor couple on the planet. his fiance posted this depressing article to facebook the other day: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/business/high-debt-and-falling-demand-trap-new-veterinarians.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1& Yea I saw this article, its pretty depressing. Even with my scholarship I pay way too much for Penn. Doing wildlife/exotics (not including pets) pays about the same as shelter medicine, if not less most of the time, which is pretty hard to imagine. It's all fun now, but leaving here with close to 300k is debt is already enough to make me hate my life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Yea I saw this article, its pretty depressing. Even with my scholarship I pay way too much for Penn. Doing wildlife/exotics (not including pets) pays about the same as shelter medicine, if not less most of the time, which is pretty hard to imagine. It's all fun now, but leaving here with close to 300k is debt is already enough to make me hate my life. What do you expect to make when you graduate? $300k in loans is a LOT of money but if you are set up to make 6 figures for the rest of your life, it will pay off. You have 30 years of work ahead of you... $300k to get a $50k job is obviously not a good tradeoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglebowski Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 What do you expect to make when you graduate? $300k in loans is a LOT of money but if you are set up to make 6 figures for the rest of your life, it will pay off. You have 30 years of work ahead of you... $300k to get a $50k job is obviously not a good tradeoff. Sorry. Posted without reading that article. I would have assumed a vet from a prestigious school would pull in close to 6 figures. I think of them as pretty much the same as medical doctors. Hope you get the high end of the pay spectrum and love what you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emptyhanded Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Sorry. Posted without reading that article. I would have assumed a vet from a prestigious school would pull in close to 6 figures. I think of them as pretty much the same as medical doctors. Hope you get the high end of the pay spectrum and love what you do. Yea the problem is just saying I went Penn really doesn't mean much outside of undergrad (unless you're a horse person I guess). And you mentioned MD's, its hard because no one wants to pay a vet the same. I mean, I totally understand it, but I don't know how schools can keep raising tuition knowing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonesomexloveus Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 it's such bullshit that vets get paid so much less than MDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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